Hello all. I just found this forum. Looks like there is a lot of good information to be found, and I look forward to browsing. I'm planning on going elk hunting for the first time this coming fall, and I've narrowed my firearm search to he 30-06 and 300 win mag.

Initially, I was leaning toward the 300 to get a little more firepower. I also thought that I could use it for any future big game hunt, except for maybe grizzly. However, I'm now thinking I should go with the 30-06, because I won't be shooting past 300 yards.

Two questions. For shots within 300 yards, does the 300 win mag offer any advantage over the 30-06? And second, if I do go big game hunting for other animals (i.e., moose, caribou, bear), does the 300 offer any advantage, again, within 300 yards.

I appreciate the replies.

Welcome.

What rifle do you have now?

I have a .270. I want something a little bigger.

A 30-06 with a good bullet is more than adequate.

A .300 mag involves tradeoffs--the barrel is typically longer, there is more recoil, ammo costs more, they are louder, etc. Unless you plan on spending the trigger time to really master its capabilities, the tradeoffs may have little or no payoff.

30.06 same bullet as the 300 win mag with less speed which equals less recoil. You can put more rounds down range for trigger time and the ammunition will cost less.

Welcome.. I used my .30-06 for the first 10 years of my hunting career.. Killed much game with it, and still use it once in a while.. When I switched to the .300, I never looked back.. But I hunt a lot of very open country, and am able to shoot my .300 with out a problem.. My old one is on its third barrel..

If you are not going to shoot past 300 yards the 06 is fine.. But I filled several elk tags, when my 06 shooting buddies said that is way too far.. It was for the 06.. Probably the best trophy of my life was a bighorn ram.. I may have got it with the 06, but it was a sure thing with the .300..

But you have to be able to shoot the rifle to get in the practice you need.. I would suggest shooting one or a couple and see how it goes.. My pal wanted a .300 and couldn't decide between it and a 7mm mag. I let him shoot both, when he fired the 7 ok, when he fired the 300, he remarked,"Substantial difference!!!" He bought a 7..

Within 300 yards the primary advantage of the 300 WM is that it can shoot a heavier bullet better than a 30-06.

Other than that the 30-06 will work quite well for almost all purposes.

The 300 WM is my favorite elk cartridge but most of the elk I have taken with it could have been taken cleanly with a 30-06 as well.

Just go with a quality 150gr bullet in your 270 Win. , like a Nosler Partition, or a 130gr TTSX Barnes (150gr TSX won't stabilize in a standard 1-10" barrel twist that most 270s have).

Inside three hundred yards you'll never tell the difference on game from the 30.06.

Not a lot to be gained from the 300 mag. at those ranges other than recoil, and if you don't practice enough to master shooting the 300 mag. you may actually get worse results from poor bullet placement.

If you didn't already have the 270, I would have said get an .06 .

Just my .02 cents - and I've been shooting a 300 Win. mag since the 1970s....................

Good luck

^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^

The 30/06 and 270 are probably 1-2 with the local hunters. Lots of elk are killed every year with them.

A few use the 3oo Win mag & 300 WSM.

A site in days at the local range----locals show up the 30/06 or 270. Non-res come with magnums. Guess who has the flinch?

Well.....you don't need it but you sound like a 30/06 candidate.

I shot a 300 WSM for years. In the field, there's no practical difference between it and the 300 Mag. Last year I switched to a 30-06 to save a pound in weight. After shooting a bunch of elk with the 300 WSM, I can't think of a single one that I couldn't have shot just as well with a 30-06. The 300 Mag might get you 200 fps more than the 30-06 but unless you're shooting very long range, the difference is negligible. If you like, you can also shoot 165 gr bullets in the 30-06 for a good gain over a 270 and have plenty of power for elk.

I would like to add. Get a GOOD pair of hunting boots with the money. Then go to the gym & get on the stair climber. The better fit you are the better your hunt will be. IMO physical conditioning is way more important than a 270, 30/06 or 300 Win Mag.

1) No

and

2) No

Notice, I said I [/i]want[i] something bigger!

I agree. The gun is just one component, but the one I'm least familiar with. Where I live, we can't use rifles to deer hunt, so I have had no reason to have or shoot a 30 caliber rifle until now.

OK I get it

Then buy 300 and see how you like it.

I've used both. The 300 will recoil more and provide additional speed, shoot flatter (depending on your loads),and the rifle will be heavier. If you try to put together a 300 that is as light as a 30/06 you will get slapped around.

Some days it will be hard to tell which one kills better.

I have used the cartridge on some bull elk to over 400yards and it is a great killer.

Used the 30/06 out to about 300 yards. Nothing got away.

When I was in that mode I found a 270 and a 300 win mag a great combo. Many of my friends still use it.

A 30/06 is a great womans rifle. Not too much recoil.

Get the '06

Spyder if you want a "step" up all around big game cartridge, look at the 338 Win Mag?

No problem with the 270 either. Many tuck loads of elk killed through the years. Good bullets in the 270 will work fine. If you need something else, buy a nice light weight 30-06. The last 2 elk I killed were with 7mm/08. The 300's kill on one and cripple on the other. Also, heavier and longer barrels.

Thats what I would look at if I already had a 270

I have both. If I were to have only one, it would be the 30-06.
Marketers will dazzle you with the numbers at every opportunity. Their job is to sell things.
The truth is more simple. A 30-06 will drive a 180 grain bullet at around 2800 FPS.. Most 300s will drive the same bullet at about 3050 to 3100 FPS.

But if we look at the down range velocity and see where the 300 magnum's bullet is at at about 2800, we see it is at about 125 to 140 yards.

So it's perfectly safe to say a 300 is the same as a 30-06 with with an added 125 yards of "range".

For that extra 125 of range you give up 2 rounds in the mag, and you add 2" or 4" to the barrel, and you increase the recoil about 30% as well as paying more per round to practice.

So those are the facts without any loyalty or "religious devotion" to either.

If the gain of an extra 125 yards is worth it to you, you need not apologize to anyone for your choice.

If the shorter rifle with 2 more rounds in it, with better bore life, that is cheaper to fire is more to your liking, buy it.

You need not apologize to anyone for your choice if it's the 06 either.

I have never had a problem killing elk with my 270s or a 30-06, or my 308, or my 8MM Mauser, or my 300 or my 375H&H.

I Love my 300s too. However I would have been about as happy with a 30-06 in every case I have shot anything with the 300s

The longest kill I ever made on an elk was with a 270.

It's really more about (a) your marksmanship and (B) what type of bullet you shoot.

What rifle you shoot it from is in about "15th place" in importance, judging from my experience. (43 years of elk hunting and guiding hunters)

You summed it up yourself as well as it can be said.
I want something a little bigger.

Get what you want. You'll be happiest that way.

I've killed a couple of elk...

1). Use your 270. I have, it's ideal.

2). Take the money you would have put into a new rifle and buy the very best binoculars you can afford. Then spend a bit more.

That about sums it up right there.. Anymore question?

Before or after the sex change...

I looked at the 338. My fear is developing a flinch, and being able to shoot enough to get proficient. I am mainly a shotgun shooter. Although, 12 gauge slugs pack a good punch, as to 3 1/2 inch turkey loads.

What is the recoil comparison of the 30-06, 300 WM, and 338?

In terms of recoil, I find the 300Mag to be the most unpleasant. The only reason to own one is big bullets (180 gr +) going fast. The recoil seems fast and sharp. I could probably load my .338 up to unpleasant levels with 250 gr bullets, but find the 210 gr kill just fine. The 30-06 is the most accessible of the three.

Of course the stock design and how it fits you makes a huge difference.

THIS, in spades. You can use your optics every weekend, high end glass will boost your spotting and confidence and you'll never regret the huge hole in your wallet.

Or so I like to tell myself...

Buy the .30/06 and go kill elk with it.

I like your style.

When shooting at game, there is no difference, at least none that you'll notice.

From the bench, I can compare a 30-06 and a 300 WSM which is almost identical to the 300 WM. I've never had a need to shoot or hunt with a 338. I can shoot 40 or 50 rounds from a 30-06 with no problem. With a PAST pad, I can do the same with the 300 WSM. Without the PAST, I'm only good for about 20 rounds before my shoulder starts hurting. Both rifles have almost identical Limbsaver butt pads. The 300 WSM weighs about 1lb more than the '06.

I have a .30-06 and harvested a lot of meat with it.

I also have a Weatherby in 300 wthby mag. It's still new. Never fired. Never even had a scope mounted on it. Just sits in the safe. Why ? Because someone convinced me that it was much better than a .30-06.

Ammo- $80.00 a box
Recoil- Substantially more.
Noise- Overly Excessive... and I don't need to further damage my hearing (Thanks Three Dog Night and Ted Nugent).

As for larger game, ie: bears, moose etc. If you're going to a larger caliber, go to a .338 or .375 of some flavor. I currently have a .338 win mag. It seems to me that my .338 WM has more recoil than the trusty old .375 H&H. And if you ever decide to go to Africa for dangerous game, you'll already have a .375 H&H. Just mu humble opinion.

Last, but not least... SHOT PLACEMENT... SHOT PLACEMENT... SHOT PLACEMENT

A well placed and ethical shot is far better that a poor shot with a heavy magnum. So, as others have stated, if you're recoil sensitive, shoot the .270 or .30-06.

Jeff

Your .270 Win will kill elk as well as anything inside 500yds.

That may not be the answer you want to justify a new gun but spend the $$ on .270 Win ammo and cool optics and you will be way ahead.

You will also have more fun.



Well many of us want to offer good advice to a novice elk hunter.

Just Sayin.

I agree with John Burns. If you truly are going to limit yourself to 300 or 400 yards, bullet selection in the 270 is all you need. A 270 is .277 diameter bullet inch in a slightly bigger case along the neck from a 3006. The 3006 and 300 mag bullet measure .308 inch. So you are looking at a meplat difference of 11 percent. A 150 grain 270 bullet will give you ample Whomp to match a 30 caliber bullet all day long at under 400 yards. I look 4 a sectional density of .25 and twice the foot pounds on impact of the animals weight. I.E. 1500 foot pounds. If you go the monolithic bullet option I am sure the 243 elk slayers will soon chime in. Terminal ballistic research is a great web sight to study and review in my opinion. If I wanted to get another rifle to throw a whoop ass close range as you speak , that would perhaps out shine a 270 I would suggest a 45 70 ruger. A 450 marlin, a 9.3 x 64, or a bigger bore belted magnum. A classic Elmer Keith versus Jack O Conner debate. But in this new day and age the Barnes 243 elk slayers may chime in. Good luck with your hunt!

At only 300 yards there are dozens of cartridges that will work just fine including the 270 you have. The 300 mags don't start showing any advantage until you start taking 500+ yard shots. You're 270 or a 30-06 would still be good out to around 500.

A 30-06 has been my primary hunting rifle for over 40 years, but if I owned a 270 I'd be just as happy. There isn't enough difference in the 2 to justify owning both.

If you simply must buy another rifle I'd suggest 300 WSM over 300 WM. With the same bullet weights it is 200-250 fps faster than 30-06 and 50-75 fps slower than 300 WM. In equal weight rifles recoil is almost exactly 1/2 way between 30-06 and 300 WM. With the 300 WSM burning 10-12 gr less powder combined with slightly less velocity it makes it noticeably less harsh in recoil.

In my rifles, with my loads, shooting 180 gr bullets my 30-06 generates about 20 ft lbs recoil, a 300 WM about 28 ft lbs and my 300 WSM about 24 ft lbs. I simply don't notice the 4 additional ft lbs of recoil between 30-06 and 300 WSM. And while I can tolerate it, I do notice the additional 8 ft lbs between 30-06 and 300 WM.

No game animal will ever notice the bullet impacting 50 fps slower.

Do what you want, but if I had a 270 that I liked and if it shot well I'd just buy or load quality 150 gr bullets for it and spend the money on something else.

My thought in moving away from the 270 is that it may not be enough if the shot isn't perfectly broadside. i.e., the 30-06 or 300 would still be lethal if the elk is quartering a little. Is my thinking misguided?

Yup.
A Nosler Partition,Swift A-Frame or Barnes X from a .270 will still penetrate to the vitals and still kill the elk.

A .30 caliber will just make a bigger hole going through.

The ability of people to NOT stay on topic on the Campfire is legendary. The choice was between a 30-06 and a 300 Win.

Go for the 30-06, it is magic. There seems to be the similar magic with a 257 Roberts and it's ability to kill. A 25-06 has more energy, but somehow the Roberts just seems to be the perfect balance and kills reliably. And so it is with the 30-06, it just plain kills big game.

There is a reason that most big game cartridges are compared to a 30-06.

Your current 270 is fine. Now I am a looney and have all 3 of the rounds the OP mentioned, along with a few more, like I said I am a rifle looney!

If I was looking to compliment a 270 and was considering the OP's choices of the 06 or the 300, I would go for the 300. The 300 can do everything the 06 can do and more and can easily be loaded down to 06 performance and recoil level, but the opposite is not true, the 06 cannot produce 300 ballistics.

The 06 is a GREAT round no doubt, but just is not that much of a step above the 270. The 300 can provide a worthwhile bump IMO.

9.3 x 62, 8 mm 06, 35 Wheelen. All based on the 06 case ? All present more raking close range point blank thump do they not? A 1895 marlin, good for leftys and left eye dominant or right handed people, good with iron sights. 45 70 or triple 4. 358 Winchester in a BLR take down action, stash it in the pack mule? How about sell the 270 and buy a 280?

JMR40,

I disagree strongly that "there isn't enough difference" between the .270 and .30-06 to justify owning both. If somebody doesn't own both, their Campfire comparisons lack the EMF (Essential Minutiae Factor) that lengthens elk-cartridge threads, some of the longest not just on the Campfire but Planet Cyberspace.

I suggest you have one of your hunting buddies give you a .270 Winchester cartridge, or if he's really cheap, sell you one. Then you can claim to "own a .270" and thus help keep these threads alive.

Well said mule deer! Well said.......but because they are so similar, one must not stop there! One step at a time ,one step at a time!

I've killed a few elk with my .270's myself

Save your money on a "new" rifle and get some good boots and a good pack/frame

Or.....invest in good to better optics that will help you the rest of your life

spyderman, These are the opinons of the author, and may not reflect a general consensus!!! The 30-06 is a fine cartridge. The 300 WM gives you the opportunity to shoot equal weight bullets slightly faster/flatter with more energy. If stepping up to a heavier bullet, you get more energy and penetration (with equal design bullets), with similar trajectories as those of the lighter 30-06 bullets. Do Not discount the .338 WM!!! With rifles of equal weight and stock design, the .338 WM recoil will be equal or slightly less than that of the .300 WM. There's "no substitute for cubic inches"! There are many great bullets out there for the .338, making it a legitament long range contender(I know you stated 300 yrds, but your qualifications may change). IMHO the .338 WM, is perhaps the "best" all around (standard commercial) big game cartridge. My wife's, "unbraked", 8 lb. 10 oz. (scoped, loaded, slung), pushing 225 TTSX's @ 2950 fps(not a tame load) .338 WM, gives similar trajectories as those of the .300 WM. It has been her "only" hunting rifle (for all of the big game available to us) since '95! If you use good shooting practices, you should have "zero" problems adapting to the .338WM (unless you have a shoulder injury, or other physical issue)!! memtb

Consider that Hornady's '06 Superformance ammo runs very near 300WM velocity. If you are a handloader, you need to push things pretty hard to do much better.
Net message: an '06 is seriously effective on game. If the Hornady ammo is accurate in your rifle, well, it's even more better.
This from a guy that has hunted 270's for more than 40 years, and so far, not gay.
Also believe that overkill....is just right.

I have both the 06 and 270.
Get the 06 to satisfy your itch. I would have no problem shooting elk past 300 yards with it or even my 270. As others said, practice and shot placement are more important than the magnum stamp on your case.
No need for the 300wm in that range. Or spend the money on good gear.

Skip the '06 and go 300 mag. The 270 is too close to the 06 and the 300 is more versatile for future needs. Or just keep the 270, it will do the job.

I appreciate the replies. The 270 I have is a pump, and about fifty years old. I'd prefer a bolt action. I'm leaning toward the 30-06. If I ever have occasion for something bigger than that, I'll upgrade to a 338.

The .300 Wby Mag. for Elk- Is there anything better?

EXxctly what I was thinking.

Ingwe nailed it.

The .30/06 is never a bad choice.

I really like the .270 / .300 Mag combo and that is mostly what I have settled on, though my primary .300 is a .300 Weatherby. Although this differs from many, I personally don't find .300 recoil that much more than .30-06. I do find myself more and more picking a .300 over a .270 these days when time to hunt.

Also, it may be my imagination but I perceive elk size animals hit well with a .270 to stay on their feet just a little longer than those hit similarly with a .300

That just isn't true, everyone knows a .223 with fast twist and 72 grain bullets kill more deader.

Agreed.

This would be good info to have shared to start with. Yes, you are going to want a good bolt action for all-around hunting, which is something you do not have yet.

With that in mind, and not knowing how well you handle recoil, then you should get a lightish 30-06, such as a Win Featherweight or Ruger 77. One of those will be a great all-around start, and end up as all you would ever really need.

While careful not to overgeneralize, the spectrum of responses to these kinds of questions fall into two catergories.
1. What matters is not the size of the tool, but how you use it, or
2. Bigger is always better.


Similarly, these responses come from three different kinds of people.
1. Those who've accepted the modest caliber tool they have and set out to make the best of it.
2. Those who refuse to accept their perfectly serviceable, albeit humbling, bang stick and who are only soothed in the quest for something bigger.
3. The Irish. May God help them, because no matter what they say, you can't hunt big game with a rimfire.

This idea of recoil is also linked to the style of stock on the rifle.. When I built my .300 in the 70's, I looked over a lot of stocks before selecting the one I would have put on the rifle..

My best friend had just bought a custom .300 Wea. from a local gun shop.. It was very light and a 24 inch barrel.. But the recoil was not bad.. It is pleasant to carry and easy to shoot due to the stock design.. Generally, I like heavier guns.. But this one was excellent both in weight and accuracy..

Where will you be hunting??? Will it be in grizzly country??
Every hunter should have one (or 2) 30-06 rifles. If your gonna be in grizzly country I'd look at the 338 WM, 358 Norma or any number of the 375 bolt guns.
In a world of compromise some don't - but if you do, look at the 300 WSM

The winning post ^^^^

The elephant in the room was my 270 is a pump and I think it sucks! There is only one stupid question in the world. And that is the one you already know the answer too. What a joke.

By the way I have just purchased two 270 s this off season and I am impressed! I have hunted with a 3006 for over 10 years. The 270 s I have just purchased are not pumps and they do not suck.

That has worked well for me.

It's worked damned well for me as well..

Horseschidt.

I've chronoed the Superformance, no difference out of two different Brownings.

That said, at 300 yards if a .30-06 won't kill it, a .300 Win Mag won't, either.





P

Well said.

Well, the .300 slings a bullet faster, and hits harder on both ends. Is that an advantage? I've hunted with several different rifles, including the 7mm & .30 cal magnums. Long ago I was thinking there was nothing I'd done with any of the magnums, that I couldn't have done with the good old .30-06 rifle...

So last year I loaded up a bunch of 165 gr Nolser Ballistic Tips for my .30-06, did a lot of practice ahead of the season and took four head of big game:

Black bear at 325 yards
Antelope at 245 yards
Mule deer at 140 yards
Elk (cow) at 338 yards

All died quickly. No tracking. The .30-06 with a pretty normal bullet did just fine.

It's more about the hunter/shooter than the cartridge. Perhaps a few shots from a friend's .300 and .30-06 would help you decide? They're both fine cartridges, easily capable of what you require.

Regards, Guy

[/quote}
last year I loaded up a bunch of 165 gr Nolser Ballistic Tips for my .30-06, did a lot of practice ahead of the season and took four head of big game:

Black bear at 325 yards
Antelope at 245 yards
Mule deer at 140 yards
Elk (cow) at 338 yards[/quote]

I am glad to get current information like this on the Ballistic Tip bullets by Nosler. In the past I have passed on good prices of ammo loaded with that bullet because of their reputation as fragile. It appears they worked well for you on a different variety of game.

Me being a flatlander and having to drive a thousand damn miles to hunt elk would put me squarely in the 300 mag 200 gr partition camp.

You have a 270, I'd get a 338 WM, even hunting moose and caribou in big bear country would warrant it's purchase, 250 gr partitions or swift a-frames would be the bullet for me if my rifle would shoot em well.

I meet a lot of NR's in my hunting Colorado.Especially seem to see a lot from PA,WS,MN and such.Those whitetail hunting states.

Of those hunters,I see alot of Remington 30-06 pumps and few 35 Whelen and more than a few.270's in the same model rifle.

They sure take home a lot of elk with those

Yeah, it's amazing what cartridges will kill elk if the shooter doesn't read about his poor choice on the Internet.

What question is that?

Nothing wrong with a 30-06 but if you are buying a new "Elk Rifle" go with the classic elk caliber 300 magnum of your choice. When someone asks me these days I tell them buy a Tikka 300 WSM with a Meopta 3.5-10 scope from Cameralandny or Optics Planet then for less than a grand you have a great elk killer.

If you see the bull of a lifetime across a canyon at 380 yards it is nice to hold on spine and drop it instead of coming home empty handed (likely outcome on first DIY elk hunt). I like the new Weatherby Vanguard or Howa for good shooting rifles that seem to fit and not recoil beyond normal a little heavier but not bad to have on a 300 Win or Weatherby.

I killed a bunch with a 7 mm but like the extra reach and knockdown of the 30 caliber 180 grain TTSX bullet at close to 3200 FPS. Sighted in at 225 yards you just point and shoot out to about 340 yards.

I shot my most recent bull at 346 yards. One shot, 140 Partition, 7mm-08, through and through, DRT.

If you want a magnum, fine, just don't think you need one to kill elk.




P

Constantly.... ad infinitum. Ad nauseum. SOS.

Carrying a heavier 300 WM could be just enough fatigue to make you sleep a little better at night, and that could be an advantage.

Now we are making a bit of progress.

I too would prefer a bolt action and that would prompt me to consider a new rifle if I were in your boots.

If I was considering a new bolt action rifle for elk hunting I personally would get it in the best cartridge for elk hunting.

The 7mm Rem Mag offers slight but real world advantages over both the 30-06 and .300 Win Mag.

Spending a bit of time researching the 7mm Rem Mag might pay dividends in your elk rifle purchasing scheme.

At the end of a long day in the mountains I've never blamed the 2 extra lbs carrying a standard weight rifle for the fatigue. Guys carrying an extra 25 lbs around their midsection who need a 7lb rifle never made much sense to me.

Carrying an 80-100 lb load on my back on the way out is the goal so a 9 lb rifle shouldn't be too much of a burden.

I understand that there are folks who shy away from recoil because they can't shoot rifles that kick as well as they can their 270's, 7mm-08 or 6.5x55 deer rifles. They are certainly capable of killing elk with those lighter deer rifles but no matter how skilled and capable a marksman is wielding them they are not as effective as the same placement from one of the fast 30's when the ranges are extended or the shot angles are fair or poor with heavy bones in the way. Being able to take longer shots from steep angles through shoulders is an advantage.

There's no doubt that the 300 WM is a fine caliber. It's very accurate and a top notch elk killer. But is it needed for elk under 3-400 yds? No, it's not. If you want one, go for it and you won't go wrong, but that's not the OP's question. For his use, the 30-06 is excellent, too.

......Spyderman......+1.....Burns is correct.....

I for one love the 30 caliber. Owned a 300 Win Wby Vanguard for many many years before selling it and switching over to a different more compact rifle format chambered in the 300 WSM which I have now.

The best way to compare one cartridge vs others is by playing around with a downrange ballistics calculator. Hornady has one on their site.

Type in all the info for each choice; desired bullet weights, the bullet BCs, est MVs, your scope's desired zero in yards, etc. Write down all the results and then compare the downrange velocities retained, downrange ft lbs in energy retained and the trajectory drops at the various distances.

300 yards or less (300 Win vs 30-06), there is little gain imo with a 300 Win where killing power on elk is concerned.

Like Burns, I also suggest that you include the 7mm Rem Mag as a choice for elk. When you compare the downrange #s of the 30-06 vs the 300 Win vs the 7mm Rem Mag in comparable bullet weights, brands and designs, give or take a few grains, you will be surprised in all depts as to how well the 7 Rem compares. Flatter shooting, better velocity retention, greater energy retention, and the 7mm bullets have less bearing surface thereby reducing wind drift.

Those are the slight dividends and slight advantages Burns was referring to.

There are many less powerful cartridges than either the 30-06, 300 Win, or the 7 Rem that will easily topple elk at 300 yards and less.

Although there will be differences of opinion on this, my personal rule of thumb for elk, is to have at least 1500 to 1800 ft lbs of downrange energy at impact. If your max hunting distance is 300 yards, then the '06 and 300 Win will both give you that and then some.

That leaves trajectory and wind drift, where slight advantages goes to the 7mm.

I have a '015 Ram truck that I bought new. Could have gotten by with the 6 cyl. Chose the Hemi. The 6 could have taken me anywhere the Hemi can. The Hemi with my added HP add ons, is far more fun and exciting to drive.

Back in 2011, I could have gotton a new 6 cyl Mustang with about 300 hp. Purchased a new 550 hp GT 500 instead. A 6 cyl Mustang would have also taken me anywhere the GT 500 could. BUT! Guess which is FAR more fun and exciting to drive.

Same holds true imo with cartridges. All depends on the ballistic performance you want.

I prefer more than is needed for any given game and like added recoil too. But,,that's me.

Good luck.

What I like about my old 300's and heavy bullets is the combos ability to grant more forgiveness in the wind department, how can a man judge the unknown?

For some reason I just can't see what the winds doing 25 yards in front of my muzzle, let alone 300 yards away.

By the .30/06 and go kill elk with it.

+1

Don't go by the 30-06 and not buy the 30-06.

I load for 3 30-06's today and have killed one cow elk with an old tang safety Ruger that was my Dad's gun just so his rifle got to do something he never did. But my 7mm RM and lately 300 Weatherby are just more capable rifles for elk. The flatter trajectory and greater damage done to animals past about 250 yards just make more sense where I hunt most of the time. Like a bunch of folks I'll pay over $1,000 in NR tags this year and have only a little over a week to hunt elk on public land most years.

I've averaged an elk a year for the last 15 tries but am on a bull drought the last 3 and keep telling myself cows taste better. Most of our hunting areas are steep or near the public/private line or both. Anchoring the elk is a big deal and I feel like the Weatherby with a 180 grain TTSX is better at that than an 06.

I've shot them from 11-550 yards and only once would I have passed with th 30-06, not a huge sample size but I really like elk burgers and roasts and steak and I'm not willing to give them up for a year because my rifle won't handle a longer shot or a tough shot angle.

If you hunt on the flats of a big private ranch and live in elk country stick with a deer rifle. If you drove through the night and paid NR prices the little extra practice time and recoil are probably worth it. That 300 yard limit sounds good until your only legal animal of the trip is at 415 yards.

Figured you'd just suggest go by the .30-06 and then buy a .308.

Don't by a .308 when you can git a .30/06.

That is for sure elk!!

Glad to see you coming to your senses.

I could've suggested a .375 RUM!

+1

Hunted elk for 20+ years using loads between max and a 7mm-08. No issues.

Your .270 is a fine choice but like others have said I'd go with a 150g bullet or a 130g TTSX.

A .300WM will provide additional range but with a lot more recoil. Ammo will ne more expensive as well. That said, a .30-06 would be a fine addition if you don't have one. I always take two rifles on my elk hunts.

My own battery of bolt rifles for elk includes a .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .308, four .30-06, .300WM and a .338WM. If I can't do it with a .30-06 I probably shouldn't even try.

I would try to borrow someone's 300 or .338 mag to shoot a few times before going out and buying one. You may not like it!

Last year my buddy went to Montana, he killed a bull elk with the 308 Winchester. He killed a cow elk with a 30/30, at about 100 yards. I wouldn't consider the 30/30 to be an ideal elk cartridge. But it worked for him. He only fired one shot at the cow.

Yes after 15 years I have come down from a .338WM to next years attempt - a sling shot using a steelie!

What's so funny,I cried in my pillow two nights in a row because of that faux pas.

Oh ok. Send me that custom 460 Roy of yours and all will be forgiven.

I don't think so.

Dang. For a minute there I thought I'd had myself a new jackrabbit rifle.

Almost,but not quite.

Besides,there are no gun bearers to carry it for you.

I think the ballistics difference is over stated for shots inside 400-500 yards. A 180 TTSX at 3200 vs. a 168 TTSX at 2950 will be about 5" at 400 yds. For the OPs stated 300 yds either will be fine. Zero it at 200 or so, put the cross hairs on, add a little for longer stuff, and shoot.

I'd go 30-06, and if I ever needed anything bigger I'd get a 375.

As it pertains to TSX/TTSX bullets the 300 win mag is going to be better at any distance.

Amen, load up that 270 with great bullets and enjoy finding your first bull with an excellent set of bins.

As my good friend Bob pointed out, you are good with the 270 with good bullets; that said, it was not the answer I was looking for thirty years ago either as I tried most cartridges and many rifles commercially available. So if you want another rifle... but, within 300 yds. as you specified, it is not worth getting a magnum of any stripe. IMO, from 400 yds. and out and for heavy-for-caliber bullets they have their place for big game.

I would focus on good glass first -- bino's (7x-10x) that you really hunt with; second, a good scope (3-9x, 2.5-8x, 3.5-10 etc.) and a solid rings/base combo of which there are many. Then boots and finally good, layered garments and pack.

And so on. And welcome.

George, I agree.

Bob did have a way of cutting to the chase, and he knew of what he spoke.

I would take my .300 WM elk hunting instead of my .30-06, just because.

The .300 is set up with the glass (Victory 2.5-10) that I like. The '06 would do the job, as you say, with the right bullet.

If you have a .300 Mag, why not use it? Basically it would depend on the individual gun, how well you shot it, the glass it was wearing, the mood you were in at the time. etc., etc...

Dead elk either way if you do your part. And, I probably wouldn't shoot one much over 300 yds. I'm not an 800 yd. hunter, have no desire to become one.

DF

Sure Robert. I have a 300 Wby but if I didn't intend to shoot beyond 300 yds it'd probably fall down the list a ways of a hat full of other cartridges.. though there's nothing wrong with using one either.

As you know one just develops a pretty realistic picture of all the cartridges' lethality after going up and down the latter a couple times while taking a fair amount of game.

Sweet sounds like good recipe. 300 gives you a liftle more range and a bigger punch. Might make the difference in some circumstances.

It is not might make a difference, it does..

I always wonder in these discussions, how many elk most of the posters have really killed.. Reading about elk hunting does not replace doing it.. Bob Hagel was a great elk hunter and a great writer.. He understood the benefit of more powerful rifles, if you can shoot them.. Most can't.. He was also one of the early writers who promoted good bullets.. He didn't have the selection we do, but he knew the benefit of a well constructed bullet...

I have killed a tidy sum.Won't post the number here,. I only shot a 300 mag once. Didn't figure I wanted to do that again.I hunted with7 mag for a few years,killed a few elk with that too. However,the 30-06 has worked for me for many years. I will be the 1st to admit that I can't handle heavy recoil.

I have killed elk with a .308, 44 mag carbine,30-30, 7 mag, 50 cal muzzle loader, 45-70 , 30-06, and probably a few I forgot. I can't say I have experienced any great difference in the killing ability of any of them. If a person keeps in mind the limitations of the gun/cartridge they are using and put the bullet where it needs to go and they all die fairly easily.

Nah...

Elk would never turn loose that .460. He just couldn't...

Dem jackwabbits would overtake that part of NM, without a doubt...

DF

Over a dozen elk here with two being cows and only the cows and two bulls were under 200 yds. The rest were from ~ 350 to 475 lasered.

Nine were taken with a 340 Wby which I really came to appreciate over the years so I have no animus for magnums. But the OP specified under 300 yds and IMO no magnum is really needed at those ranges for deer to elk.

And Saddlesore is proof of that as well as many others here.

I wouldn't dispute anything Bob Hagel wrote but my perception is he often ran with the peddle to the metal -- like a 378 Wby for an Idaho Shiras moose. Not that there is anything wrong with that because Bob knew what he wanted but when a guy asks advice you try to be reasonable.

Yup,that's right DF.

The last couple elk I have killed, could have easily been taken with a 300 Savage, the last even the .30-30, but I am not sure how far they would have ran.. Also much of the elk hunting in this area is now in very open country.. Where you hunt makes a difference.. I have killed elk in the timber, and open mountain sides and the plains.. Elk hunting in my area has become a hunt in more open country.

I also remember the first time I shot a .300 Wea.. I must have been 18 or 19, everyone talked about the horrible recoil..
After the first round, I wondered what is all the fuss about!! I guess it is different for all of us..

My pals 460 did get my attention...

I also remember the first time I shot a .300 Wea.. I must have been 18 or 19, everyone talked about the horrible recoil..
After the first round, I wondered what is all the fuss about!! I guess it is different for all of us..

My pals 460 did get my attention...

Bob killed the moose with the 378 because he had it for testing.. I don't think he ever owned one..

This .300 WM is a good recipe, special at least to me. It's an Ed Brown Damara with Ed's proprietary coating, Shilen match grade barrel with brake. Ed claimed his light weight magnums were more accurate with a brake, thus all magnum Damaras have brakes. It comes with a Jewell trigger and Ed's stock made for him by McM, very similar to the Hunter's Edge. It has a 3.6" full mag box, throated to use the extra COAL which gives a bit more powder space in the case.

This gun is very light, very accurate and very pleasant to shoot. The Zeiss Victory 2.5-10 is just lagniappe, as the Cajuns say. Ed's proprietary 704 action combines CRF with a M-700 type round bolt. Legendary Arms Works took it on after Ed discontinued his rifle line. LAW is offering the 704 in a less expensive package. They've had some issues, hopefully they'll get them worked out and produce quality on par with what Ed turned out.

This would be my first choice for an upcoming elk hunt. I'd look at 200 gr. NPT's, although I've killed elk with 180 gr. NPT's, grave yard dead. Why the 200 gr.? Just 'cause...

Then there's the 165 or 168 TTSX at 3,250 fps... Hunting buds, father and son, love the 168 TTSX in their .300 RUM and .30-378 Wby. That's a bit faster but I've seen what that bullet can do.

DF

Sharp rifle!! Way above my paygrade.. I have killed a lot of elk with cup and core 150's and 165's.. Simply because they shot so fast and flat.. This was in the days before we had range finders, and during a time I needed an elk for winter.. Now not so much..
I think guys get caught up in the heavy bullets for the big .30's and fall to realize, with a good 165 at top speed you can almost leave your range finder at home unless you want to shoot beyond 00 yards..

You sir, have some fine weapons.. Enjoy seeing them.. Best on the elk hunt..

that should read unless you are shooting beyond 500 yards.. I don't do that with elk or other game.. Coyotes ok..

I tend to promote less powerful rounds than Wyocoyotedude...but he's absolutely right about the 500ish yard thing, and certainly the 300 or so yard limit of the OPs.

Even with today's "modest" equipment and bullets, shooting out to 4-500 is no big trick, and requires very little high tech equipment...plus that is the distance zone where a big boomer with regular bullets may actually help a guy out with range. The really high B/C bullets don't give a guy huge advantages until you're out past that distance IME.

Cross canyon shots can fool a guy though, so I still do carry a rangefinder to make sure I am within my comfort zone..

I traded for the Damara, wouldn't have shelled out $4K or whatever it listed for at the time. So, I'm in good shape there.

I did some trading for the Victory 2.5-10 with a Fire contributor, wouldn't have shelled out the retail cash for that one, either.

Been trading for a long time, keeping the keepers, herding the rest down the road. I'm now with a safe full of keepers, getting harder and harder to trade...

DF

Ok, just remember his telling the of the incident. But IIRC, he did like the magnums.

Sixteen to date. Only used two calibers, 270 Winchester and 300 Winchester Mag. I believe anything between or over would work just fine. Yes, all were harvested with premium bullets.

If you are having a hard time trading,you do have another option. It is called buying.

"Elk Hunting" is a statement takes in a lot of variety and difference.

Elk can vary from 200+/- lbs to upwards of over 750+ lbs. Those elk can be pursued on the back forty eating off hay bales in the flats, to public ground high in the mountains or deep timber.

Shooting relaxed elk on private ground where, if they run a bit is no big deal, is one type of elk hunting. A mature bull on public ground, during rifle season, in dark timber with no tracking snow is another type of elk hunt. And of course, there's all sorts of elk hunting in between.

While I have no qualm about a 243 on open country eating sized elk (or any elk for that matter), it's not something I'd chose for my own elk hunting. For me, a sensible minimum for pursuing mature bulls in timber is something like the 260 or 7mm-08. And, on big bulls, more rifle is never not a smart thing, unless you can't shoot it well, or don't want to pack it.

IMO, the "ultimate elk rifle" is a 22" bbl'd 338 WM shooting 210 Partitions at 2,950. I've taken bulls with that very rig and it works well. Ditto the 300 Mags and a 180 Partition. I just don't want to pack the rifles chambered for either anymore, so I chose much lighter rifles in more sedate rounds like the 270 or 308 Win. Big enough to break bone and penetrate from bad angles, but light enough to pack all day in the mountains.

For flat land hunting where weight isn't a big deal, and shots could be a lot further, I like more barrel/rifle weight. I've got a 300 WSM for that. 180 Partition, Ballisitc Tip, or Accubond at just over 3,000 fps is a lot of cartridge. Plenty for all elk hunting conditions.

But I doubt there's a better "every man's" elk rifle than the 30-06 loaded with a 180 Partition. If you can't get it done with that, it can't get done.

Sound thinking for sure

For danged sure. That is why my 7mm Mashburn and 338 Winchester are stoked with BBC's... Well, Bob Hagel and Bobby Farese! HA!

I haven't killed an elk too dead yet, but every fall I keep trying!

That right there is just about my favorite as well Brad. I have been running my Mashburn the most the past few years, but I love the 338 Win with 210's. It really seems to cover a whole lot of ground for me. Shoots easily out to my max ranges and hits very hard. Have yet to keep a 210 PT in an elk..

Not saying I don't NEED more guns, it's just that at this point in my life, there aren't many that interest me. Especially if I have as good or better in the safe.

NEED is a 4 letter word, don't ya know...

And, I do buy one from time to time, the latest a 28 ga. Ithaca direct from the new Ohio factory. Glad to support an American maker.

DF

I have come to a point in my life that wanting a gun is the best reason of all to make or buy a new gun.

If we try to find a "Need" we only make life to complex and open up ourselves to criticism from folks that have have no iron in the fire, no dog in the fight, but are convinced that their advice is necessary and that if you don't let them tell you exactly how to conduct yourself, you are inferior.

Avoid such folks. Many of them are fools and only seeking validation from influence of others because they have no merit of their own.

Just get a new gun if you want a new gun! Want is the best reason of all.

It's fun, and unless you are shooting to stay alive, or shooting for money, being fun is 100% of the reason to get guns. If you buy the wrong tool and you have failures, it's not much fun. Failure is not fun as a rule. That's called learning life's lessons.

Asking advice is good, but I only offer it if I am asked, and I never get upset if someone doesn't like the advice I give.
I don't care if they fail. Its not my time of my money at risk.

I find it is a better way to live my life. Let others live their lives as they choose.

So to the man asking the question, I say Get a new gun if you want it. Not that you "need' it. Get it because you want it. Use a good bullet and you'll be fine for elk hunting.

I have hunted elk with the following tools in the last 4 decades.

Bamboo/Glass long bow with wood arrows.
44 magnum handguns
454 Casull Handgun
54 cal flintlock
58 Cal Hawken cap-lock
62 cal flintlock.
270 Winchester rifles.
270 WSM rifle.
308
30-06
300 H&H
338-06
338 Mag
9.3X74R
375H&H

Were any "the best"?
Yup....all of them.

Why?
Because all were just fine.
I truly enjoyed using them all.

Get what you'll enjoy using. Enjoying the hunt is why we do it.

30-06 worked fine on this one a 275 yards. Not sure when the 30-06 became limited to 300 yards? Do 180gr bullets bounce off at 301?

Nice looking elk.

Rifle looks really nice too.

Absolutely.

Surely not when you use P64's.. Great bull and cool rifle. Love to see them laid up on elk!

Both magnums kick somewhat more than a 30-06, but what matters is how you handle the perceived increase. That perception depends on rifle weight, shooting position, stock design, bullet weight and velocity, recoil pad, etc., and on your experience, recoil tolerance, musculature, technique, etc.

I avoided owning a 338 for years because I had shot several Browning A-Bolts while helping customers get them zeroed in. These rifles weighed just under 8 pounds with a scope, which too light, and the stories of hateful recoil were absolutely true.

Then I traded into a Browning High Power in 338 right before an elk hunt last year. Recalling my experience with the A Bolts, I put a fixed 4x scope on it because it had more eye relief than any other scope I own, then sat down and gritted my teeth to get it zeroed. My first shot with 200-grain factory loads was an enormous relief. Recoil was far less than I remembered, probably because this rifle is built on a Mauser action with a walnut stock, and it weighs just over 9 pounds.

I clobbered a nice Roosevelt's bull with it a couple of months later, and now both the rifle and the cartridge are among my favorites. I have another 338 (maybe 2) headed for my safe as you read this.

And yeah, what people say about not noticing recoil in the field is 100% true. The recoil of my 338 felt like a 223 when I shot my elk.


Okie John

A little bit smaller than Centershot's but this one at 347 yards( lasered with Lieca) .06, 180 gr Nosler PT. Went about15. yards.

Where I hunt, that's your typical bull. Same as you Saddle with the 30/06, but I use 180 grain Winchester power points.

Yeah, and those Stainless Stalkers aka the "flying wedge" had very narrow butts on the stock. A friend had one in 338 and it was worse by far than my 340 Wby in a Brown Prec stock.

I have an old Remington model 700 BDL 30.06 and it is definitely my favorite go to hunting rifle. I own several other rifles I have bought and inherited from my dad. Pre 64 Winchester model 70 300 H&H mag, a 308 semi auto Winchester, a savage 7mm 08. I always seem to go to the 30.06 for hunting. I like the way it shoots with cheap 165 grain Remington core lock ammo. I've killed 3 elk with it from 200 to 400 yards and several deer. I've seen elk killed with an '06 from 500 to 600 yards. No issues at all. I've shot many of my friends 270's, 7 mags, and 300 Win Mags, and I just don't like the way they recoil. I prefer the smooth push kick from my '06 over the quick punch of the 270 and 7mags I shot. I hated the recoil of the 300 win mag. There is no way you could go wrong with the 30.06 and a really good scope.

what barrel length to get 3250 ft/s

Thanks. Glad to hear that I wasn't such a lightweight after all.


Okie John

Not my data, Barnes using their 1:10 Wiseman 24" bbl, max accy load 86.6 gr. Magnum, 9 1/2 primer, vel 3,247 fps.

Their load is compressed. With my 3.6" mag box, chamber throated accordingly for longer COAL, this load may not be compressed. Magnum is a dense powder.

Shilen barrel on the Damara is 24" plus brake.

I haven't yet loaded/tested 165/168 TTSX's, but plan to.

Will report.

DF

well if you want to send a 200gn bullet to 300yd as fast or faster than a 180gn 06' , .300mag offers that advantage.



well if you want to send a 200gn bullet to 300yd as fast or faster than a 180gn 06' , .300mag offers that advantage.

If you can shoot a .300 with confidence and don't mind the rifle weight, I don't see a problem.
theres no such thing as being over-gunned.

I never had a .300. I have hunted Big game for thirty years or more. I used to use a lever action Winchester 30-30, but I finally switched to a Remington 30-06 BDL. I did not like it's grouping and I heard about the Tikka T-3 Lite. So I bought one in a 30-06 and fell in love with it. I even went out and bought another in a .270. After last season, I got my CC permit, and I needed a CC pistol, so since I needed a different weapon, and I could only shoot one rifle at a time, I flipped a coin and sold the .270. Almost cried, because both Tikka's got me some nice Elk and many Whitetails so I hated to part with it. I never was able to decide which caliber worked best, but the 30-06 held tighter groups with 180 grain ammo, so I am OK with that choice. Lot's of choices too.

My hunting buddy and I both have Browning X-Bolts, the only difference (other than caliber) is that mine is a stainless stalker and his has a blued barrel. My X-Bolt is in 300 WM and his is a 338 WM. If recoil is a concern, I've shot his 338 WM from the bench on several occasions and I see little difference in recoil. The 300 WM recoil is bit more sharper, where the 338 is a hard push, comparable to my heavier 9.3x62. While I really like my 300 WM, given the range you mention, I would probably go with a 30-06, or step up to a 338 WM.

The OP said the shots would be 300 yards max. That's unrealistic in many elk hunting situations. I like the extra reach of a 300 magnum. My rifle is a 300 WBY. When I hunt with my 300, I've never said, "I wish I had a lesser caliber."

There is nothing per se unrealistic about that at all. For many it isn't about the range at which you see elk but the range you're willing to take a shot.

The OP "WANTS" a bigger gun. Why talk him out of it?

There's very little difference between a .270 and the .30-06 so little in fact there's almost no reason to take such a small step.

I'd recommend a .338 Win Mag. It's a stellar elk rifle and with 210's or 225's it will reach as far as or farther than most should be shooting anyway. It's big enough to use on nearly any game animal, and not hard to find ammo for in a pinch. I love mine and hunt with it a lot. I have quite a few choices available, but the .338WM has many scratches.

I killed a 370 score elk with a .300 Wby, 180 gr. Partition. And, you're right, I sure didn't feel overgunned...

That combo did the job without a problem.

I have a great .375 H&H that's not heavy and a great shooter. Just for grins, I'd consider working up a load and trying it on elk.

Why not... May try it on WT's and hogs next fall. Just 'cause...

DF

I have both plus a 300H&H. Three hundred yards or less, there is no difference.