What you think about the 325 WSM as an ELK and/or Moose Load?

Perfect. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The only WSM that I would buy and I think makes good sense for elk. But its not "better" than the 338 win may like the marketing says, its still just about perfect for elk.

Yep you should have plenty 'o poop for elk and mooses. Premium bullets will help any cartridge do it's best. The selection of good 8mm boolits is a little skimpy compared to other diameters, but you should find something that works.

BTW, I thought I read on one of these threads that you were picking up your 325 today. What format did you go with?

Totally unable to take anything larger than coyotes or maybe small whitetail deer. LOL

Purchased Yesterday....

Shot my Win70 Ultimate Shadow 325 WSM this morning. I only fired four rounds but it was nice with less than expected recoil. Matter of fact...It didn't feel much different than my 270 WSM.

I am eager to get back out to the range, zero it in and see how it is grouping at 200 yards.

I've often thought about rebarreling my 300WSM to 325 and using 200gr bullets for that same reason of not more recoil and a heavier bullet (200's can be hard to squeeze in on top of the powder for a TSX.

Spot

Make no mistake, it's not as good as a .338, but most ANY .325/8mm is a great Elk, moose, or bear round. I'm not a fan of the short mags. but, if you like it and it shoots good, have fun with it.

Gang....Let me be real clear here....No one is slamming any of the traditional loads.... If I already had a 338WM I would not have purchased the 325. I needed to fill a gap in my gun selection and I have liked what the writers have said about the 325. Case in point...since I own a 30'06, I will not be purchasing a 300WSM. I did not have a light/medium gun, so I purchased the 270WSM. One of these days I hope to go after some of the BIG BOYS up North...the Kodiacs...when I do that, I will buy a 375 H&H. I already own a very nice Bench/Prairie Dog gun in a .223....so I won't be buying the .223 WSSM. I am simply buying the guns I need and that I want. Honestly though....I would like to try out the 243 or 25 WSSM.

Cutting to the chase, I bet my 325WSM will kill an Elk just as good as anyone's 338WM.

Nobody wants you guys to toss your Win Mags and Rem Mags to the Pawn Dealer....But don't critize the purchasing of a WSM when someone needs a gun in a particular caliber slot.

By the way, I have never heard anyone say it is better than the 338WM...It is similiar, but different. I do like the shorter, quicker, lighter action.

Double posted for some reason....

Now that the manufacturers are coming out with more bullets for it, I believe it scratches an itch!!

Paired with a 180 or 200 grain TSX, amongst others, it'll do it nicely!

I enjoy the 300WSM because of what Kimber has done with the 8400's and Montana's. Less weight in a high performance package makes sense for my hunting. A seven pound Kimber Montana in a 300WSM is a lighter carry. A six pound Montana in a 7mm-08 is even better. Again for my purposes I get a high performance cartridge in a lighter package. Makes sense to me. No ill will to the standard calibers - I have plenty myself.

No, the 325 WSM is not a 338 Win Mag and never will be quite as good for ELK, Moose, Caribou, etc. The 325 is a fine cartridge in its own right, but there hasn't been a round produced yet that is as good as the 338 Win Mag for those larger deer species. I own a 325 WSM and my main concern is "Will it survive in the long run?" With Winchester going tits up and Remington obviously bailing out on part of its SAUM line; what is the long run stability of the short mags overall? Also, who will build the 325 WSM other than Browning? The higher priced guns and the custom gun makers cannot keep these calibers viable in the marketplace. Only the average gun buyer purchasing these calibers from major "popular priced" gun manufacturers will enable these rounds to survive. There seems to a lot of uncertainties down the road for the short mags. Just my 2 cents.

You're right. The 325 is better than the 338 for killing elk.
You're right. The 325 is not as good as the 338 for elk.
We're all correct which ever we decide because we see the same world in a different way. I like light rifles with less recoil. Am I wrong? You like heavy rifles and dont mind the extra recoil. Are you wrong?
If my muscles are tired after a long hike, and I flinch at the recoil from a 338, will it kill my elk better than a lighter 325?
Just my $.02.
Just glad to have so many choices to argue over.

I think it is an awesome cartridge that is often maligned due to it having WSM after the caliber. It will take any north american game there is..................

Huntr

The only WSM that interests me thats for sure. My next rifle will be either that or 338WM I think. So far, I have to admit the 30-06 (and many other cartridges) have done fine for me on both Deer and Elk. But I have to agree with anyone that says the 338WM is the quintessential Elk round. Personally I have had excellent results with 300WM,30-06 7mm, 270, 270WSM and finally full circle back to the 30-06. All my Elk kills have been pretty much bang floppers with all of them, but the shots were well placed (except with one risky neck shot with the 270WSM loaded with failsafes, 140Gr.-still a bang-flopper). I have long since gotten over my magnum stage and am happy to be armed with the 100 year old wonder gun again. Right now I'm down toa 2 gun battery and both are 30-06's (I know boooooring). 30-06 was was kind of like when man invented the wheel-it can be made out of different materials but you can't change the shape.

Took the 325 back to the range today and shot up a box. I'll tell you something....the perceived recoil of the 325 is much less than the 338 and my rig is a Ultimate Shadow at about 6lbs 12 ounces, before scope. I am very accurate with this rifle...something I could not do with a 338. By the end of the box, I was punching tight little holes and enjoying the shooting. Not sure how many 338 owners will tell you they like to go to the range and shoot 20-40 rounds. Everyone I know who owns a 338 tell me, I love my gun, but it beats the hell out of me.

And I will agree with some above....the 338 is better....it is better at 200 yards and closer. But if you start looking at the performance, the 325 at 200, 300 and 400 yards, it is every bit as hard hitting as the 338 and it is flatter. The trajectory is more like the 300 Win Mag. It may not be the best Alaska rig, but I think it is superior to the 338 in the upper 48.

I gotta tell you...if I was hunting Browns...I would prefer the 338. But honestly, since I have a 270WSM and a 325WSM, my Brown Bear rig will be a 375H&H.

Also, I swung by Sportsman Warehouse this morning, to pick up some more .223 for my Model 12. While there I looked for another box of 325. I could see the labels on the shelves where the boxes should be, but...no boxes.... About that time the store manager walked down the isle. I asked him about the 325 ammo....he said....it goes sooo fast...I can't keep it on the shelves. I asked him about the 325 gun sales. He said they get a 325 in about every two weeks and it is gone in less than two days. He said that 338 sales are really slowing down with the 325 being offered.

Honestly, I think the 325 is here to stay.

Of the WSM's that will stay....I think they all will (270, 300 & 325)except the 7mm, which they screwed up...after the fact.

By the way, I will shoot another box next weekend and I will post the targets for your viewing pleasure.

IF your .325 kicks far less than a .338 Win Mag , it's probably because your loads aren't shooting nearly as fast as you think they are. Do you own (or have owned a .338 Magnum)? IMO - the recoil of the .338 Winchester Magnum is often overstated. The .325 WSM should generate about 29 ft \ lbs of recoil and hte .338 Win Mag will produced about 35 ft \lbs. Neither one is punishing, but far more than say a .270 Winchester which has about 16 ft\lbs of recoil.

Checking Barnes bullets web site, the 185g .338 TSX has a higher Ballistic Coefficent than either the 180g or 200g .323 TSX. So, not only will it start off 200 fps faster, it will be flatter and retain considerably more energy. The 225g .338 Accbond's BC smashes the BC of the 200g .323 Accubond.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/prodtsx_new2006.php
http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=11&b=5&s=3

I also noticed there is a serious descrepency in the BC of the 200g .323 Accbond between Nolser and Winchester.

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=S325WSMCT&cart=MzI1IFdTTQ==

I am sure the .325 will serve you well, but it's not a .338 Magnum. Doesn't matter what range you are at. Factory ballistic charts are often misleading and sometimes flat out wrong.

I stated in an earlier post that I owned one of each of these calibers. Yes, I do feel the 338WM a tad more when on the bench. But firing from the shoulder, I can discern very little difference in recoil. My 338WM is a Remington 700 customized with a Lilja barrel, Jewell trigger, Borden Rimrock stock and has a S&B 3X12X50 scope w/#9 reticle. I have found this rig to be super accurate with 225 gr. Northforks, a pleasure to shoot and extremely deadly on elk. I like my 325WSM a lot, but I just think I set for a long time with the 338WM.

The .325 WSM is a sufficient elk or moose round. These animals have been cleanly killed by much lesser (meaning either smaller in diameter or less energy) cartridges. Three things remain: bullet placement, bullet construction, and effective range.

Personally, I think a Browning BLR (pistol grip style) in .325 WSM will make perhaps the most perfect mixed country elk rifle there ever was. Light, quick handling rifle with lots of wampus. Nice timber or open country gun. I'm gonna have to buy one myself.

2 weeks ago I took a young bull at 635 yds. with my model 70 325 WSM using 180 silvertips.

I'd rather shoot my 375 H&H from the bench than my Feather weight M70 325 with full house 220 loads. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Man where are these bullet proof elk located that can only be shot with a 338? You guys are picking nits IMO... There isn't a hill of beans diffrence between a 338 and a 325. Thats why I have a 338-06 instead. :P

This thread would not be complete without at least one person chiming in for the 35 Whelen. Here's a 200 grain TSX recovered from dry newspaper and chronographed at 2750 fps.

I thought the .325 was born dead on arrival - not that I thought it was a bad cartridge - because like all the WSMs, it does nothing that some other cartridge has not already been doing.
I believe I was quite wrong; apparently just their dimensions, ballistics notwithstanding, make them different enough that they are selling well.
I think it'd do well for elk or moose given the right bullet; I did/do object to the horse droppings marketing though that tried to show it as superior to the .338 Win mag.
In fact, I've been contemplating a NULA in .300 WSM.

Sure , the 325 will work , but what does it really offer that the 300 WSM shooting 180 s or 200 s doesn't ??

An extra 15 thousands in diameter is just not going to make much of a difference...........

I have to take some exception here. I apoligize as I am not addressing the 325wsm. I agree that the 325wsm may not be as good as a 338 win for elk, caribou,moose,bear. On the other hand I will disagree that the 8mm Remington Mag, isnt as good. We could discuss sectional density ya da ya da yada, all day long. Unless you began to go bigger than 250 grain bullets which is about the most for the 8mm Mag. I know know one loads a 250 grain bullet for it. I have some blue mountain 235 grainers, some hawk 250 grainers and you can get a couple other high end manufactures in 250 grainers. Push those out at 2800 feet a second and you beat the 338 and match the 340 Weatherby. You can drop down to 180 grain ballistic tips and really reach out. Granted ballistic tips not my favorite bullet but my sheep never new it. So I live in Alaska and carry an 8 mm Mag. I have owned a 338 Lapua and a 338 win mag. Both great cartridges. You place your shot right and they wont know the differance.

With the exception of bullet selection, I think the 325 WSM is a better all-around hunting rifle in the lower 48 than the 338 Win Mag.

OK start the flames but at least consider why I'm starting to think that. First of all I've allways been a 338 Win Mag fan I've had several and still have a couple including a pretty decent French Walnut Stocked Custom Rifle. I shot my first Elk with a 338 Win Mag.
I think either Caliber is more than adequate power wise for any game in the lower 48 States, but the 338 Win mag seems to be a little too much. I think that in a lot of deer hunting camps you show up with a 338 and they'll tease you about the cannon you are using (been there, done that). Show up with a 325 and to me it at least sounds more reasonable.
The 325 WSM is available in a lot handier rifle than you can find off the shelf in a 338. A Kimber Montana or even a A-Bolt is a lot more light and carriable than any 338 Win Mag I can think of. You can get a 325 in a heavier rifle but you can't get the 338 in a lighter one.
My biggest gripe with the 338 Win Mag is the poor consistancy you will find in factory brass. I have a Case Micrometer in 338 Win Mag and measuring a bunch of cases revealed some startling inconsistancies. Yes you can fire-form your 338 and be OK from there but why should you have to fireform brass in a factory Caliber? The only centerfire rifle caliber I've ever had misfires with is the 338 Win mag, and I've had it happen with 4 of them! I think the problems were probably all due to badly headspaced brass. The 325 WSM being new has fresh highly consistant brass for it. I also think the 325 WSM is going to prove to be a more accurate round than the 338 even with good brass in the 338. The WSM's are more efficient and efficiency is condusive to better accuracy.
The 325 is also better all around because of it's lighter recoil. Now in perspective I've only had one 325 and closer to double digits of 338 Win Mags but my Kimber Montana 325 is one of the lightest available, and almost all 338's are much heavier. My Montana is definately easier to shoot than any of my 338's.
Maybe in Africa on heavier game the 338 with 250gr bullets will pull away from the 325, but here in America my light, accurate and easy to shoot 325 is going hunting with me next time.......................DJ

I am really intrigued by the idea of a 325WSM in the Kimber Montana for elk. Most of the country where I hunt elk is pretty rough going and not very open. Lots of hiking and mostly close to medium range shots possible.

You're not saying that you'd rather hike through the rough going with a 10 1/2lb rifle instead of a 6 1/2lb rifle are you? I'm also thinking a lighter and shorter rifle is going to be better for quick close-in shots.............DJ

Exactly!!:)
My favorite elk gun is a 340wby accumark, I love the rifle, but it weighs close to 11 lbs all up. So yeah, 6 1/2 lbs looks pretty good sometimes.

Hello All,

The 338 or the 325? Niether one is magic. They are both more than capable of taking any north american game including elk.

Get the one YOU want and don't look back. If you buy the one somone else wants you may always wish you had the other and that is no fun. If you do not reload I would say the 325 may be a problem as the 8mm Rem mag is at this point in time for the nonreloader.

8mmwapiti

WH,

I have no first hand experience with Elk or Moose, but I can tell you that with 200 gr. factory Accubond loads it will put down a Kamchatka Brown Bear.

Mike

Mike, Would you mind giving the details please? I'd really like to hear about the brown bear and how the 200gr Accubond worked - it shoots well in my gun............DJ

DJ,

I think you'll find everything you want to know here. Kamchatka Bear Hunt

It shoots well out of my rifle too. In fact after toying around with many Barnes X loads I could not get them to shoot anywhere close to what the 200 gr. Accubonds would do. Other than the fact I made a couple of poor shots, when I took a rest and and nailed him in the boiler room he went 100 yards downhill and piled up. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask.

Mike

does it do anything a .338 Win does not or can't do? If not, why would you want one?

A Jeff Cooper might have said, it is an answer to an unasked question..

Here's what it does that a 338 Win Mag won't do:




It shoots like that with 4 different loads including a factory load in a 6 1/4lb factory off the shelf rifle ! Go try and find a 338 Win Mag that light and shoots that well off the shelf (the Kimber 8400 LA will weigh a bit more <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.)....................DJ

[quote]With the exception of bullet selection, I think the 325 WSM is a better all-around hunting rifle in the lower 48 than the 338 Win Mag.




100% Right.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am not going to argue the merits of either caliber, but the Tikka T3 Lite is 6lbs 6 oz. in the 338. I say that is pretty lite.

I have only shot mine about 20 times (338) and I really like it.

Sactoller

Well I forgot that the Tikka was that light so maybe my point isn't valid as it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Tikka shot as well as my Montana. I would still prefer the CRF Montana but the Tikka costs about 1/2 as much, so I'll have to come up with something else............... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..............DJ

The Tikka does shoot well, out of the box. If I had my druthers, I like the feel of wood and the look of blue/wood...

I went with the SS but I really like the syn/blue Tikka, at least it has a little class! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sactoller

I SEE THE 325 AS BEING MORE COMPETITION FOR THE 30/06 RATHER THAN THE 338.THE 325 CAN BE HAD IN RIFLES AS LITE AS OR LITER THAN A 30/06.IF ANY ONE ASKED WHAT RIFLE THEY SHOULD GET AS THEIR FIRST I WOULD RECOMMEND A 30/06 OR A 325 AS THE FIRST CHOICE.WOULD ALSO MAKE A FINE SECOND RIFLE IF THE FIRST WAS A 30/06,270,ONE OF THE MANY 7MM'S OR SOME SORT OF .25 CAL.

That is good shooting, but my 338 does that well with 210's, and 250's....right at .6 for either...210's at 3000 fps and the 250's at 2600

I've been a big fan of the 338, I even spent a little time making one for myself:




But I've found the 338 Win Mag to be a pretty finicky round to load for. I've mentioned the problems with the brass etc.. The 338 is certainly an excellent round and capable of fine accuracy but I think that the 325 will prove to be a far more accurate round on average. Now I've had 8 or 9 different 338's and just the 1 325 so maybe by one 325 is more accurate than most, but all of the WSM's seem to shoot very well out of the box.
The Tikka lite may be the expection that proves the rule that on average a 325 WSM is a much lighter and handier rifle than your average 338 Win Mag.
I'm not going to give away my 338 Win Mags, but this year I took the 325 hunting....................DJ

What a beautiful stock on your rifle....I would take it hunting just on that alone...

The 338 is probably the least finicky of the belted mags. My rifle weighs in at 8 lbs even. Never seemed to have a problem with brass or accuracy338 Rifle

Nice looking rifle!

I despise the 338 Win mag...personal thing!