Most of the readers of this forum likely have a number of different centerfire rifles chambered for a variety of different cartridges. And those who have killed some elk have probably used more than a single rifle/cartridge combination over the years. Some will be favorites, but others worked just fine too.
In some cases, an elk hunter favors a particular rifle/action/whatever over most others, and cares a bit less about exactly what cartridge it is chambered for. As long as the hunter has his trusty Remington M700, he doesn't worry too much about whether it is a .25-06 or a .300 Win Mag.
In other cases, that elk hunter has a strong liking for a particular cartridge/bullet/whatever over other choices, and he values having the right chambering/ammo/bullet choice more than he worries about which rifle he grabbed off the rack. As long as this hunter can use his trusted Remington Core-Lokts, he is OK with shooting a Ruger Number One or a Savage bolt action.
Most elk hunters are a mixture of those two ends of the spectrum. The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
WyoM70
Perhaps another way to look at this question is to take a peek into your gun safe.
Do you tend to find the same make/model of rifle chambered for numerous different cartridges? Or do you have five different .30-06s, with no two of them made by the same manufacturer?
All elk hunters will have had different experiences that will tend to drive them in whatever direction they find best.
Winchester Model 70 fans have a hard time using anything else. Their rifle comes first, and they tend to have a bunch of Model 70s, if they are lucky.
Successful elk hunters who have put a pile of elk on the ground using nothing but Nosler Partitions generally like to stick to the same bullet. They know it is the bullet, and not the rifle, that kills the elk.
They both matter.
But which matters the most to you?
WyoM70
The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
For me it's easy, I like to hunt in September here in CO (during the rut) so my rifle is a muzzleloader. Make/Model is not so important but I do like my T/C Triumph because it's light and handy.
I'm a Model 70 fan, push feed or CRF, either work. .300 WM in a 7 pound model 70 is about perfect!
Have more M70's thank anything but the Sakos are creeping up.
I just like trying different things.
Off the top of my head I've killed elk with:
6mm Rem
.25-06
6.5x284 NORMA
.270 Win
various 300 Magnums
.340 Wby
.375 H&H
Bow & arrow
in:
Winchester 70
Rem 700
Ruger 77 (77 and Mk II)
Weatherby Accumark
Sako 85
With:
Partitions
Accubonds
Power points
AMAXs
Speer BTSPs
Core-lokts
I'm into trying different things lately, after shooting a dozen or so elk with a .35 Whelen and 250 grain bullets, which work with boring consistency.
This year was a 7x57 with 175 grain RN, the year before was an 8x57 and 198gr RN, the year before that was with a .375H&H and 260 NosPT. They all worked too.
The rifle -as in can I shoot it well, do I trust it to hold a zero, etc.
While I like Bearclaws and Partitions I have killed elk with Sierras and Power Points too. If I put it in the lungs they fall down. Appropriate bullet weight is nice. I have used 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets in .30 cal, They all worked though I prefer 11180's. I have only used 225 grainers out of my .338 Win Mag.
I have few different Winchesters,but all in different models 70,88, 9422, 94. Don't have favorite bullets,but in the Model 70,I shoot 220 gr RN, 180 gr Sierra GameKings and 180 gr Nolser partitions, 150 gr Rem Cor-loks, 180 gr Speer spitzers.
I have three different Thompson Center muzzle loaders. A Sidelock Hawkin, Black Diamond and an Impact, all 50 calibers.
So I guess the answer is NO on both counts
I do all my elk hunting with my only big game rifle, Remington 700 in 30/06. I used 180 "Core-lokts" until I found the internet. I then started to reload with 180 grain Hornady interlocks. Now I'm back to factory loads--Winchester 180 grain Power Points. I can't tell much difference, they all kill elk jut fine.
Fact is I use 180 grain on everything---antelope, deer, black bears, bighorn sheep, mtn goat, mtn lion,oryx and moose.
Shooting gear has got good enough so that about anyone can afford a good shooting rifle and ammo. Leupold's VX-1 is a good basic scope that sells for under $200 and mounted on a Ruger American you can have a very accurate rifle for maybe $600. Factory ammo is very accurate and a bargain if you stick to the old favorite calibers.
Reading the original question got me thinking that I spend many weekends (and too much money) comparing cartridges, testing them at various ranges, looking for tight groups.
All year long it is all about the cartridge.
When making final preparations for the actual hunt all of that goes out the window.
At that point it is all about how the gun handles, comfortable offhand? shoot off a steep slope? Am I going to be on horseback? Will I have a week of bad weather?
I grab whatever rifle is best suited for that hunt and the particular cartridges that rifle prefers.
Most of the time the heavy hardware with the big glass gets left home even if it does group tighter.
When you re-phrased the question I guess if you looked in my safe you would see a majority of 7mags there. I don't consider that better than some other caliber. It's just easy, versatile, and I have tons of premium ammo on hand so it's always convenient to select that caliber with subsequent purchases.
Which ever rifle I grab for the hunt, it will be loaded with Barnes TTSX or TSX.
So, for me, I guess you could say it's the bullet, within reason.
For me it goes like this;
1 Choose a bullet that will perform on the critter.
2 Decide how fast I want to push that bullet and pick the cartridge.
3 Design the rifle to fit that cartridge and how I will use it.
4 Choose a good scope for the conditions, size of the target, and distance I expect to be shooting.
I tend to stick with one weight bullet per caliber. I know that trajectory well. If I need more or less bullet to get the job done I pick up another rifle in a larger or smaller caliber.
So, my collection of bolt rifles include .222 Rem, 220 Swift, 243, 25-06, 270, and 7 Rem Mag. Each has one load, one bullet weight. If I ever have need of a heavier bullet than a 160 Partition I think I would twist up a 338 Win Mag.
someone looking in my safe would see the following centerfires:
1 Browning
1 Remington
1 Interarms
3 Marlin
??? Ruger (all the rest)
So far I've hunted elk with the following:
.257 Roberts
.280Rem
7mm RM
.30-30
.30-06
.300WM
.338WM
.375 Win
.44 Mag
.45-70
Most of my elk have been taken with the 7mm RM, remotely followed by .30-06, .300WM , .338WM and .45-70 in that order.
Life would be simpler if I'd sell all but the 7mm RM.
The rifle -as in can I shoot it well, do I trust it to hold a zero, etc.
While I like Bearclaws and Partitions I have killed elk with Sierras and Power Points too. If I put it in the lungs they fall down. Appropriate bullet weight is nice. I have used 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets in .30 cal, They all worked though I prefer 11180's. I have only used 225 grainers out of my .338 Win Mag.
I agree, the rifle has to fit and feel right. It has to be accurate in field positions. Its got to feel like an extension of my arm and be as natural to use as well. I have the most experience with my m1917's, and that's what I mainly use. The cartridge has to be second to the rifle in my opinion....
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someone looking in my safe would see the following centerfires:
1 Browning
1 Remington
1 Interarms
3 Marlin
??? Ruger (all the rest)
So far I've hunted elk with the following:
.257 Roberts
.280Rem
7mm RM
.30-30
.30-06
.300WM
.338WM
.375 Win
.44 Mag
.45-70
Most of my elk have been taken with the 7mm RM, remotely followed by .30-06, .300WM , .338WM and .45-70 in that order.
Life would be simpler if I'd sell all but the 7mm RM.
I had to laugh at this one! I said the same thing a few nights ago, only I replaced the 7mm RM with the .30-06.
Some years ago Mule Deer wrote an article on the .30-06 in which he said "explanations are not experience". That is a profound observation in my opinion.
I guess I just have to try things for myself before I know what I like and what I don't. And that means a variety of rifles, cartridges, and bullets.
Yet I was never happier than when I just owned one elk rifle, and one deer rifle.
WyoM70
Not just for elk, but anything, I want a light rifle. Right now that is a Weatherby Mark V six lug action. If I was going to specifically go after big bears I would have one rebarreled to .338 SLR. That would be nothing more than my 6.5 SLR opened up. It matches the .338 Win Mag. It looks like it has a belt in the photo, but it does not.
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is this one of those chicken or the egg questions?
is this one of those chicken or the egg questions?
The real answer is that often as not, and probably far more often, it's neither the rifle nor the ammo -- it's the shooter.
someone looking in my safe would see the following centerfires:
1 Browning
1 Remington
1 Interarms
3 Marlin
??? Ruger (all the rest)
So far I've hunted elk with the following:
.257 Roberts
.280Rem
7mm RM
.30-30
.30-06
.300WM
.338WM
.375 Win
.44 Mag
.45-70
Most of my elk have been taken with the 7mm RM, remotely followed by .30-06, .300WM , .338WM and .45-70 in that order.
Life would be simpler if I'd sell all but the 7mm RM.
That almost looks like my line up of rifles and calibers through the years. Except, I had the 300 Ultra mag instead of the 338, plus the 444Marlin, .308 and 35Rem. And I had the 25-06 instead of the 257Rob. I also had the 358Win. And doubles to boot. I've loved trying out different rifles and calibers. But I've come back to the 30-06 more often than not.
Most of the readers of this forum likely have a number of different centerfire rifles chambered for a variety of different cartridges. And those who have killed some elk have probably used more than a single rifle/cartridge combination over the years. Some will be favorites, but others worked just fine too.
In some cases, an elk hunter favors a particular rifle/action/whatever over most others, and cares a bit less about exactly what cartridge it is chambered for. As long as the hunter has his trusty Remington M700, he doesn't worry too much about whether it is a .25-06 or a .300 Win Mag.
In other cases, that elk hunter has a strong liking for a particular cartridge/bullet/whatever over other choices, and he values having the right chambering/ammo/bullet choice more than he worries about which rifle he grabbed off the rack. As long as this hunter can use his trusted Remington Core-Lokts, he is OK with shooting a Ruger Number One or a Savage bolt action.
Most elk hunters are a mixture of those two ends of the spectrum. The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
WyoM70
The bullet.
is this one of those chicken or the egg questions?
The real answer is that often as not, and probably far more often, it's neither the rifle nor the ammo -- it's the shooter.
The nut behind the butt and the skill of the hunter is what is needed to take an elk year after year..
Most of the readers of this forum likely have a number of different centerfire rifles chambered for a variety of different cartridges. And those who have killed some elk have probably used more than a single rifle/cartridge combination over the years. Some will be favorites, but others worked just fine too.
In some cases, an elk hunter favors a particular rifle/action/whatever over most others, and cares a bit less about exactly what cartridge it is chambered for. As long as the hunter has his trusty Remington M700, he doesn't worry too much about whether it is a .25-06 or a .300 Win Mag.
In other cases, that elk hunter has a strong liking for a particular cartridge/bullet/whatever over other choices, and he values having the right chambering/ammo/bullet choice more than he worries about which rifle he grabbed off the rack. As long as this hunter can use his trusted Remington Core-Lokts, he is OK with shooting a Ruger Number One or a Savage bolt action.
Most elk hunters are a mixture of those two ends of the spectrum. The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
WyoM70
The bullet.
Won't do much good without the brass, powder and rifle to put it in...
Bullets kill, rifles are just launchers.
Marlin
Remington
Ruger
Savage
Sako
Tikka, are in the safe.
If a rifle fits me and the need, it does not matter. Maybe this is because I do not own a rifle that totally pleases me, I can find gripes about them all.
Bullets kill, rifles are just launchers.
Marlin
Remington
Ruger
Savage
Sako
Tikka, are in the safe.
If a rifle fits me and the need it does not matter. Maybe this is because I do not own a rifle that totally pleases me, I can fins gripes about them all.
Exactly. I understand the various arguments, but in the end, there is only one thing that took the life out of that elk, and that was the bullet.
Its both. The rifle needs to feel good to the owner, and the ammunition needs to shoot well in that rifle.
If the shooter/hunter doesn't have confidence in either the rifle or the ammunition, things are likely to not have a harmonious outcome.
Most of the readers of this forum likely have a number of different centerfire rifles chambered for a variety of different cartridges. And those who have killed some elk have probably used more than a single rifle/cartridge combination over the years. Some will be favorites, but others worked just fine too.
In some cases, an elk hunter favors a particular rifle/action/whatever over most others, and cares a bit less about exactly what cartridge it is chambered for. As long as the hunter has his trusty Remington M700, he doesn't worry too much about whether it is a .25-06 or a .300 Win Mag.
In other cases, that elk hunter has a strong liking for a particular cartridge/bullet/whatever over other choices, and he values having the right chambering/ammo/bullet choice more than he worries about which rifle he grabbed off the rack. As long as this hunter can use his trusted Remington Core-Lokts, he is OK with shooting a Ruger Number One or a Savage bolt action.
Most elk hunters are a mixture of those two ends of the spectrum. The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
WyoM70
Its a system that involves 3 items hunter, rifle, ammo.
All three have to perform together to a certain degree to kill elk efficiently.
I have hunted elk 3 decades now with lever, bolt, pump action rifles ranging in caliber from 6mm to 45. Iron sights or telescopic.
Looking back a scoped bolt action has the most elk taken by far. Ruger tang safety and win m70.
For a short while, my 338 win mag and my 280 rem were tied for elk killed. Then came along a ruger 7mm rem mag about 7 years ago. Safe to say, 7mm caliber has killed the most elk for me now.
Bullets always have been premium build, old school dual core grand slams in the beginning transitioning to partitions. Not that there has been 'plain jane' bullets used here and there. A few hot cores, core lokt, interlocks and ballistic tips... Yes ballistic tips, 7mm 150 gr. from the 280 to be exact. Partitions are the main elk killers. 225 gr in the 338, lots of 160 gr and a few 175 gr. in 7mm caliber rifles.
When the final moment is playing out, the trigger getting pulled, I use place a lot of faith in bullet build. But I realize now is a combination of equipment and hunter to work in harmony to get elbow deep in elk guts
The rifle.
If you don't enjoy carrying it, the cartridge doesn't matter.
John
I guess I'm one of the single rifle/caliber guys. I've killed over twenty elk, most of them with my entry rifle, a tang safety Ruger M77 30.06 with 180 grain nosler partitions. About 7 years ago I bought a Tikka T3 in...30.06 and it is a much better rifle than the old Ruger (now my backup rifle). I've been shooting 165 grain tsx in it. No worries here.
Most of the readers of this forum likely have a number of different centerfire rifles chambered for a variety of different cartridges. And those who have killed some elk have probably used more than a single rifle/cartridge combination over the years. Some will be favorites, but others worked just fine too.
In some cases, an elk hunter favors a particular rifle/action/whatever over most others, and cares a bit less about exactly what cartridge it is chambered for. As long as the hunter has his trusty Remington M700, he doesn't worry too much about whether it is a .25-06 or a .300 Win Mag.
In other cases, that elk hunter has a strong liking for a particular cartridge/bullet/whatever over other choices, and he values having the right chambering/ammo/bullet choice more than he worries about which rifle he grabbed off the rack. As long as this hunter can use his trusted Remington Core-Lokts, he is OK with shooting a Ruger Number One or a Savage bolt action.
Most elk hunters are a mixture of those two ends of the spectrum. The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
WyoM70
Its a system that involves 3 items hunter, rifle, ammo.
All three have to perform together to a certain degree to kill elk efficiently.
I have hunted elk 3 decades now with lever, bolt, pump action rifles ranging in caliber from 6mm to 45. Iron sights or telescopic.
Looking back a scoped bolt action has the most elk taken by far. Ruger tang safety and win m70.
For a short while, my 338 win mag and my 280 rem were tied for elk killed. Then came along a ruger 7mm rem mag about 7 years ago. Safe to say, 7mm caliber has killed the most elk for me now.
Bullets always have been premium build, old school dual core grand slams in the beginning transitioning to partitions. Not that there has been 'plain jane' bullets used here and there. A few hot cores, core lokt, interlocks and ballistic tips... Yes ballistic tips, 7mm 150 gr. from the 280 to be exact. Partitions are the main elk killers. 225 gr in the 338, lots of 160 gr and a few 175 gr. in 7mm caliber rifles.
When the final moment is playing out, the trigger getting pulled, I use place a lot of faith in bullet build. But I realize now is a
combination of equipment and hunter to work in harmony to get elbow deep in elk guts
Great post boomwack.
The pedigree of launch pad doesn't matter at all, its the bullet/arrow/ball that does the job. You can launch with a piece of galvanized pipe as long as you hit the target, but the projectile has to do the job.
Probably the most important consideration..... correct bullet/cartridge for the rifle!
Beyond that,everything is superfluous.
memtb
I favor whichever Rifle likes a certain bullet. I take great pains to use the same cartridge to hunt with that I use sighting in that particular rifle. IMHO not all rifles shoot all cartridges the same, so when I have a compatible match, I stick with it. This not rocket science, but only common sense. Since I rate shot placement high on my list, consistency is paramount. I don't re-load, so I'm at the mercy of factory quality ammo. I guess what it boils down to answer the original question is I value the combination of both the rifle AND the ammo equally as a sort of team. Sounds a little basic, but it has put quite a few Elk and Deer in my freezer.
Why does it have to be either or?
It's not very difficult to pick the rifle you want, and get it chambered in the cartridge you want.
What I find odd, is that I was born, and grew up in Montana and knew/know some pretty darn good elk hunters.
About the last g-damn thing that any good elk hunters I knew/know talked about, or argued about, were the rifles and calibers they shot. Know some that have used .243's for years, some have shot 25-06, 270's, 308's, 300's, 7 mags, 338's. The thing they all had in common, was they killed a metric [bleep] ton of elk. The caliber they chose to pack didn't make them the elk hunters they were. I also don't recall many giving advice to anyone on what they should be using for a rifle or caliber.
They worried more about the best way to get an elk back to the truck, where to hunt, when and how to hunt a particular ridge, when to take their vacations...you know things that mattered about actually killing and hunting elk.
I've sort of come full circle myself...started with a 6mm Remington, shot my first few with that, moved to a hand-me-down 30/06 for years, moved up to a 338 for a long time, killing 35 elk along the way. Since 2006, I've shot another 30 elk, all but one of those with either a 7RM or 7-08.
I find myself often wondering why some people still give the advice of a 30 magnum, 338, etc. when I know for a fact that they simply are NOT necessary. I even question why I ever felt the need for a .338? Not taking away anything about the .338, as it performed on elk, I had great results. But, like others have mentioned, they are NO fun to lug around, and even less fun to shoot.
I just cant see myself arguing that a .270 isn't enough gun for elk...or arguing that all the "good elk hunters from Montana only use 300 mags and larger".
Just isn't based on reality.
Great post from another thread!
Back in the day I didn't know anything about premium bullets. I had friends that reloaded but I don't think they ever used premium bullets either. Back then I bought whatever the local kmart had for sale.
I see so much now about what might or might not be OK for elk, even differentiating between cal./bullet for cow vs. bull.
The elk killed with inferior bullets have managed to somehow stay dead and while I personally have evolved to premium bullets I still shoot factory cartridges.
I'm another 1 gun type. I used a 270 for many years and killed a bunch of elk with it. Then when they came out with the 300 WSM, I decided I just HAD to have one. It worked great but no better than the 270. Last year I decided that the 300 was too heavy so I got a lighter weight 30-06. I don't have an elk with it yet but it's just a matter of time.
Most of the readers of this forum likely have a number of different centerfire rifles chambered for a variety of different cartridges. And those who have killed some elk have probably used more than a single rifle/cartridge combination over the years. Some will be favorites, but others worked just fine too.
In some cases, an elk hunter favors a particular rifle/action/whatever over most others, and cares a bit less about exactly what cartridge it is chambered for. As long as the hunter has his trusty Remington M700, he doesn't worry too much about whether it is a .25-06 or a .300 Win Mag.
In other cases, that elk hunter has a strong liking for a particular cartridge/bullet/whatever over other choices, and he values having the right chambering/ammo/bullet choice more than he worries about which rifle he grabbed off the rack. As long as this hunter can use his trusted Remington Core-Lokts, he is OK with shooting a Ruger Number One or a Savage bolt action.
Most elk hunters are a mixture of those two ends of the spectrum. The type of elk hunting a hunter does, the conditions under which the elk are likely to be hunted, past experiences, and a variety of other factors will all tend to make a thoughtful elk hunter favor one thing over another.
So the question is this.
As an elk hunter, which do you value the most? The rifle or the ammo?
WyoM70
Its a system that involves 3 items hunter, rifle, ammo.
All three have to perform together to a certain degree to kill elk efficiently.
I have hunted elk 3 decades now with lever, bolt, pump action rifles ranging in caliber from 6mm to 45. Iron sights or telescopic.
Looking back a scoped bolt action has the most elk taken by far. Ruger tang safety and win m70.
For a short while, my 338 win mag and my 280 rem were tied for elk killed. Then came along a ruger 7mm rem mag about 7 years ago. Safe to say, 7mm caliber has killed the most elk for me now.
Bullets always have been premium build, old school dual core grand slams in the beginning transitioning to partitions. Not that there has been 'plain jane' bullets used here and there. A few hot cores, core lokt, interlocks and ballistic tips... Yes ballistic tips, 7mm 150 gr. from the 280 to be exact. Partitions are the main elk killers. 225 gr in the 338, lots of 160 gr and a few 175 gr. in 7mm caliber rifles.
When the final moment is playing out, the trigger getting pulled, I use place a lot of faith in bullet build. But I realize now is a
combination of equipment and hunter to work in harmony to get elbow deep in elk guts
Great post boomwack.
Thanks BSA
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