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I am looking for advice on what you guys use. I can see pro and cons of both. I understand most elk shot close. But where we hunting there is the chance for some 400 to 500 shots across canyons.
I don't like use stock mounted bi pods on my elk rifle. They add too much weight, unbalance the rifle and won't fit in a scabbard. I carry set of expandable shooting sticks. When I am sitting,I can set them up, if moving in thick timber they get stuck in a pack pocket.Shooting 300-400 yards a person usually has time to get set up
That was my thinking I am thinking about sticks . What brand do you use?
sling. Learn how to use it. Its quick and does the job. Offhand...learn to grab what you can or just deal with it. I wouldn't carry anything just due to an offhand shot.

That said we often use a walking stick or cut one...

Prone, for longer shots, I"ve used my wife as a rest, a backpack, or just a sling.
I've had great success with the Polecat magnum shooting sticks for elk hunting.

They fold and unfold easily with shock-cord connections, are very portable and lightweight.

From a sitting position they are rock solid and usually provide enough elevation to shoot over sagebrush. I'd recommend the magnum version as they are a little stouter. They come with a belt carrier or you can strap them to a backpack. Good piece of gear.
slingblade,

For several years, I have been using the Primos Trigger Sticks Tripod. Greatest shooting aid I have ever used- instantly adjustable for height, whether the shot is best taken from sitting, kneeling, or standing position. The advantages of a tripod system over an attached bipod are several: No forward weight attached to your rifle, far more flexibility in varied terrain and vegetation, and can be used as an aid for steadying binocs when glassing for long periods of time.
I am a BogPod fan, but a lot of the guys around here who guide and hunt for oryx like the trigger sticks. I haven't run across the "magnum" version of the Polecat, so I can't comment on it. The older Polecats were a bit wimpy for me.
My preference is the SteadyStix with 3 legs up front and a short PoleCat bipod under the rifle butt.
Originally Posted by rost495
sling. Learn how to use it. Its quick and does the job. Offhand...learn to grab what you can or just deal with it. I wouldn't carry anything just due to an offhand shot.

That said we often use a walking stick or cut one...

Prone, for longer shots, I"ve used my wife as a rest, a backpack, or just a sling.




Exactamundo. I agree with Rost. I'd highly suggest shooting/practicing in field positions. If having difficulty with offhand shooting, just practice more. A tight sling helps a lot as rost pointed out. Learn to do it right, learn to use your surroundings like trees or sapplings. If you can, get down in a sitting position and learn how to anchor your elbows. A good buddy of mine practices field positions more than I do and can consistently shoot sub moa groups (at 100 yards) from the sitting position. The last time he shot my 9.3x62mm in this manner, he shot a .750" 3 shot group in the sitting position. A lot can be done with a certain amount of practice, no need for bi-pod or shooting stics while hunting elk. To be honest, most elk are shot less than 100 yards away anyway and that's an easy snap shot offhand for most practiced hunters... Since the OP specifically stated "400-500 yard shots across canyons" though, I'd suggest practicing from a pack and leave the extra weight and clutter at the sporting goods store.... wink
I've used a Bog Pod and a Trigger Stick on several elk hunts. I prefer the Bog Pod simply because I've had more experience with it, but both work well. Surprisingly steady for long shots and bullet point of impact in comparison with a bench rest zero seems unaffected.
I bought a set of Primos Trigger Sticks for my son's recent hog hunt, then left them at home. The guide had a pair of 24" dowels held together with a piece of inner tube, and my kid used them to make a perfect shot at just over 100 yards. I have no doubt that they would have worked just as well on a far longer poke.

I'm a big fan of the sling because it works for carrying the rifle and for shooting it. A lot of folks confuse the hasty sling and an actual shooting sling--they're two very different things. Jeff Cooper's book The Art of the Rifle goes into how to use a sling at great length, but he focuses on the Ching sling. The Brownell's Latigo also works for a shooting sling, and doesn't require adding a third stud to your rifle, so it's the one I prefer.

If you carry a day pack, that's a pretty good rest if you're shooting from prone. Just practice with it (or with any other shooting aid) before you leave. It can take a surprising amount of fiddling around to get comfortable with any of them, but the results are definitely worth it.


Okie John
Pretty hard to shoot prone off a pack in 2 ft high brush or 15 inches of snow. I don't think the OP is interested in off hand or field positions. .If so so he would not have asked about bipods.Typical answers on the fire though.

In my early years ,I shot .06 Garands and 03's competitively for abou tten years,and I could do better than average. I was comfortable taking a 100 yard off hand shot at deer or elk . Those leagues were ran from early May to late September, ,twice a month, 50 rounds a match and I shot at least that many in the week between the match. A person isn't going to get competent shooting 10-15 rounds once a week for a month or so on field positions.

Now,at times,I will use trees, stumps, rocks or whatever is handy,but if I am set up,I'll sure go with the most solid rest I can find.A bipod does that for me. I like the ones with a head that swivels and telescoping legs. I had a pair that folded with shock cord and they wer to wobbly.
slingblade, I don't remember when I started using (homemade)sticks.....But it's been a long darn time!! My longest (not that long for some) has been an elk at 400 and most recently an antelope @ 420 and a coyote @ 380 during the "goat" hunt. Sticks can be used for much more than just shooting. Can help with balance in rough terrain also we've used them several times to cross a snow covered rock fields to prevent stepping between rocks and "bust'n" an ankle or leg! memtb
Originally Posted by memtb
slingblade, I don't remember when I started using (homemade)sticks.....But it's been a long darn time!! My longest (not that long for some) has been an elk at 400 and most recently an antelope @ 420 and a coyote @ 380 during the "goat" hunt. Sticks can be used for much more than just shooting. Can help with balance in rough terrain also we've used them several times to cross a snow covered rock fields to prevent stepping between rocks and "bust'n" an ankle or leg! memtb


I started with 3' homemade sticks for coyote hunting, (better adapted for a sitting position) and quickly made a pair of 4' for deer/antelope hunting, they work for a good walking stick and steady staff like memtb said.

Even at relatively close ranges they real help steady the shot, or binos when glassing. they are tall enough that a shot can be made over brush and tall grass that often prohibits a prone position, or a rifle attached bipod from getting above.

I've used 4' hardwood dowels with a leather wrap forearm protector, everything to build a set or two can be had at home depot or local hardware store for $4-5 bucks
Desertshooter
Originally Posted by saddlesore
I don't think the OP is interested in off hand or field positions. .If so so he would not have asked about bipods.Typical answers on the fire though.


Ain't that the truth. Guy asks about bipods and sticks, and gets advice to practice with a sling.

The best long range shooter I know favors a bipod but also uses sticks. And he makes and sells slings.
I won't shoot 500 yds but I use a single trekking pole. With a little practice, I can lay it against my leg while kneeling or sitting, grab it and a bush in one hand for a rest, or improvise any number of positions to use it. It's also very useful for hiking over rough ground. The drawback...aluminum poles are very noisy when whacked against rocks. Carbon poles are much quieter. Keep the rubber tip on. The metal tips are also very noisy.
Use either my pack frame, a free standing bipod, boulders, stumps, or trees. I can not get the desired stability from a single stick unless I have the time and place to get it firmly wedged into some sort of structure.
This is a funny thread among so many pros on this forum that won't hunt with a rifle that weighs more than 6 pounds scoped and loaded.
Slingblade: My Elk Rifle has worn a tall Harris bi-pod for over two decades now (some years ago it was upgraded to the swiveling model) and it has sure served me well.
And I carry a Leica Laser Rangefinder as well.
My Elk Rifle also has a sling and the "balance" does not interfere with me at all.
Best of luck to you whichever method you decide on.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Originally Posted by 1minute
Use either my pack frame, a free standing bipod, boulders, stumps, or trees. I can not get the desired stability from a single stick unless I have the time and place to get it firmly wedged into some sort of structure.
By itself, my trekking pole is pretty wobbly. However, it's easy to find a way to stabilize it. I can brace it against my leg if sitting or kneeling. A very good way is to grab the pole and a small branch of a bush in the same hand. Then pull the pole away from the bush to get the branch tight. It's almost as rigid as a bipod and a lot faster to use.
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
I won't shoot 500 yds but I use a single trekking pole. With a little practice, I can lay it against my leg while kneeling or sitting, grab it and a bush in one hand for a rest, or improvise any number of positions to use it. It's also very useful for hiking over rough ground. The drawback...aluminum poles are very noisy when whacked against rocks. Carbon poles are much quieter. Keep the rubber tip on. The metal tips are also very noisy.


This is my intention for my Oct elk hunt.....to shoot from a trekking pole. I've shot a lot off various single stick arrangements, and find it highly effective and simple to use.

Whatever you use, make sure to spend some range time shooting at distance with it to be sure all is working as expected prior to the hunt.
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by 1minute
Use either my pack frame, a free standing bipod, boulders, stumps, or trees. I can not get the desired stability from a single stick unless I have the time and place to get it firmly wedged into some sort of structure.
By itself, my trekking pole is pretty wobbly. However, it's easy to find a way to stabilize it. I can brace it against my leg if sitting or kneeling. A very good way is to grab the pole and a small branch of a bush in the same hand. Then pull the pole away from the bush to get the branch tight. It's almost as rigid as a bipod and a lot faster to use.



Or if you use two poles just loop the straps over the top of the opposite pole, cross them, and use both.
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by 1minute
Use either my pack frame, a free standing bipod, boulders, stumps, or trees. I can not get the desired stability from a single stick unless I have the time and place to get it firmly wedged into some sort of structure.
By itself, my trekking pole is pretty wobbly. However, it's easy to find a way to stabilize it. I can brace it against my leg if sitting or kneeling. A very good way is to grab the pole and a small branch of a bush in the same hand. Then pull the pole away from the bush to get the branch tight. It's almost as rigid as a bipod and a lot faster to use.



Or if you use two poles just loop the straps over the top of the opposite pole, cross them, and use both.


That's what I do, and it's very stable.
Neither. You should be able to take up to a 150 yard shot in any position, including standing, and hit a 10" circle. If that's not possible, range time is in order. If it's beyond that range, my experience is such that some sort of alternative rest is available, e.g. tree stump, fallen log, standing tree, backpack, boulder, etc. For me, less is better during elk season, I like to be light and mobile. If you have time to take out shooting sticks, then you have time to take off your pack and use it as a rest. If you are thinking about a 500 yard shot, the rifle has to be on a solid rest, not wobbly sticks supported by your weak hand.
Originally Posted by Mountain10mm
Neither. You should be able to take up to a 150 yard shot in any position, including standing, and hit a 10" circle. If that's not possible, range time is in order. If it's beyond that range, my experience is such that some sort of alternative rest is available, e.g. tree stump, fallen log, standing tree, backpack, boulder, etc. For me, less is better during elk season, I like to be light and mobile. If you have time to take out shooting sticks, then you have time to take off your pack and use it as a rest. If you are thinking about a 500 yard shot, the rifle has to be on a solid rest, not wobbly sticks supported by your weak hand.


Wait until you get a few more decades under your belt, you might just think differently. A month at the range firing every day,is not going to get the average hunter proficient in off hand shooting. A back pack cannot be used as rest when the brush is 2 ft tall or 15 inch snow or such. Some folks do not have access to range every day.The one I belong to is 45 miles away.

Even if a person is able, a rest is always advisable if available and there is time vs off hand shooting.
I have taken an elk almost every year for the last 30+ years and I'd bet I did not use an off hand shot butv2-3 times and that was when the elk was probably 50 feet or less away
Originally Posted by Mountain10mm
If you have time to take out shooting sticks, then you have time to take off your pack and use it as a rest.


You're obviously not experienced with a good pair of sticks. Much quicker to deploy than taking off your pack, and like SS said, your pack won't elevate you above ground cover.


Originally Posted by Mountain10mm
Neither......... If you are thinking about a 500 yard shot, the rifle has to be on a solid rest, not wobbly sticks supported by your weak hand.



With the right technique and the right situation, good sticks are not wobbly, and a bipod is very solid.
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by Mountain10mm
Neither. You should be able to take up to a 150 yard shot in any position, including standing, and hit a 10" circle. If that's not possible, range time is in order. If it's beyond that range, my experience is such that some sort of alternative rest is available, e.g. tree stump, fallen log, standing tree, backpack, boulder, etc. For me, less is better during elk season, I like to be light and mobile. If you have time to take out shooting sticks, then you have time to take off your pack and use it as a rest. If you are thinking about a 500 yard shot, the rifle has to be on a solid rest, not wobbly sticks supported by your weak hand.


Wait until you get a few more decades under your belt, you might just think differently. A month at the range firing every day,is not going to get the average hunter proficient in off hand shooting. A back pack cannot be used as rest when the brush is 2 ft tall or 15 inch snow or such. Some folks do not have access to range every day.The one I belong to is 45 miles away.

Even if a person is able, a rest is always advisable if available and there is time vs off hand shooting.
I have taken an elk almost every year for the last 30+ years and I'd bet I did not use an off hand shot butv2-3 times and that was when the elk was probably 50 feet or less away

Agreed. At 69 I'm not sure an offhand shot would be my best option. I use walking sticks and loop the wrist bands around the others handle. Works great and is fast. I have also been out there for 30+ years, although I only have 22 elk, and like SS I have had very few shots under 100 yards. Over that and I will need support. My walking sticks are great for keeping me off the ground in the snow and shooting over 100 yards. I also have a Trigger Stick and the walking sticks are overall better, faster and just as effective. Also, a tree is not always available.
Take a look at the Snipepod
Shooting sticks are my preferred choice.

I use tomato stakes from the hardware store, 48" tall. They are aluminum, coated with a green plastic. Fairly stout, and at $1 dollar apiece, I have several sets.


I just can't rely on finding a bush, branch or other support when I spot game in the field (Colorado).

Shooting sticks and a laser range finder are very important to me. Once I know the range, the sticks allow me to take the shot if I choose to.

I started using sticks about 20+ years ago, while coyote hunting. Pre-sticks, coyotes over 200 yards were probably safe. Post-sticks, coyotes are toast to about 400-450yds.
I'd get some collapsible sticks that can fit in your pack in such a way they can be deployed quickly. A good bipod is generally steadier than sticks, but they are also heavier and more cumbersome to pack on an elk hunt. Since you said there is a chance for 4-500 yard shots, there is likely an even higher chance for 2-300 yards shots. Sticks are worth their weight in gold for the mid-range shots. Sticks will take the shake right out of a 275 yard shot... Sticks give you the advantage of shooting from anywhere because you won't always have a tree or rock handy when the moment to shoot arrives.

Whatever you do buy, practice with them. You don't want your first time using them to be on the elk hunt. Ringing steel or shooting varmints while shooting off your sticks will help you know the strengths and weaknesses. I'd no more head afield without my sticks than without my binoculars. They make the semi-difficult shot almost a slam dunk. You may not need them, but if you do they might just make the difference on punching a tag or not.
Originally Posted by k22hornet


I started using sticks about 20+ years ago, while coyote hunting. Pre-sticks, coyotes over 200 yards were probably safe. Post-sticks, coyotes are toast to about 400-450yds.


Me too and I totally agree. Hunting coyotes is what led me to using sticks for hunting virtually everything. I happen to use the Snipepod and it works well for my needs, but there is lots of good supports available.
Mine are Vanguard,Model Quest B38. Telescoping aluminum tube legs with foam grips. Swivel head.The head unscrews easily and I can mount my camera or binoculars on it. I have an elastic strap on it and I Can carry it across my shoulder.It also extends far enough that I can use it as a walking stick.

http://www.vanguardworld.us/photo_video_us/quest-b38.html#go-sectionTop
Thanks for all the replies and advice. Last year I was hunting heavy cover and elk were high. This year I planning on two plans. One for high at or above timberline. And hunting in heavy cover. Weather drives this. I am a fan of a light rifle. I shoot a hells canyon Long range. Around 7 pounds with scope.
Generally if you are making off hand shots, the hunt has gone to hell. Shoot with sticks,they will effectively double your range. After shooting prone at distance this morning,my 11year old son shot a 3" 6 shot group off his sticks at 164 yds. I shot a 3 shot group of 1.25". We shoot off our sticks a lot. Do that off hand, or with a sling.I almost never kill a coyote,(or anything else) off hand.
I am looking at bog pod and trigger sticks you guys that have them what do they weigh as weight is a thing when hiking ten miles a day
Check out the SnipePod too, they may be what you're looking for.
Originally Posted by slingblade
I am looking at bog pod and trigger sticks you guys that have them what do they weigh as weight is a thing when hiking ten miles a day



If you want to pack those awkward, heavy, clunky things 10 miles a day, you're a tougher man than me.....
I'm too tired to read all the posts. My 2 cents, Harris bipod. I use the bigger guy that allows me to shoot it sitting Indian style. Don't know the model #. Used it in Africa and all over Arizona and Colorado for elk and muledeer. On a Weatherby Mark 5 300 Weatherby mag with a BC stock. Bit big and troublesome on the shoulder but it takes a 300 yard shoot off a backpack and turns it into a 500 yard last light monster buck shot.but
I tried a Snipe Pod and bipod, then settled on the Primos Trigger Stick tripod. I killed a bull off it at 346 yards, rock steady.





P
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by Mountain10mm
Neither. You should be able to take up to a 150 yard shot in any position, including standing, and hit a 10" circle. If that's not possible, range time is in order. If it's beyond that range, my experience is such that some sort of alternative rest is available, e.g. tree stump, fallen log, standing tree, backpack, boulder, etc. For me, less is better during elk season, I like to be light and mobile. If you have time to take out shooting sticks, then you have time to take off your pack and use it as a rest. If you are thinking about a 500 yard shot, the rifle has to be on a solid rest, not wobbly sticks supported by your weak hand.


Wait until you get a few more decades under your belt, you might just think differently. A month at the range firing every day,is not going to get the average hunter proficient in off hand shooting. A back pack cannot be used as rest when the brush is 2 ft tall or 15 inch snow or such. Some folks do not have access to range every day.The one I belong to is 45 miles away.

Even if a person is able, a rest is always advisable if available and there is time vs off hand shooting.
I have taken an elk almost every year for the last 30+ years and I'd bet I did not use an off hand shot butv2-3 times and that was when the elk was probably 50 feet or less away


I agree that if a rest is available it should be used. On the other issues, I have to politely disagree. In 33 years of deer and elk hunting, I can only recall maybe three times a rest was used and I don't recall a shot over 200 yards. I totally understand everyone's hunting situation will be different, but that's over 3 decades of experience for me. And I strongly disagree with the shooting skill part. Any hunter ethically taking game needs to be proficient with their weapon. Period. If that means the hunter only shoots off a rest, so be it, as long as they are proficient in that manner. The range part doesn't fly with me either. Standing, kneeling, sitting, prone can all be practiced using a BB/pellet gun in a garage, even more so with dry firing. Ask any pro shooter how they got good...dry firing will be top of the list. If hunters can find a way to travel 1000's of miles to hunt, they can surely drive 45 miles a few times to practice beyond that of their BB gun.
You are kinda disagreeing with yourself.

1st post:

Neither.You should be able to take up to a 150 yard shot in any position, including standing, and hit a 10" circle.

Last post:

If that means the hunter only shoots off a rest, so be it, as long as they are proficient in that manner.

I am working on 5 decades of hunting. Give yourself twenty more years and you will see your eye sight fade ,which means iron sights get really fuzzy. Muzzle loading season gets to be tough. Range time ,your eyes are good for about twenty shots( even with a scope). I don't travel 1000 miles,more like 200. I go to the range now days,about 5 times a year. Shooting using a bipod and a scope,I can still put 3 bullets in an inch and a half group at 200 yards. Two years ago I punched tags for an elk, a moose, a deer and an antelope. Last year, an elk, a deer, and two antelope, all but one using a bipod. ( a tree was used)

Firing a BB gun in the garage is not going to give a person muscle conditioning and control of a 7-8 pound rifle and there is big difference in trigger quality. Plus those sights on a BBgun are like a muzzle loader, 20 shots and they can't be focused on. I can still knock over minature rams and such with an air rifle off hand at 10 feet, but I sure wouldn't want to try to kill an elk at 100 yards off hand.

Muscles/joints at 70+ years don't hold up to offhand.Knees don't work for kneeling.Sitting works with a bipod. I applaud your capabilities and shooting proficiency, but things will change for you during the next twenty years.

I guess all us old farts ought to just hang it up and sit home in the rocking chair.
I like collapsible sticks myself (in the form of a bipod). They can be pretty compact until needed. I've tried a tripod but it was a bit awkward getting set up on rough ground. Sitting with a hasty sling and sticks is almost like a bench for me and sitting just with sticks is pretty close.

Several years ago I had to shoot a bull at 250 yards from sitting with just a hasty sling because I was in knee to thigh high oakbrush that was too spindly for a rest. I wasn't carrying sticks which would have been better but two shots in about 2" caused him to stagger a bit, but he didn't move out of his tracks.
I prefer shooting sticks to a stock mounted bipod. Have used both over the years... have also used my pack a time or two... and trecking poles slung together. Of the two options mentioned by the OP, IMHO, shooting sticks just seem more versatile to how high off the ground you need to be based on shot angle, obstructions on the ground, etc. It really comes down to which system a person has the most confidence in. To the OP, try both and see which one YOU like the most. I will say that getting prone and shooting off my pack is pretty darned stable, but you can't always do that. Good luck!
Any good rifle hunter, proficient in the use of his rifle and equipment, can and will use whatever shooting aid is available to him, whether it is a tree limb, rock, backpack, bipod, tripod, crossed sticks, or from a prone, sitting, standing, or kneeling position. IMO, a good hunter will practice from all these positions, and use them in actual application, and in time, become proficient in the use of any and all shooting aids available to him.
I happen to carry, and use, the Primos Trigger Sticks most often nowadays, but will not hesitate to use any other shooting aid, if the situation dictates. I own Harris Bipods, Snipepods, and backpacks, btw.

Most recently, I have found the Trigger Sticks to be very useful for handgun hunting, even from blinds where convenient rests at the right height are often hard to come by.
+10 Bighorn
Mountain I am very effective with my rifle to about 225 yards utilizing sling method. I practiced the other day 3 shot groups free hand. I use 8 inch paper plates for target. I could put all 3 in paper plate out to 225. off hand using sling. Most of places I will be hunting is at treeline but open. 4 to 5 miles from roads and 1 mile from any trails. I am looking for advice from 250 to 500 yard range. I like versatility of shooting sticks as I can be sitting or kneeling standing. Do you guys prefer tripod or bipod shooting sticks . I swinging toward bipod for weight.


3 rounds into 8 inches at 225, offhand. That is very fine shooting. You are using a hasty sling to achieve this?
It's an individual preference kind of thing to me. I don't like a heavy bipod hanging off my rifle. My son in law wouldn't be without his tall Harris bipod and he is an excellent shot who can deploy them very quickly. For brand new shooters the bipod is easier to use and faster but is limited by tall grass and brush. The do make a nice rifle kick stand to keep your gun out of the dirt.

I practice prone off my pack(never used in the field yet) off one knee, seated off both knees (my favorite and most accurate) seated off the pack, seated and standing with the tall Primos tripod trigger sticks, I settled on the tall tripod because they make great walking sticks and are tall enough to get above the brush. I use camouflage tape all down the lower portion of the legs an it makes them much quieter and less reflective.

With no time constraints I would likely use both my pack and sticks and rest my back on a tree but I've never found that in the real world yet do I don't practice that way. Yes I can shoot off hand with a sling but that is inferior to a good rest.
Originally Posted by slingblade
I am looking for advice on what you guys use. I can see pro and cons of both. I understand most elk shot close. But where we hunting there is the chance for some 400 to 500 shots across canyons.


You don't have top choose between them. In this case I used the Primos Trigger Stick, 272 yards.

[Linked Image]

Nowadays I use the Primos Trigger Stick tripod rather than their bipod and dispense with the rifle mounted bipod. Took my longest game shot ever off the tripod, 487 yards, cow down.

Upside of the sticks is they can be used as a cane, although Primos instructions say not to do so. Before my hip replacement, as in photo above, I couldn't have gotten around without something and the Trigger Stick worked pretty well. Downside to the sticks is you have to carry them in hand. Tripod is much more stable than bipod, although bipod can be steadied against a tree for more stability.

Downside to the rifle mounted bipods are several, but they have advantages, too. Downsides have been mentioned in posts above by others.
Just lay across your pack. A guy can only carry so much crap up and down the mountains.
Originally Posted by Mountain10mm
[quote=saddlesore][quote=Mountain10mm] The range part doesn't fly with me either. Standing, kneeling, sitting, prone can all be practiced using a BB/pellet gun in a garage, even more so with dry firing. Ask any pro shooter how they got good...dry firing will be top of the list. If hunters can find a way to travel 1000's of miles to hunt, they can surely drive 45 miles a few times to practice beyond that of their BB gun.

Excellent advice! I don't know why I didn't think of using my home-made sticks with my pellet gun sooner. My pellet rifle has a decent trigger and a fair no name 3x9 scope on it. Thanks.
Originally Posted by centershot
Just lay across your pack. A guy can only carry so much crap up and down the mountains.


That works pretty well when it works and I've done it often. The problem is that there are times when a person can't get enough elevation doing that. Even my long-legged, rifle-mounted bipods are too low at times.

Sticks got me above the sage for this small 6x6.


[Linked Image]
Long collapsible shooting sticks are the best. Its a rare place bipods arent too low. Plus, sticks are great under 15x binocs needed to see antlers sticking up above prairie grass in scattered mesquite bushes.
If backpacking where, at my age, less weight is important, I use Bipod Shooting Sticks: http://bipodshootingsticks.com. They weigh next to nothing and fit well in virtually any pack. I've used these sticks for 5 or 6 years now for hunting elk and deer. When weight is less of a concern my favorite sticks are the Vanguard Quest T62U's. It is tripod, that can quickly converted to a bipod or a monopod and uses flick-locks for leg extension. It will also take a pan head for use with a spotting scope. While they are a little heavier than some sticks, what I really like about the Vanguards, is that they provide excellent support for glassing and shooting while sitting, without any extension whatsoever...just spread the you are ready to glass or shoot. In fact, I have only used them fully extended only once since I bought them. Since my hunting hikes and stalks are now at much shorter distances, they work perfect for my needs and also fit well in my day pack.
I have never used sticks and I dislike bipods. However not all hunters feel that way. many I have guided use supports of one kind or another. It's just a matter of what you like and are willing to carry and use. There's no wrong way to make a good shot. There's no right way to miss. My Nephew Clint is an accomplished hunter and a master guide in 3 states, and he does use a bipod. To each his own.
I have been hunting big game now since I was a young boy, hunting with my dad before it was even legal. And I have had my own hunting rifle and hunting with my own licenses now since I was 12. I have tried various ways of doing things over the 5 decades of hunting seasons behind me, and I have found for me personally, I don't like things hung on my rifles at all.

I use my hunting pack for nearly all my prone shots. In my years of hunting everything I have hunted, and in all the places I have done that hunting, I would guess I have killed about 50% of my game off hand, with most kills being at 200 yards and less. Many of them at 50 yards and less.
The other 50% was killed from sitting, a few dozen kneeling and some from prone. Add to these shots those kills I have made by leaning against a tree or large rock.

In competition we have to adhere to rules about positions, but in hunting the #1 concern is an ethical one-shot kill, so there is no such thing as "cheating". I take a rest when I can, even if I don't need one. About half my kills have been off hand because I always try to get close, and when I do and I see game it's often a case of shoot in 1 to 5 seconds, and that's all the time I have. If you know your rifle and you shoot a lot (I do) you'll find 2 to 5 seconds is plenty of time,--- if you don't waist any.

I tried a Harris bipod for a few years, but found it to be a pain to carry and real slow to get into action. The first gun I ever used with a bipod was an M60 Machine gun in my 1st year of enlistment in the Marine Corps. At a bit over 20 pounds, it was not something I used very often off-hand, so I simply left the bipod extended and hung onto the gun by it, as I carried it over my shoulder. I tried the same carry on my 22-250 years later with the Harris, but found it less than satisfactory.

I still use my pack most often if I need a rest. Even in tall brush and deep snow. You see, if the brush is tall enough to block me, it's tall enough to help me to get closer to my deer, elk antelope or whatever. I like brush! Why shoot 400-500 yards from a rest when I can can shoot from 50 yards with or without one?

On snow, a pack is the very best rest I have ever used. I throw down the pack and it doesn't sink as much as even my own body does, so it makes a perfect rest.

On steep inclines I use a "combat prone" like shooting from behind a barricade. (USMC combat shooting positions) In other words, I angle my body at about 90 degrees from the rest. In that position and on a very steep incline you may find it helpful to lay a bit on your side instead of totally on your belly, and curl your body a bit "around" the pack. In hunting game I don't have to worry about incoming fire, so I can get totally comfortable and not worry about anything but getting solid. So you can modify this "combat prone" for no reason other than getting stable and solid and don't worry about "taking cover" as we were trained in the Marines. By laying that way I can shoot over my pack on VERY steep hills, and the position is far more solid than any bipod I have ever tried.

But all this doesn't make me right and anyone else wrong. It's just what you get used to and how well you can use your tools.
Originally Posted by rost495
sling. Learn how to use it. Its quick and does the job. Offhand...learn to grab what you can or just deal with it. I wouldn't carry anything just due to an offhand shot.

That said we often use a walking stick or cut one...

Prone, for longer shots, I"ve used my wife as a rest, a backpack, or just a sling.



You have used your wife for a backpack or a sling???? smile. smile
I'v got a BOG tripod that can double as a walking stick if one is careful - probably not a good idea, but it is as lightweight as the below walking stick - and steadier for shooting, not for walking. Haven't used it on game but once yet (standing shot), and while it is steadier than a standing, sling-wrap offhand (my other choice at the time), it will never take the place of a nice prone, over the pack/rock/ log position, if you can get it.

i still have several padded forked 6' long birch-cut walking sticks that I've used for many years prior, but only found need for shooting once or twice, either due to "right now" close range shots, or the availability of a better rest. Sure are handy when one has 75 lbs or more on one's back tho! But those can often be cut on site, as needed.

Now that I think about it, I did once use one on a moose stand, laid horizontally across two willow forks to create a good rest from a sitting position Worked, too, when a young bull showed up 30 minutes later at 150 yards.
Get a light weight telescoping kind, can deploy to match any uneven level. Keep it dry they will freeze up. Clip it to the top front of your pack shoulder strap, the makeshift rifle rest while walking will make up for the extra weight by resting the fore end on it. Have it long enough to stand and shoot, short enough to sit and shoot.
My two cents worth...In the last ten years of Kansas deer hunting I have lost exactly one opportunity (to kill a coyote) off a Harris bipod prone. Just lucky I guess. All deer to 402 yards prone with Mr Harris's product. That said, I will mostlikly time out, getting setup prone on the best deer of my career this Fall !!!
Originally Posted by desertshooter
Originally Posted by memtb
slingblade, I don't remember when I started using (homemade)sticks.....But it's been a long darn time!! My longest (not that long for some) has been an elk at 400 and most recently an antelope @ 420 and a coyote @ 380 during the "goat" hunt. Sticks can be used for much more than just shooting. Can help with balance in rough terrain also we've used them several times to cross a snow covered rock fields to prevent stepping between rocks and "bust'n" an ankle or leg! memtb


I started with 3' homemade sticks for coyote hunting, (better adapted for a sitting position) and quickly made a pair of 4' for deer/antelope hunting, they work for a good walking stick and steady staff like memtb said.

Even at relatively close ranges they real help steady the shot, or binos when glassing. they are tall enough that a shot can be made over brush and tall grass that often prohibits a prone position, or a rifle attached bipod from getting above.

I've used 4' hardwood dowels with a leather wrap forearm protector, everything to build a set or two can be had at home depot or local hardware store for $4-5 bucks
Desertshooter


Four foot 0.5" poplar dowels are now going over $4 each at MY local hardware store.
Originally Posted by Anjin
Originally Posted by desertshooter
Originally Posted by memtb
slingblade, I don't remember when I started using (homemade)sticks.....But it's been a long darn time!! My longest (not that long for some) has been an elk at 400 and most recently an antelope @ 420 and a coyote @ 380 during the "goat" hunt. Sticks can be used for much more than just shooting. Can help with balance in rough terrain also we've used them several times to cross a snow covered rock fields to prevent stepping between rocks and "bust'n" an ankle or leg! memtb


...
I've used 4' hardwood dowels with a leather wrap forearm protector, everything to build a set or two can be had at home depot or local hardware store for $4-5 bucks
Desertshooter


Four foot 0.5" poplar dowels are now going over $4 each at MY local hardware store.


That said, while light collapsible hiking sticks are a great option and I do have a couple, I did buy the poplar dowels too and I am now treating them with tung oil.

I do recall when I hunted in Zambia, the professional hunter did bring along a set of 4' wooden sticks for us to use.

(It may not be PC to say so, but one of the trackers was tasked with carrying them. On his behalf, unlike some others, our PH did carry his own rifle. He had served in the King's African Rifles back in the days of Northern Rhodesia and knew the value of having it on hand.)
I say use what you like. I like using a bipod.
For those interested, the bog Pod is on sale at amazon. Clip for the coupon and the total is $49. I bought one last week. I like it. Midway has them for $90.


https://www.amazon.com/BOG-POD-RLD-...01891743&sr=8-8&keywords=bog+pod
I like the ones made by Stoney Point. Light and quick.
If I am hiking any distance I carry a set of shooting sticks similar to the Primos Polecat, if I am hunting off the ATV I have used a Bog-Pod for more than a decade now.

That said last season I used my buddy's Primos Trigger Sticks and they are head and heels over my Bog-Pod and are on my to get list.
Anjin, I upgraded (I think) a few years ago to 4 foot long , 1/2" fiberglass rods with rubber chairleg cups on the end, lashed together with leather. Initially had a little trouble on hard, smooth surfaces. I removed the rubber cup, and inserted a brass rivet. Now, it has " traction" on most any surface! memtb
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Originally Posted by slingblade
I am looking for advice on what you guys use. I can see pro and cons of both. I understand most elk shot close. But where we hunting there is the chance for some 400 to 500 shots across canyons.


You don't have top choose between them. In this case I used the Primos Trigger Stick, 272 yards.

[Linked Image]

Nowadays I use the Primos Trigger Stick tripod rather than their bipod and dispense with the rifle mounted bipod. Took my longest game shot ever off the tripod, 487 yards, cow down.

Upside of the sticks is they can be used as a cane, although Primos instructions say not to do so. Before my hip replacement, as in photo above, I couldn't have gotten around without something and the Trigger Stick worked pretty well. Downside to the sticks is you have to carry them in hand. Tripod is much more stable than bipod, although bipod can be steadied against a tree for more stability.

Downside to the rifle mounted bipods are several, but they have advantages, too. Downsides have been mentioned in posts above by others.




I have had my eyes on those. I like that they have a handle above the tripod junction. Would you be able to extend one of the three legs and use it for a walking stick? Too heavy? Sturdy enough?
They are great. 330yards uphill no problem.
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