I know it would greatly depend on terrain but do you think a 300 yard personal limit is too restrictive for general Elk hunting?

I may get a chance to go to Colorado soon. The place I'm going,I've been told that out of over 20 a friend of mine can remember, the longest shot was just over 200 yards.

It may even be a silly question but I'm trying to set up my rifle and scope combo.I'm wondering if you guys would feel OK if you set yourself a 300 to possibly 350 or so personal limit with your equipment.

My self imposed limit has been 300 yards. If you have the rifle, scope, ammo and practice to shoot longer distances, go for it. I'm sure that some members are comfortable up to and, in some cases, exceeding 500 yards, but I'm not one of them.

donsm70

PS. It is not the rifle, scope and ammo that concerns me.

Perfectly reasonable. I've killed my share of elk and I don't think I've shot one over 200 yards away. A friend of mine was sneaking up on a small bull for a surer, closer shot, and bagged a 340 class bull while she crawled!

300 yards is too far for most hunters to shoot accurately under field conditions.

I have only shot 3 elk. The longest was 50 yards (5x5 bull). The next longest was about 40 yards (cow) and a 20 yarder during archery season (7x8 bull).

So 300 yards sounds pretty far to me but everyone is different and you get the shots you get. So I might take a long shot if presented with one.

I bet 95% of elk are killed less than 300 yards out.

Don,I can comfortably shoot 200 yards now but haven't really shot much farther except a couple times just because you are lucky here to be able to see over 200 yards in 99% of the hunting situations.Rest assured I have found a 500 yard range close enough to get in plenty of practice from field positions. 300 is just my thinking right now,hopefully shots will be closer but I'll practice until I know my limit regardless.I am an experienced hunter and I won't be taking off hand pot shots at 300.

For some it is, and for others it's too generous.

The trick is in knowing where you fall.

Try shooting farther, then see if you are going to be hunting alone or with spotters, helpers.

Think in terms of time rather than distance.

Lotta elk just wander away while hunters are fiddling with scope dials.
If you hunt on your feet you'll mostly see elk at more-or-less the same time they see you. I read once the average elk kill distance in Colorado - 93 yards. I believe that statistic to be very accurate.
You might have 3 seconds, maybe 5 seconds. That sounds dramatic but it is actually plenty of time to get into a position and be sure of your shot.

The best elk hunting drill I know is - get your rifle off your shoulder and quickly get into position - standing, sitting, kneeling (prone probably won't be an option because there will be too much deadfall and low groundcover).
You won't have time to scout the nearby terrain for shooting rests - this has to happen wherever you are right then.
Once in position that should still you leave a full second to select the animal that presents the best shot, make sure you have a checkmate shot, and to take careful aim.
Be able to hit a basketball sized target with the 1st shot, cycle a cartridge, and hit again with a quick second shot.

Don't be that guy who is picking up brass instead of seeing which direction the elk went. Whether your shot found it's mark or not you will want that brass left on the ground as a reference.

If you somehow find yourself in a situation where an elk has broken cover at 300 yards in daylight during hunting season expect there to be some reason for it. Is it private land? special early season? an alfalfa field? busted out of cover? Anyway, if you are that lucky then you will probably have plenty of time to set up for that shot.
I hope you are that lucky.

That hunting scenario sounds just like how I hunt whitetails here,except I've shot a bunch a lot quicker than 5 seconds in a full out run at 50-75 yards.

I don't know the terrain and situation there yet. It is private owned and set up as a men's Christian retreat, complete with cabin. It's not run as a business,just as a wealthy individual who offers it to whoever he wants.

In 31 years of hunting in Colorado, I've shot one of my 22 Elk over 300 yards. That one was shot while I was standing next to a tree and I had the time to use that tree as a rest. I do have my rifle scope zeroed in at 300 yards but that is because there is only a 3" difference between 100 yards and 350 yards. So I don't have to think about anything except placing the shot where I want it. Over 300 yards and I will try to get closer. I would rather let them walk away before taking the chance of wounding them. But as others have said, most of my elk have been taken at under 200 yards with around 3 to 5 seconds to make the shot.

Good luck with your hunt.

All but about 4 of the more than 40 elk that I have killed were under 150 yards and about half of those were less than 100. I know that I shot one at a little over 330 and one of the others may have been a few yards over 300--I would have to dig out my field notes to be sure. Both of those bulls were stationary and I had a good, solid rest for my rifle.

I was a lot younger then, and thought that a good hunt required an animal on the ground. These days, I just want them as close as possible and a clean kill. Most every big game animal I have taken for the last 11 or 12 years has been with the aid of shooting sticks, either a Stoney Point Polecat or a Bog Pod.

I use the 6" and 10" paper party plate test.

Buy some 6" or 10" diameter paper plates like those you get at birthday parties. 6" for deer. 10" for elk.

The range you can hit 5 out of 5 shots is your limit. NO MISSES AT ALL!

That's the test I gave to my clients years ago when I was doing a lot of guiding.
Didn't matter if they were hunting with irons sighted rifles. scoped rifles, muzzleloaders handguns or a bow and arrow. If I had someone that could not shoot well I just hunted them in different ways so I would always get my client within HIS range. I got a LOT of tips and satisfied clients because I would use tactics that fit their abilities and I never even told them what I was doing.

5 out of 5. NO MISSES.

That how you can tell what your limit is. No one else can tell you. Only you can know the answer, but do the test and be 100% honest with yourself.

how many paper plates, and at what ranges would you put them out at? and how many plates would they get to burn up 5 shots on, before you knew their special range?

If I haven't made the shot in practice, I don't try it at an animal.

If you've proven the distance you can make the shot and proven when you can't, your limit is a known.

Otherwise, why set an arbitrary limit?

I don't think anyone else can really tell you how far you can shoot. Last fall at the range a fella was there shooting 3" groups at 100 yds and claimed his self imposed limit was 200 yds. That's a 6" pie plate at 200. A friend of mine was there shooting and hung his first target at 500 yds. The other fella who was there said he was wasting ammo as 500 was way to far. My friend then shot a 3ish" group at 500. In fact he does it all the time.

So the question is would you take a 6" 200 yd self imposed limit, or would you take a 3" 500 yd self imposed limit?

I think the answer is.....only you know how well you and your gun shoot, what bullet your useing, cartridge, etc.



Trystan

I've killed a lot of elk over the years and only 1 was over 300. I lasered it at 350.

The 300 yard limit is as far as I want to use an elevation turret and a plex reticle without any windage hold marks.The edge of the thick portion of the plex is 3 moa from center. I figure I can guess wind as far as 300 and not be off enough to miss a kill zone.

I have killed a few at 300 and 300 +, but I have killed a lot more at less than 100 yards. My elk rifle is zeroed dead on at 100 yards with my 220gr RN. If I am using the 180's the rifle shoots them 2" high at 100 with the same scope setting.

It is a lot easier to adjust you sight picture to accomodate 300 yards than it is to do it at 35 yards with your rifle sighted in to 300 yards and you are trying to thread a bullet thru thick timber

There aren't a lot of ranges in the south to practice at 300+. I live in NW Ga and the local range where I shoot stops at 300. I have a hay farmer friend that lets me shoot at his place a few times a year, I could go 1000 if I wanted to. I usually go in the spring after everything dries out and before the hay starts growing. Once he starts cutting hay he doesn't want me there and during deer season someone else has hunting rights so Fall is out.

I've gone and practiced with shooting sticks a few times out to 600. To be honest I found it a lot easier than I thought, at least with no wind. I was able to keep all shots at 400 within 5-6" and 6-8" at 500. Shooting at 600 around 12" was the best I could do. This was with shooting sticks. If I'd gone prone with a pack for a rest I know I could have done better. With a range finder, basic knowledge of your drops and a scope with dots hold overs aren't that hard.

But I have no experience reading wind. I'd take a shot at 400 with no wind. In windy conditions, I'd probably limit myself to 200-250 at most. If someone has shot in the wind and knows how to compensate for it longer shots are probably doable. But it is hard to replicate the windy conditions you see in the west while practicing in GA.

The following is my opinion, and has not been researched.

90 % of all elk harvested each year are shot at 300 yards or less.
70% under 200 yards

Alamosa said;
"The best elk hunting drill I know is - get your rifle off your shoulder and quickly get into position - standing, sitting, kneeling (prone probably won't be an option because there will be too much deadfall and low groundcover)."

Getting ready for my 1st elk Hunt, I came up with a practic drill that I believe helped me.

I set up a target at 50 yards, another at 100, and a
9" steel gong at 200.
Starting with the rifle slung on my shoulder, I got the gun up, chamber a round and put one round in the 50 yard target standing, then drop to kneeling and engage the 100 yard target with 1, and then sitting hit the gong once.
The target shots must be in an 8" circle (or it doesn’t count).
I quickly found out just how fast I could break each shot and consistently meet me accuracy requirements, and how to get in each position fast and efficient.

I always base that on how much sauerkraut and mustard I put on the 'dawg. A good one requires 4 paper plates.

What ranges?
This is what I wrote.

The range you can hit 5 out of 5 shots is your limit. NO MISSES AT ALL!


How many plates?
I would say one plate for every position.
1. Prone, 2. sitting, 3. kneeling and 4. off-hand. So 4 plates.

Shoot at your first range. If you hit it 5 times, back up 50 or 100 years and do it again.
Keep backing up until you miss.

That's you you know what YOUR range is. With your gun from that shooting position.

RH, I'd not accept a personal limit of 300. I'd up my game. I mean why not? But that said in the majority of elk terrain I've ever seen that'd be a perfectly reasonable limit.

Yeah. I get that. But you also said.....



And I asked how you set it up, what ranges and how many shots were the intrepid nimrods allowed before you felt comfortable assigning them their 'special range' that you accommodated by giving them their 'special limit? ?

I come at it a little differently. Shooting prone off a backpack or bipod at the range doesn't mean you can do it at the same distance when you're on a snowy slope with a sharp rock under your crotch and the wind making your eyes water.

So I don't put much stock in "I can hit at 500 yards at the range 5 out of 5."

If you shoot enough, when you get in position and put the crosshairs on the target and assess the wind, light, and everything else, you'll know whether you should pull the trigger. Key words are "shoot enough."

There is no substitute. And no magical yardage.

Except to say that if you can't hit at a particular distance with good conditions at the range, that's obviously outside your envelope.

For me, it has various answers on various days and conditions.

I thnk you simply have to shoot, and know how well you shoot so you can call the shot so to speak.

Some days I"m good to 100 or so... some days 1000...

As to quick shots at fleeting targets, I've let a lot walk.. just because I don't like the odds. But thats just me. I don't have a 200 inch mule deer on the wall because of it... Doesn't bother me at all, I prefer that over wounding.

SO it could literally be passing a 50 yards shot but taking a 600 yard shot

Practive will give you the answer.

Get in some ( meaning quite a bit..) of trigger time if you can out to 500 yards ( if you have a rage that long) You will soon see that elk are a big target, and an easy slam dunk at 300 yards...

500..maybe not..but 300 is a chip shot.

300 yards is a very good limit. Sight your rifle in at 200 yards and you are in good shape to 300 with a standard scope. If you have a tactical scope, then learn the ballistics, apply them and shoot as far as you are comfortable with.

All that being said, a lot depends on terrain, as far as distances. I have killed elk at 35 and at 443 and all distances in between.

I have killed four elk in Wyoming and the closest was 326, due to terrain. There was just no way to get closer in the treeless areas that I hunted. I once took me over three hours to get to 400 yards.

My rifles are dialed in to 550 yards, as that is the length of my range here at the house. I have never wanted to shoot over 300, though, and did it when I really had no other approach.

Note the part about practice... 100 yards is to far for many on deer....

Check out the book 'Elk and Elk Hunting' by Wayne VanZwoll.
You will find the answer to this and to other questions that took many of us years to learn the hard way.

Not necessarily. I just ran the numbers for a 168 grain TSX out of a .308.

With a 200-yard zero it's 9 inches low at 300. Not what I would call in good shape at 300.

With that sight in on a 308 I have no trouble*** ringing the small 300 yard gong doing holdover with a 6x standard duplex Leupold.

*** Given a position allowing for a steady hold. It's the trajectory that isn't the problem.

"I have never wanted to shoot over 300, though, and did it when I really had no other approach."
This should say I never really wanted to shoot over 300, but since I had no other approach, and the day and conditions were good enough, once I settled in and read the conditions, and my stability/ability from that position, I realized the shot was make able that day.

Rather than I couldn't get any closer so I flung one.

I don't doubt it. But holding over on an animal in the field is not a good strategy in my opinion, and just because some can hit steel at the range using holdover doesn't make the blanket statement "sight in at 200 and you're good to go at 300" correct.

and I"ll verify, years of shooting 308 in matches, 168s drop 3moa from 200.... But knowing thats its pretty easy to hold on the spine or hairline and be fine.

I keep reading "terrain" I don't much get how terrain matters. Actual horizontal distance and wind effects would be about all I'd be worried about after I knew that my position that day was solid enough

Lots of good advice thus far. I'd devote equal parts of my practice to hitting stuff quickly inside of 100 yards, getting into position quickly and hitting stuff at 200 yards, hitting stuff near your self-imposed limit, and getting a rangefinder into operation quickly.


Okie John

Jeff, what I meant when I mentioned terrain (would've been better to call it terrain/vegetation) was simply that most places I've hunted elk- several different areas in Oregon and in SW Colorado- there really wasn't much opportunity for shots over 300... especially if you add in "where the elk are".

^^^^^

This makes sense


Trystan

When I went elk hunting I didn't give range any thought. I did take the first legal elk I found. It was ranged at an even 400 yards. I thought it was about 200 yards so it was good to range it. If you have a .270 or .30-06 or bigger magnum, you could sight in at what ever range keeps your trajectory at 3" or less out to 300 yards. This would give you a center hold clear out to 350 yards.

A self imposed limit is one's own deal. More respect for such than one who will ignorantly try anything. There are archers with 25-30 yd limits that bag big elk quite frequently.

So you would've taken a shot, regardless of the range?

shoot what your;e comfortable with, personally id have zero issues shooting an elk out to 1K, but i shoot a lot to that range and further, and have guns that will shoot 1/2 moa (with me behind it, better with someone else I'm sure) elks a big critter, with a big kill zone.

I personally don't base my shots on arbitrary distances. I don't say "400 yards max".

I view it as high percentage shots and low percentage shots. I simply don't take low percentage shots.

Weather, terrain, fatigue, etc all come into play. On one day, with the right conditions, and a solid shooting platform, a 600 yard shot is not a problem.

On a day where wind is an issue, and/or a stable shooting platform cannot be attained, a 200 yard shot may be out of the question.

The very vast majority of hunters/shooters I have encountered think that wind is strictly a horizontal issue. That is simply incorrect, especially in the mountains.

Up drafts in the morning, down drafts in late afternoon, as well as switching winds can all have a dramatic effect on a projectile's flight. I have shot enough in the mountains to observe a 2 or 3 minute change in elevation at medium distance shooting (like 600). Watching projectile trace can reveal some previously unseen vertical issues, especially at max ordinate.

The flip side is I have seen short range shots that were low percentage, and should not be taken. Lots of guys will take a 100-150 yard shot at an elk or deer that is running all out, doing 35-40 miles an hour, or worse, going that fast quartering away. The result are often a pretty gruesome horrible and prolonged death for the animal.

Now with all that said, the majority of my shots on elk are 350-450 yards. There will always be the dumb comments about "you need to learn how to hunt or stalk, and I have never taken a shot over XXX "(usually significantly shorter range than what I typically find presented). It is obvious that they want to feel morally superior, implying that a 400 yard shot on an elk is unethical.

It probably is for them..

Good post Mackay ^^^^^

Practice makes perfect. Because you just never know.
All of my elk kills are under 100 yards. But I do a practice out to 200, 300 and 400. Me personally, after 400 yards is where I notice that small things add up and my groups open up. So my comfort zone max is 400 if conditions and set up is right. I did shoot a sub moa at 470 yards but that off of a bench.

Indeed, an excellent post Mackay......but seriously, if most of your shots are 350+ yds ya' need to stalk closer........



Casey

Certain areas of elk hunting will present longish shots, most elk hunting will present shots 200 yds or less......most likely a lot less. I always get the forum equivalent of a yawn when I say this, but for every elk out in the open, there's a bunch more hanging in the timber.


Casey

Can't help yourself can you.

Mackay_Sagebrush,

Those who can do and those who can't say it can't be done; and try to help those who can understand that.

No, I can't. Whenever you say something remarkable, I just have to make a remark. You never disappoint.

An objective answer to the OP's question can be reached by setting up some paper plates and firing away at different ranges, positions and wind conditions. At the point where you are beginning to miss this heart/lung sized target, you have reached your max. That point is likely much closer than you think.

A subjective answer is more difficult to reach - how comfortable are you in causing a magnificent game animal to escape only to die painfully in the following hours and days? If this posibility concerns you, conduct yourself accordingly. If that does not matter to you, than fire away but understand there is a price we all pay for your actions.

I've been on more rodeos that involved short range "snap" shots than 200+.

Perhaps your statement is accurate where you hunt, but that is hardly the case in many other places.

That is for sure Mackay!

I suspect that is because normally when I've taken game at longer ranges, say 275/300+ yards, the animal is normally rather at ease. Up close, they just might be moving out, or there might be difficult vegetation to shoot through, etc...

Last season I sighted my .30-06 in at 200 yards, with 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, doing about 2900 fps. Stalked the cow elk and got to 338 yards before running out of cover. Went prone, rested the rifle on the backpack. Put the crosshairs right on her back and gently squeezed. Good hit! She was down quickly, after stumbling around a bit in the snow. Both lungs, both shoulder blades. On-side shoulder was trashed. With no lungs and two bad shoulders... Well, that worked.

Ya, I like 300 for a guideline - that's getting close to my max range. Practiced to 300 many times before the season and took a black bear at 325 yards a couple of months earlier, with the same rifle & load. Sometimes terrain and vegetation just keep us from getting those 50 yard shots. It was no great stretch for me to reach out to 338, after practicing so much at 300 yards.

Ol' Sagebrush is right about updrafts, downdrafts, sidewinds etc... At further ranges all that comes into play, in a big way. Fortunately on my hunt, the air was cold and still.



Taking the shot:


BTW - I like the paper plate target idea too, and have been using them for 20 some years as my standard practice target. If I can hit the plate, I can hit the kill zone. I do tend to use a steel gong at 300 yards, just 'cause I LIKE it!

Best of luck on the hunt!

Guy

While horseback hunting mule deer in Wyoming, a big bull started rounding up his harem to get them over the horizon. I lasered the distance at 400 yards. I remember thinking if I had an elk tag it would have been a pretty good chance I could have taken him from a sitting or prone position. My 160 accubond 7 RM load has grouped 5 shot 400 yard groups under 6" on targets. So, I consider that to be approaching my limit, I would try a bit longer on something as large as elk if my position was good enough to keep the scope steady.

With those ballistics, if you cannot hit an elk at 300 yards, then you have not practiced at all. Elk have a large kill zone and that distance is not a tough shot, even with the .308.

What is this?! I agree with you, smokepole. A rifle sighted at 200 yards and 9" low at 300 yards should be resighted at about 250 yards.

Yes, you'll have that occasionally.






With those ballistics I can hit targets much smaller than an elk, at ranges beyond 300 yards. It's not my shooting skills that are the subject here though.

It's your unqualified statement "Sight your rifle in at 200 yards and you are in good shape to 300 with a standard scope," that's the topic, and like I pointed out above, it ain't necessarily so.

I don't hunt nearly as much as many on this forum, but I've shot a couple of Colorado bulls using the 168 TSX BT in a .308. Worked very well with a 200 yard zero at ranges of 266 and 319 yards, even if muzzle velocity was only about 2,700 fps.

Using a Bog-Pod and holding a little below the backbone in the 300 yard realm is not a particularly difficult job.

I wouldn't argue that point. As long as you know the range, the drop, and where you need to hold.

IMO, that's different than "zero at 200 and you're good to 300."

The majority of elk I've taken and seen taken were under 300 yards. That said, I've taken elk at 350, 400, 411 and 487 yards and passed on many other opportunities that were over 300 yards. Most of the elk, if not all, could have been taken cleanly with a .308.

Take a rifle that you shoot accurately. If you are going to set a limit at whatever range, practice out to that range at least and then some if possible. (I've found practicing at longer ranges build confidence and ability at shorter ranges.) I highly recommend a laser range-finder as judging distances in the mountains can be tricky.

Good luck to you!

Definitely a good range finder... Many flatlanders, like myself, often don't come close to accurately estimating range by eyeballing in mountainous terrain.

Most Western hunters don't "eyeball" range very well either, no matter what the terrain.

Eyeballing across a draw is tricky and most hunters are way off. My laser is always WAY off.

My self-imposed limit for a shot is 300 yards...but last year I took a shot a bit longer than that. I would not have taken the shot had I not had a competent buddy with me who walked me through it. I practice at ranges longer than 300, conditions were near perfect for the shot, I was prone, and he was there as a spotter and kept updating the range for me.

Perfect answer? No. I will add I would rather take a 350 yard prone shot with no wind over a 125 yard offhand shot any time.

There is a ton of good info, advice and related experience in this thread. Very good work IMHO.

As noted, there is no single right answer to the OP. Most hunters seem to want the closest shot reasonable. That includes me - believing those reports on average elk kill range. I will go LR only if the circumstances are favorable and compelling.

In preparing for such, know your rifle completely as well as your own certain capabilities. Take shots at ranges where you have tested yourself/rifle/load with good results. Learn to accurately estimate distances with your eyeballs - game-sized targets at set distances have helped me with this.

300 is only limiting if you can shoot well further.

~300 is fine from a solid rest, chances are that you will be inside that. The vitals on an elk are the size of a garbage can lid so there is some room for error.

My first elk kill was with a guaranteed 2 MOA rifle. At 400 yards I knew the bullet would hit within 4" of my aiming point from the berm rest I had. I dialed the yardage and took out the arteries at the top of the heart.

Arteries? I usually go right for the aorta if I'm inside 1,000 and there's no wind.

I have always set up so that I have a 300 yard circle ranged in advance and had my rifle sighted in so that everything in that zone was point and shoot without having to think. Not thinking just shooting works better and faster for me. Most any solid field rest will allow me to be accurate at 300 yards with no additional preparation required - no need for pack, sticks, bipod or laying on my belly to put 3 into a pie plate sometimes they stay inside a cigarette pack.

Many hundreds or thousands of practice rounds is about right for 300 yard accuracy in high adrenaline hunting situations. If you practice at longer ranges and know your equipment shots at 500 yards on calm or at most breezy days are pretty routine but are never Point and shoot without thinking. We practice out to 800 yards every year and at that distance a pie plate is in trouble but not a guaranteed hit by any means.

As a less experienced elk hunter with less practice and not as capable rangefinder and scope I passed on a few bulls and that drove me to get better tools and practice with them. My limits today are almost double what I felt good with 20 years ago. But my goals haven't changed - I still want to get within 300 yards and not have to think just shoot.

In my opinion an 8" target with 100% hits should tell you your personal limit.

In other words, the range you can hit an 8" paper plate five shots out of five will be your limit.
So obviously this will vary from different positions and different conditions.
If that's 100 yards from off hand then you should not fire at an elk over 100 yards offhand. If you can place all 5 rounds into the plate at 500 yards from prone, your limit from prone should be 500 yards. And so on and so on.
Only practice will improve your marksmanship and will also show you your personal limits. Be 100% honest with yourself and it will save you a LOT of grief in the field.

Well said mr szihn.

I believe his post says 'hundreds OR thousands'......

Everyone knows you are way better than me at everything.

Yep. Including hyperbole.

Sight in for 200 and see how far you drop at 400. Being from the SE myself, it is always surprising how quickly 300 yards comes up. The key is a great rest.

This

First off, let me say I've never hunted elk. They come on our property now and again, but never in season. My reason for writing is that I wanted to concur regarding the idea of self-imposed limits on range.

Back about 15 years ago, I was out hunting on what was then my new farm. It was a warm evening in mid-November and as I came through a treeline, I saw a herd of whitetail doe on a hillside about 500 yards out. I decided I would just try a shot for the heck of it. I had no idea of actually hitting anything, but I wanted to see what it felt like to shoot at a deer at that distance and see how the deer would react. I braced my rifle against a massive box elder and took careful aim at a doe well apart from the rest and touched one off.

The rifle I had at the time was a Winchester 670 in 30-06. It was by far the best-suited . . .

Oh drat! I just looked at the time. I'll have to finish this later.

Okay, I've got some time now.

The rifle was by far the best-suited rifle in my deer battery, and my son used it just last year to set the camp record, taking a doe at 253 yards. I don't mean to crow about this exactly. 253 yards is not all that spectacular a feat. It is just that we don't usually get a chance to shoot deer at that range.

So back to my story. I took careful aim at a likely looking doe on that hillside, put the crosshairs right in the middle of her boiler room and touched it off. After a noticeable interval, I saw a puff of dust about 4 feet below her hooves. The herd was completely unfazed. I continued to do this until the magazine was empty. On the last shot, I saw a bullet go skipping through the grass which caused at least one doe to jump up a bit. It finally convinced the herd that something was up, and they went bounding off. I was now pretty much blind in my right eye from the muzzle flash. I was happy. The experiment had been a success.

This experience taught me a lot of things.

1) Until I tried shooting at something that far out, I had no idea. It certainly was not like what I'd read in Outdoor Life.
2) Windage on my rifle was fine, but the elevation was ridiculous. There was no way I could have judged the holdover
3) There was no way I could have hit anything like this offhand. Without the tree, the rifle was shaking too much.

From there on out, I was always leery of someone claiming 300 yard offhand shot with a 30-30 or a 400 yard hit off a freshly bore-sighted rifle off the rack at Wally World.

My point in making this post here is that until someone has tried this sort of things in real life, there is no use in speculating. No amount of avid magazine reading, no amount of time spent at the 100 yard rifle range will prepare you for the reality of a shot at a live animal. When we have elk in the field, they look like huge animals, but in the scope that kill zone gets mighty small. Just sticking a rifle out the bedroom window and resting it on the sill isn't good enough. I need something soft to prop the or the binos to give a steady hold. In the field a jacket or backpack would do. Without an accurate idea of range and exact knowledge of holdover beyond the PBR of the rifle, a hunter is doing no more than lobbing bullets in the general direction of the game the way I did on those doe.

Some folks should obviously have shorter limits than others. Any normal shooter over the age of 12 understands that a rest is required for shooting any substantial distance accurately and should know the trajectory of their rifle. Most folks practice new longer ranges with targets, rocks or maybe varmints thankfully but there is always an exception. Unlike a 120 lb whitetail the size of an adult elk allows you to hold a body height above or less at out to 500 yards and hit the vitals depending on trajectory and sight in distance of course.

If you pull a trigger 6 times a year and think 100 yards is a long shot 200 might be your limit. If the shooting range on your farm or ranch is 1200 yards and your back yard picnic table is a shooting bench that limit could be pretty far out. The 12 year old grandson will be limited to 300 yards this year but he is already hitting targets farther than that now.

Be sure to know your zero. Going from the low lands to the high country will raise your zero a number of inches..... depending on the elevation

Tend to agree with this. If you can do it, do it. If not, don't.

Guy

Last fall a local girl, about 12 or 13, got her 1st elk at over 600. She obviously had practice on long shots. She used a bipod and her dad was spotting and handling the laser. He had her pretty well dialed in. I don't know what kind of scope she used.

300 yards with any modern round should be a chip shot as Elk are pretty big and a rifle sighted 2-3" high at 100 will be within 3" at 300 for any magnum round. But my range estimating ability goes out the window when I am first in new territory. I 'll guess and then use a range finder and often am up to 200 yards off. I like the hold on hair or don't shoot philosophy as when I add Kentucky windage on top of poor range guesstimate things can go wrong pretty quick.

I subscribe to the pie plate theory or however far I can maintain a six inch group 100% of the time. Factor in being winded, heavy breathing on your scope a little Bull fever and range limitations get shorter and shorter.

300 yard limit is not to restricting imo. i've been fortunate to kill lots of elk in the last 40 years, and have never shot one farther than 300-350. last years elk was 266 yards, no problem for my 308 win. stick with what you know and are comfortable with. you won't second guess yourself after the hunt ends.

Yes. And moving animals, unknown ranges, time pressure on animals heading into the timber to disappear forever, variable winds, steep terrain, those times you bumped your scope while hiking or riding, less than ideal rifle rest, unfavorable lighting, and again, Bull Fever.

Every single shot I've ever fired at an elk has been dramatically more difficult than at the range. Others might have a different experience, but in the real world there are usually multiple factors that make a hunting shot tougher than a range shot.

Want to explain this? It's not computing for me. What rifle/bullet combination at what MV?

I am using a M98 in '06, with 27 inch heavy barrel which I use on caribou out to 500 yards. My limit, not the rifle's, since it gets right at 1" 3 shot groups at 300 yards. With a really good rest. That's where I have it zeroed for also, but with those Hornady Superperformance 150's at a purported 3,000 plus fps, there is more than a 3" difference between 100 and 300 yards. I lost the iphone with the data on it, so I'll have to reshoot come August. IIRC, it's more like 9 inches.

Back to the OP. My advise is to take the advise offered by many above, as it suits you. I have always sighted my rifles in( the M98 recently excepted) at 200. That's a dead on gimme shot on decent sized game from muzzle to 300, assuming you can use a rest at longer ranges, and preferably at any range.

A range finder is an excellent idea if one is pushing the outer limits. And has time opportunity to use it. My rule of thumb is to get one that exceeds your allowable shooting distance by about third, as the advertised rating is for reflective targets. Not much game is reflective. I carry a Leopold 800si (note 500 yard self limit).

I don't use turrets, I do use "Duplex" crosshairs., which, before I got a range finder, I did use on occasion. Before season, I'd put up targets of "average chest depth" of the animal I was hunting, and look at it at 100,200, 300, and 400 yards, tho my shooting limit was 300.

Here is a rough "field guide rule of thumb" for longer ranges. With a 200 yard zero, most BG hunting rifles will be 7-9 inches low ot 300. So let's use 8 inch, an inch isn't going to make a difference in most cases. At 400 yards triple the drop from 200, at 500 double the 400. The formula is 2/3/2

So bullet drop for a 200 yard zero at 3,4, and 500 yards will look like this: 8, 24, 48. Again, this is not precise, but good enough for most rifles. Checking your actual drop at 300, then applying the formula will get you even closer. Shooting those ranges works even better, even if you don't go beyond 300 as a self imposed limit.

Knowing the average depth of the body cavity of the animal one is hunting gives one a quick , again rough!, guide to where to put the crosshairs on those ones waaaay out there, with just the equipment in hand - a lazer range finder, and the rifle scope. The Duplex cross hairs serve the same purpose, tho much rougher than +/- one yard rangefinder.

I've killed exactly one elk, and hunted them twice. I do have close to 70 caribou down tho. The .260 with 140 gr bullets was zeroed at 200. The opportunity came at an estimated 150, no rangefinder at the time, I knew she was within the "point blank" 300 yard range, however, and didn't even bother "computing". For a rest, I could only jam-brace my left arm between two birch trees, and fire one-handed over that. Hold on hair.... Bang. Flop.

Probably this one-handed technique isn't a good idea with a heavy recoiler.........

Here is a benchmark that may help, or may spook! Last weekend. I was check-sighting a forend-tip pressure-point bedding job on my .243 (covered in other posts).

I am claiming about MOA accuracy for two 3 shot groups. Actually they both went a bit over that, but less than 1.25. Firing was a measured 109 yards.

My "bench" was two daypacks in the back rack of the snowmachine as a fore-end rest, with the stock heel resting on the seat. I was kneeling in the snow, shooting one-handed. I could get a pretty good hold that way, but I noticed my heartbeat was moving the crosshairs beyond each side of my target point. Verticle was much less. Target point is a 2.5 inch black bullseye on 8.5x11" copy paper (I make my own), with a one inch white circle within the black. So I was getting an estimated 4" side to side scope-hair variation from my heart-beat alone. I had to anticipate....

Not much to "prove" a gun's accuracy, but not bad as a "pretty good" test of field -use practicality.

As Ron White would say "That's a valuable piece of information".

I'd shoot the thing on caribou to 300 yards now. With a rest.

Guilty of using the last line. Your "range, drop, and hold" is spot on,and as succinct as I've ever heard it put.

" Going from the low lands to the high country will raise your zero a number of inches..... depending on the elevation[/quote].

Not really - unless one is going waaaay out there at 20,000 feet.

I just did some quick research. Between 0 and 20,000 feet the chart shows a difference of 3 inches in drop at 300 yards ..Presumably all other factors were equal.

That ain't gonna matter squat at 10,000 feet and 300 yards. or 500. It is not elevation that counts anyway, but air density, which is dependent on air pressure, humidity, bees flying by , butterflys in Mexico and all that other nonsense which only becomes important if you are a precision long range shooter, or some idiot shooting at elk 1,000 yards away. Or a SF sniper. The air pressure at one particular spot isn't constant anyway, so worrying about it is not just meaningless, but just plain silly.

For a 300-500 yard shooter on reasonable sized big game, it doesn't mean squat, Sight your rifle in at home, check it on location if traveling, and go hunting.

Strong wind drift and steep angle shooting are somewhat more important than "elevation" differences. Wind drift probably more so than slant for obvious anatomical reasons. The chart I looked at shows a 45 degree "slant range" at 300 yards will result in 5 or 6 inches difference in POI (IIRC) than the same horizontal range. At 500 yards slant range, it is more like 18 inches, so it becomes far more important past 300 yards. Up or down doesn't matter- the bullet is affected by gravity over the horizontal range it travels. It will hit high, so aim a little low, say just below body mid-line at 45 degrees and 300 yards.

Or lower still if you are an aorta shooter.