You have a .30-06, a .300 H&H, a 9.3 X 62 and a .375 H&H.....you shoot them all fairly well and are comfortable shooting 350 yards with any of them.
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk most of the day. Stalking isn't the style you prefer as age has taken it's toll. Hstorically shots have been 300 yards and more on cow elk and you shoot over sticks.....
What's your choce of rifle?
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk
How are you getting to this meadow? Day hike in? Reason I ask is I’d take the lightest rifle were I walking in.
As to cartridge, what one will do, the others will do.
I’d take a 6.5 Creedmoor using 127 Barnes LRX bullets. Far easier to shoot at distance than any mentioned, kills every bit as well (probably better past 400) and leaves no lead in that wonderful cow elk meat. Recoil is so much less as to almost be a winning criterion in and of itself.
I’d take a 6.5 Creedmoor using 127 Barnes LRX bullets. Far easier to shoot at distance than any mentioned, kills every bit as well (probably better past 400) and leaves no lead in that wonderful cow elk meat. Recoil is so much less as to almost be a winning criterion in and of itself.
I’m pretty sure you misunderstood the question
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk
How are you getting to this meadow? Day hike in? Reason I ask is I’d take the lightest rifle were I walking in.
As to cartridge, what one will do, the others will do.
BY 4X4 truck. weight isn't an issue.
Considering ballistics only, I would lean heavily toward the one that would give me the longest range while maintaining
2000 fps impact velocity for bullet expansion.
Maybe the better question might be....."Is there any of those you would not use?"
Maybe the better question might be....."Is there any of those you would not use?"
nope. by your description, any will work.
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk most of the day.
What's your choce of rifle?
You mean like me last year?....
![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/hveMWF.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/ecOzIb.jpg)
.....you shoot them all fairly well and are comfortable shooting 350 yards with any of them.
...
That says it all. Flip coins until one is left.
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk most of the day.
What's your choce of rifle?
You mean like me last year?....
Is that your 9.3, or your .375 H&H??
I'm a bit concerned that even tho I'll be shooting monometal bullets, the larger calibers will be "too much" for elk and not perform like they should on such things as eland or much larger critters.
I once shot a Wisconsin 8-point whitetail with a .375 H&H..... It did kill the deer but the bullet provided very little expansion as the exit hole was no different from the entrance hole.
.375H&H A 3/8” bore is the “only” caliber I’ve hunted with since the early ‘80’s (went to an AI in 1990) except when handgun hunting! memtb
I’d run the 9.3 or 375 just for cool factor alone.... 😎
I'm a bit concerned that even tho I'll be shooting monometal bullets, the larger calibers will be "too much" for elk and not perform like they should on such things as eland or much larger critters.
I once shot a Wisconsin 8-point whitetail with a .375 H&H..... It did kill the deer but the bullet provided very little expansion as the exit hole was no different from the entrance hole.
Doesn't that have more to do with the speed of the bullet than the caliber? In other words, follow the old advice on going lighter and faster with a monometal? For me and the situation you described that would be a 130 or 150 grain bullet in the '06 if I was bent on using monometals.
I'll second the 375 H&H....with 260 gr accubonds!
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk
How are you getting to this meadow? Day hike in? Reason I ask is I’d take the lightest rifle were I walking in.
As to cartridge, what one will do, the others will do.
BY 4X4 truck. weight isn't an issue.
For me, a no-brainer. 30-06 loaded with 165 or 180 NBT's, NAB's or NP's.
No point dealing with more recoil than necessary...
Doesn't that have more to do with the speed of the bullet than the caliber? In other words, follow the old advice on going lighter and faster with a monometal? For me and the situation you described that would be a 130 or 150 grain bullet in the '06 if I was bent on using monometals.
I m bent on using monometals as it's a requirement of the ranch I'm hunting. Further, I'm supportive of the requirement.
That said, I can push a 210 grain Barnes at close to 3,000 FPS from the .375 H&H.....or even a 200 grain Barnes at slightly over 2800 FPS from the 9.3 X62....now that's living up to the old Winchester add: It makes a helluva noise and packs a helluva wallup
Where did you find 9.3, 200 grain Barnes X bullets?
Where did you find 9.3, 200 grain Barnes X bullets?
Wondering the same. Would try some .366 Cutting Edge 200 grain flat base Raptors in that circumstance. On paper I've had excellet results with GS Custom 230 grain HV's . Fills the mono bullet need if necessary.
Handloaded the .300 H & H..
30-06 or 9.3x62... No need for a Magnum @ 300M.
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk most of the day.
What's your choce of rifle?
You mean like me last year?....
Pictures like this make me really jealous.
I m bent on using monometals as it's a requirement of the ranch
30-06 / 150 TTSX
30/06 without a doubt. That's what I use. 180 grain bullet .
I'd take the one that has proven to have the most stable zero, and has the scope on it with the best low light performance. If you are going to sit there all day, you better hope the scope doesn't dim out on you just as a last light elk steps out.
If you are talking about shooting from the chair, I would do plenty of practice from that position to make sure that LOP, eye relief, and recoil issues are all worked out.
While I’m no longer shooting/reloading for the H&H, only the AI......people are getting good velocities with the 250 TTSX’s. Check out the Big Bores/Express Rifles site here on “24”. They’ve lots of load info on the H&H. The 250’s should give some good longer range performance! memtb
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk
How are you getting to this meadow? Day hike in? Reason I ask is I’d take the lightest rifle were I walking in.
As to cartridge, what one will do, the others will do.
BY 4X4 truck. weight isn't an issue.
The one you like shooting the most.
300 H&H..nostalgia, great round, fun to shoot and will do the job
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk
How are you getting to this meadow? Day hike in? Reason I ask is I’d take the lightest rifle were I walking in.
As to cartridge, what one will do, the others will do.
Good advice; the older I get, the lighter I like.
7-08's, 308's. 270's & 280's are plenty adequate for what you are doing in a light(er) rig.
MM
I can't remember which state had this on their web site. But it stated that shooting an elk quartering to you, you need 2000 lbs of energy with a premium bullet to properly penetrate into the vitals to ethically kill an elk.
So this eliminates the 30-06 as it carries 2000 lbs out to about 300.
Someone mention Creed. Do I need to comment how ridiculous this would be.
The 9.6 carries 2000 lbs out to about 400 yards.
The .375 and .300 H&H out to about 450-500.
So flip the coin on the .375 and .300 H&H.
The guide I'm going with in New Mexico this year said that 350-450 yard shots are pretty normal. Recommends .30 cal magnums or caliber of equivalent or higher power. Or the creed. lol.
I can't remember which state had this on their web site. But it stated that shooting an elk quartering to you, you need 2000 lbs of energy with a premium bullet to properly penetrate into the vitals to ethically kill an elk.
So this eliminates the 30-06 as it carries 2000 lbs out to about 300.
Someone mention Creed. Do I need to comment how ridiculous this would be.
The 9.6 carries 2000 lbs out to about 400 yards.
The .375 and .300 H&H out to about 450-500.
So flip the coin on the .375 and .300 H&H.
The guide I'm going with in New Mexico this year said that 350-450 yard shots are pretty normal. Recommends .30 cal magnums or caliber of equivalent or higher power. Or the creed. lol.
Utter nonsense.
I can't remember which state had this on their web site. But it stated that shooting an elk quartering to you, you need 2000 lbs of energy with a premium bullet to properly penetrate into the vitals to ethically kill an elk.
So this eliminates the 30-06 as it carries 2000 lbs out to about 300.
Someone mention Creed. Do I need to comment how ridiculous this would be.
The 9.6 carries 2000 lbs out to about 400 yards.
The .375 and .300 H&H out to about 450-500.
So flip the coin on the .375 and .300 H&H.
The guide I'm going with in New Mexico this year said that 350-450 yard shots are pretty normal. Recommends .30 cal magnums or caliber of equivalent or higher power. Or the creed. lol.
Utter nonsense.
Satire ...I hope
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
I have heard that before Brad, not all the world hunts like you!
I m bent on using monometals as it's a requirement of the ranch
30-06 / 150 TTSX
I'm with this dude.......
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites. I didn't make up the guide's rules. I have visited many elk guide's sites in the last six months and many of them talk about minimum calibers and bullet sizes to use. One I visited said not to come if you were bring under a certain caliber. Again not my opinion.
Second I wouldn't take a quartering to me shot over 200 yards even though I'm very capable at longer ranges.
Third the 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet of any style at an elk quartering to me at 350-400 yards imho is not enough gun. Much less many smaller calibers shooting light bullets at equal or less speeds. I think there's a lot of experienced elk hunters that would agree with this statement.
I'm not saying you can't kill an elk with 06 at 400 quartering to you with 150 grain bullet. But imho it would nof be very ethical. Just like almost every Outdoor hunting channel t.v. show takes so many unethical shots. That's why I will only watch Jim Shockey and Eastman's. Not saying there aren't a couple more ethical hunting shows.
imho I think a lot of people forget that it is or responsibility when taking an animals life to dispatch of that animal in quickest most humane manner possible.
You have obviously never killed an elk........................
MM
I m bent on using monometals as it's a requirement of the ranch
30-06 / 150 TTSX
This. You’re engaged in mental masturbarion without cause.
They are elk, not Velociraptors.
Dave
I think there's a lot of experienced elk hunters that would agree
And a bunch that wouldn't......
Adams,
Are you one of those "experienced elk hunters that would agree"?
Adams,
Are you one of those "experienced elk hunters that would agree"?
Laughin' here.....................
MM
Hardest part of killing an elk is finding one to kill. I guess if you need to hire someone to find one for you you should heed their priorities... experienced elk hunters don't have to heed their BS though.
Kent
Only one of those I have is the 3006 and it's killed a bunch of elk with the 165 barnes, it was my loaner for family and friends when they drew and I take them out for over 20 years, now it's a 7 08.
Kent
A 30-06
B 300H&H
C 9.3X62
D 375H&H
I do own all of those calibers and hunt elk with them all too, and so I'd vote E.
All of the above.
All work fine.
If you are going to sit and wait, and you don't have to walk at all,take them all and sit with a new one every day until you get the elk you want.
"Let the elk decide"
Eney is the 06. Meenie is the 300. Miney is the 9.3 and Mo is the 375
catch a nagger by his toe is the Creed.....
If he hollers, let him go is the 260
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites.
Neither did any of the states.
Interesting thread. I'm a long time supporter of the 30/06,(Otter6),and the 150 grain bullet. Last season's whitetail buck stopped one without an exit of any sort. Kinda shook my faith in the combination. The shot was close,so velocity may have played a part. 18 yards,angled down through the chest cavity. The bullet entered high shoulder on the left,and the jacket was against a broken rib near the tip of the sternum on the right. Granted,the buck dropped so hard it bounced,but what if it had been an elk? No CNS was disturbed. I know,the deer absorbed every ounce of the energy. Perfect performance per se. Yada yada. I'm sure a mono would have exited,but the Ballistic Tip hunting (new construction), didn't. If a four year old eastern whitetail can stop one short of exiting,with a chest cavity shot, Ill pass on the elk. At least with anything short of a mono or bonded offering.
I'm old school enough that I've been heard to say the 06 is best served with 180 grain bullets. The Kimber has a preference for 150 grain bullets though. So,no more Ballistic tips in this rig. I love my otter6 rifles. With the right bullet. I wouldn't use too broad a brush to paint that picture though.
Of those I'd pick the 300 H&H, I've killed all my elk but one with my 300 H&H and I have total faith in it and the model 70 I built around it. A 180 TTSX @3050 has impressed me.
Of those I'd pick the 300 H&H, I've killed all my elk but one with my 300 H&H and I have total faith in it and the model 70 I built around it. A 180 TTSX @3050 has impressed me.
There can be no doubt as to this choice ....it's just a good one.
Here's the real issue.....I know that cow elk aren't especially hard to kill ....shot placement reigns always!!! Having said that, I'd be a lot less concerned if it was like deer hunting.....meaning....local hunts are very good and cost me less than a "C" note. Ek hunts easily cost me twenty times as much.....so I like to plan much more carefully.....hell, I could also use a .264 Magnum or a .270 Winny and even a .25-06 but when you play poker for higher stakes one likes to have a fairly good hand to raise the bidding. Further, the ranch I hunt has a "you draw blood and it's yours" rule....very much like South Africa.....and it's intended to keep hunters from simply blasting away at anything within eyesight. It's simply akin to the rule....two jacks to open and trips to win.
One likes to have much better odds on his side to play this game.....besides that....February was a very harsh month and some of us are still dealing with "cabin fever".....LOL
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites. I didn't make up the guide's rules. I have visited many elk guide's sites in the last six months and many of them talk about minimum calibers and bullet sizes to use. One I visited said not to come if you were bring under a certain caliber. Again not my opinion.
A friend spent years guiding for elk in Colorado. He never carried anything but a .243 for himself, so there is a wide divergence of guide opinions.
Second I wouldn't take a quartering to me shot over 200 yards even though I'm very capable at longer ranges.
Why not? Many loads are quite capable of humane kills with quartering shots well over 200 yards. I've driven monos lengthwise through deer at 400 yards. No mono I've ever used has been stopped by the animal and I've taken multiple elk with them. The last was 400 yards give or take a couple.
Third the 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet of any style at an elk quartering to me at 350-400 yards imho is not enough gun. Much less many smaller calibers shooting light bullets at equal or less speeds. I think there's a lot of experienced elk hunters that would agree with this statement.
A 150g TTSX launched at 2914fps from a .30-06 will retain 2296fps and a bit over 1756fpe at 400 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to use that load for elk at that range. The 168g TTSX load I do use starts at 2841fps and retains 2240fps and 1871fpe at 400 yards. Not enough difference to worry about. Daughter #1 uses a 130g TTSX in her .308 Win. Launched at 3045fps it retains 2269fps and 1486fpe at 400 yards. I don't doubt it will work. (All numbers assume 8,000 ft altitude and 50 degrees F.)
I'm not saying you can't kill an elk with 06 at 400 quartering to you with 150 grain bullet. But imho it would nof be very ethical. Just like almost every Outdoor hunting channel t.v. show takes so many unethical shots. That's why I will only watch Jim Shockey and Eastman's. Not saying there aren't a couple more ethical hunting shows.
Quartering to or away it is not a shot I would pass up with any of the loads I've listed. Unless I thought I could get closer.
imho I think a lot of people forget that it is or responsibility when taking an animals life to dispatch of that animal in quickest most humane manner possible.
That is definitely true.
I’d take a 6.5 Creedmoor using 127 Barnes LRX bullets. Far easier to shoot at distance than any mentioned, kills every bit as well (probably better past 400) and leaves no lead in that wonderful cow elk meat. Recoil is so much less as to almost be a winning criterion in and of itself.
I’m pretty sure you misunderstood the question
He's sniffed too much H4350...
I enjoyed the exercise! Lots of us older guys have to "dial it back" if we are to continue our participation in the game!
You have a .30-06, a .300 H&H, a 9.3 X 62 and a .375 H&H.....you shoot them all fairly well and are comfortable shooting 350 yards with any of them.
You're going elk hunting and the style of hunting is to sit in a lawn chair in the mountainous meadows and glass for elk most of the day. Stalking isn't the style you prefer as age has taken it's toll. Hstorically shots have been 300 yards and more on cow elk and you shoot over sticks.....
What's your choce of rifle?
I've used all of these. I'd lean toward the good ol 06 or 300H&H loaded with partitions or Hornady ELDX, or even like Brad and JB said 150 TTSX.....
Which ever gun you like and shoot the best. I'd likely go with the 30-06 as I'm not real fond of recoil and it's plenty to kill any elk I have ever seen.
Anyone who would not take a quartering shot on an elk at 200 yds or any shot at 350 yds with a 30-06 is welcome to hunt with me anytime. I can always use a buddy to help pack out a bull. 😂
A good start would be to find how many people on the Campfire have actually Killed more than a couple elk and with those cartridges.
Before I go out and kill a pile of Elk; I have to know if a 30/06 will or won't bounce off ??
Cigar,
My experience is that a .30-06 rifle will indeed bounce off an elk, though admit only seeing it happen when the elk in question was already dead, and somebody attempted to place their rifle on the elk for a photo.
But haven't seen it happen with bullets shot from a .30-06.
^^^^^^
^^^^^^
yes sir....I agree....very good humor!
I will admit that I have never killed an elk with a .30-06. As a matter of fact, it has only taken one good mule deer which resides on my wall. Elk just don’t seem to show up when I occasionally hunt with that rifle. It just always seems to be the backup rifle to something else. Perhaps I should change that this year. Nah....
Cigar,
My experience is that a .30-06 rifle will indeed bounce off an elk, though admit only seeing it happen when the elk in question was already dead, and somebody attempted to place their rifle on the elk for a photo.
But haven't seen it happen with bullets shot from a .30-06.
The .30-06 (well....atleast it's bullets) didn't bounce off this pair of elk
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_26503.JPG)
Back to the original question, I would vote for the .300 Holland just for the panache factor. Happy Trails
Before I go out and kill a pile of Elk; I have to know if a 30/06 will or won't bounce off ??
You are obviously confusing the good ol' ought six with that abortion the 270 Winchester. The 270 should be totally banned as a caliber in all states....except California and parts of New Mexico!!!
Before I go out and kill a pile of Elk; I have to know if a 30/06 will or won't bounce off ??
You are obviously confusing the good ol' ought six with that abortion the 270 Winchester. The 270 should be totally banned as a caliber in all states....except California and parts of New Mexico!!!
Bawhahaha
Of your choices I have 9.3x62 and .375 h&h , so I'd have to pick between them . But everything you listed will do it . So pick the coolest rifle haha .
I've been trying to find a good 9.3 X 62 load.....I have one that's great except it's accuracy seems to evade me.....vertical displacement of groups is almost nonexistant but horizontal dispersion is roughly 2 1/2 inches at 50 yards.....So it seems I have to work on the forend bedding and maybe that can alleviate the spread . The .300 H&H is currently my second choice but finding the bullet to deliver the accuracy I want has evaded me as well.....monometals don't really offer the large variety that one has in standard bullets. I gave up on Barnes and ordered some Noslers and we'll see how that works out. 165 grains (according to those of you that have posted on the subject) seems to be the ticket so I ordered that bullet from Nosler.....Hornady also makes a 165 but the published BC is considerably better with the Nosler offering, so I'll try them first.
It's a long time until elk season again but I want to have three elk worthy rifles for the trip....one to hunt, one as a backup and one for the other hunters that just might need a better mousetrap. So Far the .30-06 passes with flying colors.....so two to go!
300 H&H. Because it is was probably the first " Elk Cartridge "
My last two 9.3x62s both shot 250 ABs very well with either Varget or RL-15--there wasn't much to choose from in terms of accuracy or velocity. Ditto with the 9.3x74R. Have you tried these?
vapodog,
It sounds to me like you're trying to work up loads in the .300 H&H and 9.3x62 when there's something faulty with the the barrels or (more likely) the bedding in both rifles. I've owned/shot several rifles in both cartridges, and the only time I had any problem getting good accuracy was in a Ruger No. 1 .300 that needed some minor bedding modification of the forend.
For some reason a lot of handloading hunters still believe that finding the magic "combo" will result in great accuracy, even when their rifle has basic problems. If your rifles won't work with bullets and handloads that work in other .300 H&H and 9.3x62's, then there's something wrong with the rifle, not the load. I'd try a basic handload that usually works in both rifles, and if it doesn't shoot well, fix the rifle before wasting more range time and components.
The other solution would be to use your .30-06. It will easily so the job.
So Far the .30-06 passes with flying colors.
Have you read the Bible?
Do you know what “handwriting on the wall means?”
This is God’s way of telling you what the divine choice is for your hunt... don’t kick against the goads.
vapodog,
It sounds to me like you're trying to work up loads in the .300 H&H and 9.3x62 when there's something faulty with the the barrels or (more likely) the bedding in both rifles. I've owned/shot several rifles in both cartridges, and the only time I had any problem getting good accuracy was in a Ruger No. 1 .300 that needed some minor bedding modification of the forend.
For some reason a lot of handloading hunters still believe that finding the magic "combo" will result in great accuracy, even when their rifle has basic problems. If your rifles won't work with bullets and handloads that work in other .300 H&H and 9.3x62's, then there's something wrong with the rifle, not the load. I'd try a basic handload that usually works in both rifles, and if it doesn't shoot well, fix the rifle before wasting more range time and components.
The other solution would be to use your .30-06. It will easily so the job.
I'm convinced that the 9.3 X 62 has a bedding problem....and I can fix that.......but the .300 H&H has shot 200 grain A-Frames into very small groups and, believe it or not, also shot very small groups with the 125 ballistic tips.....but while the 168 grain Barnes isn't shooting really poor (Groups slightly over 2") it doesn't meet the standard I want to go on a "spendy" hunt. The .300 H&H is a Remmy 721 that I restocked....the rest is original and functioning very fine. I took it to Africa for plains game twice and like the gun....but have decided to convert to lead free bullets no matter the cost. We shall see if the Nosler bullets are any better.
that said....to your advice, I'll check the bedding to see if something may have changed.
Yes, the .30-06 will do the job.....I know that,
Why, the one that you haven't killed elk with, of course
Why, the one that you haven't killed elk with, of course
Yup....that's why I'm working on the 9.3 X 62 and the .300 H&H.....further, I haven't killed anything with the 9.3 X 62 so far.
The .300 H&H has killed Kudu, Gemsbok, Zebra, and other plains game as well as whitetails....and I must say it does one bang up job on whitetails with a 200 grain A-Frame
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites.
Neither did any of the states.
Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link
http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot.
Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs.
Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier.
For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps.
The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one.
This thread is pretty hilarious though.
God Bless!!!
I killed more barn yard animals by the time I was 14 than any hunter here has killed game except perhaps a professional pest shooter, cattle, pigs, goats, poultry, rabbits for a meat processor. hands or club for the smaller stuff and 22 shorts for the livestock. Only animal I couldn't kill was an old range bull my dad's friend bought at auction and brought to our p[lace for us to kill and butcher. It had grown a skull cap ridge so thick and complete I couldn't put a short into the brain. Dad had to go get his '06, cause that's all he had besides a 12 ga.
Also been killing game since I was 7 and was allowed to tote a 22 and 410, nothing different.
Killing part is easy and it's not about numbers.
I'm sure my wife will kill another elk with her 708 and 120bts shooting through the shoulders and putting it on the ground this year.
Kent
22 shorts for the livestock. Only animal I couldn't kill was an old range bull my dad's friend bought at auction and brought to our p[lace for us to kill and butcher. It had grown a skull cap ridge so thick and complete I couldn't put a short into the brain. Dad had to go get his '06, cause that's all he had besides a 12 ga.
Totally agree. .22 is great on cattle at point blank range.
Not if you don't know what you are doing or guessing.
Kent
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites.
Neither did any of the states.
Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link
http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot.
Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs.
Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier.
For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps.
The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one.
This thread is pretty hilarious though.
God Bless!!!
Do you know the difference between a rule and one man's opinion? Here is the rule in Colorado, it's from the same link you posted, you must have missed it:
"To legally hunt elk with a rifle in Colorado, you must use a rifle that fires expanding bullets with a minimum caliber of .24 cal. or 6mm, a minimum weight of 85 grains that delivers at least 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy at 100 yards."
So now that we know what the rule is let's look at that opinion you posted above. The author of that piece says it's "the general consensus" but did you notice he didn't back that up with any information or say who that consensus was gathered from? If that's what you want to believe, that's your prerogative, just don't call it a rule. It's not even "the consensus" here, as you can see. And your comment about the .243 being incapable of killing elk at long range is funny too. I don't believe that would be the consensus amongst these gentlemen, who used the 6 mm. Creedmoor for their elk:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12675774/1/meat-run
If that's what you want to believe, that's your prerogative, just don't call it a rule. It's not even "the consensus" here, as you can see.
I'll add a bit here.....the rule was already covered in the caliber and 100 yard energy requirement. The rest is simply bullet placement.
Here in Nebraska we have a similar rule, but for deer, and our law allows .224 diameter bullets. That said everyone I've hunted with or even visited with at check in stations use plenty of gun......the .25-06 becoming very popular locally. Wisconsin has an extremely simple rule.....any centerfire except .17 caliber....possibly excluding .204 as well now....but no one I've encountered hunting there uses anything less than a .243.....most hunters overwhelmingly just seem to know what to use...laws seem moot. In nearly 60 years of hunting I've never seen anyone using inadequate firearms for the game being hunted......welllll....there was one guy that shot a very fine eight point Minnesota whitetail with a .410 slug.....shot placement was his saving grace....
From my own personal experience, if there is a consensus, most all hunters tend to use more than enough gun....and some much more.
.
On the other hand, there are more than a few very good hunters who post here regularly, and use .223's for their deer. "Using enough gun" is fine and dandy right up to the point where it's not just your personal preference, but something you (not you personally) preach that others should follow suit.
There's woods smarts or cut&paste smarts...
Kent
On the other hand, there are more than a few very good hunters who post here regularly, and use .223's for their deer. .
I once used a .222 Rem for deer in Texas.....It was a sako L-461 with a very special barrel.....at 16 1/4" and shot quite well.....It accounted for several one shot kills....all at about 100 yards and using 50 grain soft points.....(and yes....it was legal)....and no, there was no deer lost to it. Since then I graduated to the .25-06 for deer......
My father once killed three deer near Tofte Minnesota with a .25-20 with three shots from his M-92 Winchester.....and that was in 1932 when that cartridge was legal in Minnesota....it's not now.....He then used a .303 Savage and later graduated to a .308 Winchester.....certainly more than enough.
Foot pounds of energy will never replace the requirement for shot placement.....and I've never read anything about states requiring proof of hunters ability to shoot......oh.....one more thing.....I've never read or known of anyone arrested and fined for using a firearm less than the required....it seems to be one of those unenforced "rules"......which means it really don't exist.....and further, I've never heard of anyone even checked for such an infraction....one could hunt elk with a Red Ryder BB gun if he chose.....FINE.....just don't shoot their eye out!.....LMAO
There's woods smarts or cut&paste smarts...
Kent
So true.
It's never not amusing to get a lecture from someone on a subject they have no experience with.
Adams posts only further make the point; "Not all opinions are equal."
Not that anyone here needed that reminder...
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites.
Neither did any of the states.
Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link
http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot.
Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs.
Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier.
For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps.
The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one.
This thread is pretty hilarious though.
God Bless!!!
Agreed. Just might be the best post in this thread.
Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds.
First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites.
Neither did any of the states.
Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link
http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot.
Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs.
Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier.
For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps.
The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one.
This thread is pretty hilarious though.
God Bless!!!
Thanks for the laugh!
30/06 with 168 TTSX. If you plan on going over 300 yards, 168 holds its velocity better compared to the 150 the further you.
I think 168 is perfect for the 06. and its what I shoot as well.
I have the 9.3 and would have no problem shooting an elk out past 300, but I feel it is un necessary.
Shot placement/accuracy and less recoil is why Id choose the 06 for me.
Now if we were talking moose, I'd say the 9.3 Hands down.
there was a comment buried in here about the 30.06 and not good in long distance.
funny,
i have a converted rock island 1903 that has a one inch bull barrel on it. had an action job, all jeweled, pretty rifle. set up for la palma iron sights with a bunch of different sight reticules.
the guy that owned it was probably in his time in the top ten shooters at camp perry. I don't think he built that rifle for 100yard shooting.
I got another one, which i have fired yet, remington action on a one inch barrel, single shooter, in 300H&H, also set up for the same kind of sights.
My experience is not anywhere as complete as others such as kent, but i have killed elk with a 338winmag, a 300win mag, and the last one with a 30.06 and a barnes bullets. The other consideration is i have never had to fire past 100 yards. The 30.06 with that barnes bullet in it was pretty awesome.
I always think when i see this subject of a question i asked at wolfe publishing when i was hanging around there and basically poor. What rifle to buy? "They suggested a 30.06 in a left hand action. This comment was what they said "All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well." it only took me 40 years or so to figure that out after buying a lot of rifles.
there was a comment buried in here about the 30.06 and not good in long distance.
funny,
i have a converted rock island 1903 that has a one inch bull barrel on it. had an action job, all jeweled, pretty rifle. set up for la palma iron sights with a bunch of different sight reticules.
the guy that owned it was probably in his time in the top ten shooters at camp perry. I don't think he built that rifle for 100yard shooting.
I got another one, which i have not fired yet, remington action on a one inch barrel, single shooter, in 300H&H, also set up for the same kind of sights.
My experience is not anywhere as complete as others such as kent, but i have killed elk with a 338winmag, a 300win mag, and the last one with a 30.06 and a barnes bullets. The other consideration is i have never had to fire past 100 yards. The 30.06 with that barnes bullet in it was pretty awesome.
I always think when i see this subject of a question i asked at wolfe publishing when i was hanging around there and basically poor. What rifle to buy? "They suggested a 30.06 in a left hand action. This comment was what they said "All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well." it only took me 40 years or so to figure that out after buying a lot of rifles.
+1 Yes with the much improved bullets manufactured by Barnes, a hunter doesnt need that much rifle anymore. Harvested many moose,elk with 06 but then again if you want to reach out a little further you may need more rifle. Not knocking long range shooting 06 but those rifles arent shooting hunting bullets per say.
Watch out Creed! Magnumitis is flaring back up, like a bad case of hemorrhoids.
Wonder why they built them? I guess they become safe queens now LOL
I used to own 7mag, 7 weatherby mag, 300 mag and 338. All killed elk... but no better than my 3006.
The worst rodeos I had were with folks shooting my magnums vs the 06, seems they are just harder to control the shot in field conditions with less experienced shooters.
Those guns are gone, now my 'here shoot that elk' guns are my savage 99 308 and Tikka 708. My 3006 had a long run of elk and deer, best year it killed 4 elk. But it has sat for years now and I may make it into a 6.5 284.
Kent
I used to own 7mag, 7 weatherby mag, 300 mag and 338. All killed elk... but no better than my 3006.
The worst rodeos I had were with folks shooting my magnums vs the 06, seems they are just harder to control the shot in field conditions with less experienced shooters.
Those guns are gone, now my 'here shoot that elk' guns are my savage 99 308 and Tikka 708. My 3006 had a long run of elk and deer, best year it killed 4 elk. But it has sat for years now and I may make it into a 6.5 284.
Kent
kent
i have a savage 99 lightweight in .308 sitting in the gunplace. It was built in the 60's and i don't think it's had a box of shells through it. not a scratch on it. about once a year i take it out, oil it up, and say i am gonna put a sling on it and scope it, then, naw, it goes back in the case.
sat in a closet for many years in sun city.
Ron I'd love to see it someday.
The 99 was my first rifle I bought, dad found it in the paper for 100 bucks, it came with a 4x redfield wide angle. I used my high school summer ranching money. Killed my first buck with it in Tonto basin above the old Bouquet ranch ruins... He was my biggest buck, no pictures or rack, back then the old boys that taught me the outdoors didn't bother with that, I remember them bringing back large Kaibab bucks and tossing the heads out at the corrals for the dogs to drag off and chew on. Damn trophy hunters would have a heart attack now days.
Anyway that buck jumped out below me and was crossing a low ridge running full out broadside, at around 200 yards he was between junipers and I swung on him like shooting quail and fired before he disappeared over the edge and around a tree. Thought I missed and pissed, crossed over to check for blood and he was piled up on the other side of that juniper, high shoulder shot dumped him... that 99 killed a bunch of deer after that.
Like a dummy I sold that 99 after buying all those other 'better' guns. Then Enrique had an old one that I bought and setup simular. In 2010 I drew a leftover Hopi cow tag. I loaded 150gn hndy gmx, same as a barnes ttsx, to 2650mv... just because some folks say you can't kill an elk without 'knock down power'... Shot her at 175 yards, high shoulder and dumped her DRT no finishing shot needed.
Kent
I too have a Savage 99....yes in .308 Winchester.....after some repair to the extractor it functions very well and is quite accurate. My father willed it to me when he departed this world over 25 years ago. It hasn't been fired since.....and it's a presentation grade gun. Maybe it's time to put it to good use!
my son and I have killed a bunch of elk some during the rifle season but many during the bow season,some were big bulls with the bow and arrow and believe me if my bow can kill a 375 b.c. bull with an arrow,son got bigger bull this fall with his bow and arrow too.then really any of those rifle cartrigdes will work easier at much longer distances but if I was to make a choice I would just use a simple 30-06. good luck to all
I’d take a 6.5 Creedmoor using 127 Barnes LRX bullets. Far easier to shoot at distance than any mentioned, kills every bit as well (probably better past 400) and leaves no lead in that wonderful cow elk meat. Recoil is so much less as to almost be a winning criterion in and of itself.
I’m pretty sure you misunderstood the question
I understood the question perfectly.
My answer reflects my opinion, which is that if I am at the time in my hunting career where I'm picking cow elk off a ranch from a lawn chair, I will certainly be at point in my career where I would not want to shoot any rifle/cartridge combo that has more recoil than necessary. I'd sell off a rifle or two of those mentioned and get an accurate 6.5 Creedmoor to replace them. I'd find a load for that 127 LRX (not too hard to do) and fill the freezer with good, wholesome, healthy meat for the family.
Elk makes good tacos.
I understood the question perfectly.
My answer reflects my opinion, which is that if I am at the time in my hunting career where I'm picking cow elk off a ranch from a lawn chair, I will certainly be at point in my career where I would not want to shoot any rifle/cartridge combo that has more recoil than necessary. I'd sell off a rifle or two of those mentioned and get an accurate 6.5 Creedmoor to replace them. I'd find a load for that 127 LRX (not too hard to do) and fill the freezer with good, wholesome, healthy meat for the family.
Elk makes good tacos.
So the man asks our opinion as to which one of his four, a .30-06, .300 H&H, 9.3 X 62 and a .375 H&H... and your answer is 6.5 Creedmoor.
I'd say you definitely misunderstood the question...
I m bent on using monometals as it's a requirement of the ranch
30-06 / 150 TTSX
No wrong choices of the rifles listed, but I agree with Brad. My 30-06 likes 165 TTSXs and would use that. But if 150s were the most accurate in my rifle, I'd not hesitate.
Funny thread.
Yeah, it is--particularly since the original question was which rifle to pick of four, and when several people with actual elk experience suggested the .30-06, the OP said he really wanted to use the .300 H&H or 9.3x62. So why did he ask the question in the first place?
Yeah, it is--particularly since the original question was which rifle to pick of four, and when several people with actual elk experience suggested the .30-06, the OP said he really wanted to use the .300 H&H or 9.3x62. So why did he ask the question in the first place?
For much the same reason I started this thread
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...most-popular-gun-ever-built#Post12700132except that this thread in elk hunting had the extra benefit that I might actually learn something.....and I have.....that my .270 Winchester just might be added to the list based on the number of posts about lesser calibers.
Yep, because you're a rifle loony!
I'm glad he started the thread, it gave Adams a chance to regale us and explain the "rule" on ft-lbs required for quartering shots.
You can't get that kind of information anywhere else.
Ron I'd love to see it someday.
The 99 was my first rifle I bought, dad found it in the paper for 100 bucks, it came with a 4x redfield wide angle. I used my high school summer ranching money. Killed my first buck with it in Tonto basin above the old Bouquet ranch ruins... He was my biggest buck, no pictures or rack, back then the old boys that taught me the outdoors didn't bother with that, I remember them bringing back large Kaibab bucks and tossing the heads out at the corrals for the dogs to drag off and chew on. Damn trophy hunters would have a heart attack now days.
Anyway that buck jumped out below me and was crossing a low ridge running full out broadside, at around 200 yards he was between junipers and I swung on him like shooting quail and fired before he disappeared over the edge and around a tree. Thought I missed and pissed, crossed over to check for blood and he was piled up on the other side of that juniper, high shoulder shot dumped him... that 99 killed a bunch of deer after that.
Like a dummy I sold that 99 after buying all those other 'better' guns. Then Enrique had an old one that I bought and setup simular. In 2010 I drew a leftover Hopi cow tag. I loaded 150gn hndy gmx, same as a barnes ttsx, to 2650mv... just because some folks say you can't kill an elk without 'knock down power'... Shot her at 175 yards, high shoulder and dumped her DRT no finishing shot needed.
Kent
Back in my college days in the 1950s in NYC, when I had no money and no place to hunt, and not much expectation of either, I used to haunt the old Abercrombie & Fitch store on Madison Avenue. They had bunches of Savage 99s that appealed to me greatly since there were so few LH rifles back then.
Years later and having had the ability to get a few guns, I wonder why I never followed through on that one.
Norm
I'd use the 30/06 my great uncle built me.
300 HH, hands down, the 06 is a great cartridge, but as I have stated I moved up to a 300 mag, long ago, the HH has been around for ever, and it works. 180 or 200 gr, sight in for 300 yards, and that gives you a back line hold at 400. I used to do the same for my old man when he was still alive and he would end up with an elk now and then.
I haven’t read the entire thread...so 308 vs. 30-06 when hunting elk? To me, either is sufficient, just wanting to know who likes which.
300 HH, hands down, the 06 is a great cartridge, but as I have stated I moved up to a 300 mag, long ago, the HH has been around for ever, and it works. 180 or 200 gr, sight in for 300 yards, and that gives you a back line hold at 400. I used to do the same for my old man when he was still alive and he would end up with an elk now and then.
I truly like my Remington 721 in .300 H&H....but it was having trouble with sticky bolt lift and case separation....It also wouldn't group well with max loads....I was four grains down from max before it grouped well.
I bit the bullet and removed the barrel....(a lot easier said than done)...then remachined the barrel by removing one full thread (1/16th") and rented a chambering reamer to remachine the chamber to minimal headspace..,...a lot of work to resurrect an old workhorse. I also bobbed the barrel from 26" to 24 " and gave it an 11 deg crown like the Winchesters and added a Williams streamlined ramp front sight. It got a complete repolish and will be headed for a re bluing tank soon. I sure hope it worth all this.....but as they say....life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.