My 308 SPSS is almost complete, just waiting on H-S to finish the PSV096 stock. Ill be shooting this rifle in our local 600yd competition next year, it sports a Jewell trigger with an under safety, 6-24 Burris Signature, TPS 20MOA bases and steel TPS rings, now what bullet and or load should I use for 600yard shooting? Any suggestions please.

Tough I shoot Berger 175gr BT Match bullets, I'd look at either the 155gr or 168gr Bergers.

Use either Winchester or Lapua brass, Varget, Fed 210 or Wolf primers, Varget, and did I say VARGET...

Agreed with AJ. Bergers are great bullets. I use Lapua, Varget, Wolf and JLKs.

For 600, a 175 Sierra works great with Varget. Start at 41gr and work up.

Use a JLK or Berger if you want a step up on your neighbor.... at least thats what I always did.. bit more BC never hurts.

I agree 100% with Barry on this. The 175 SMK is capable of ranges much greater than 600 yards so it should work very well for your needs. The key is finding the right load for your rifle.

Oneshot

Yes they do, if you want to cull bullets...

No one at the F-Class Nationals would admit to using Sierras.

Al, that's because the folks who shot at the Nationals wanted to win.

Those shooting .308s had the following bullets that I know about:

155 Bergers
175 Bergers
185 Bergers (VLD, Long Range and Hybrid)
190 Bergers
200 Bergers (hybrid)
215 Bergers (hybrid) Not sure on this one.

180 JLK LBT

155 Lapua Scenars

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.

You can clean a MR target with Sierras. With a good barrel, they will shoot <1/2 MOA @ 600. Save yourself about $12/100 and have fun.

If we shot on MR-1 targets...

Geeze you can be half way out of the black on those hellen keller targets and still score a "10". Try that on an MR-1FC and it will be an "8".

As a training bullet they are not bad; but there is a reason why F-class shooters eschew the Sierras.

A half minute is 1/2 minute, no matter what target.

There's a boat load of people... who have shot 200-20X with 175gr SMK's.

I guess I missed that boat. Sigh.

You and me both...



Testing a new lot# of Varget. 175gr Berger BT Match at 500 yards. Target is 1" diameter, high shot is cold bore shot. Never shot groups like that using SMK's...

That's probably because you were not using the magic incantation.

All of them.... Let your rifle pick the one/s that it likes...

Have increased R15 powder to 42.5gr to make 2750 muzzle velo 29" bbl. Keeps bullet super at 1k.

Have you found RL15 to be sensitive when you get to max charges? I"m simply curious as I had issues in 223 with it but attributed to the bullets bases not being able to take the extra thump, BUT I had no real way of knowing if it wasn't RL15 being at the top of the charge area either.

I"d say from the looks of the group that its not an issue with the powder

Jeff, I've not pushed R15 to max loads in 308 or 223. I use R15 25.5gr under 69SMK 0.020" off land in a 223 bolt gun. I haven't measured velo, but no pressure or abnormal case evidence. Pretty accurat too.

That shot above that's out I called out as when I broke trigger something felt wrong with my hold. The 308 load is from Brad Suave in a piece about him at 6br.com. He used it at a past champ. tournament.

I really don't know how good my load is at 1k as I've used it in three tournaments at 1k. Is a great 600 load though! Made a Gold for me in 2010 at RCLRC NRA Regional mid-range champs.

Pat... Brads been using Varget for quite a few years. He's played around with VV powders and heavy bullets also, right now he's dinking around with 210's.

He shoots a low node with Varget, around 43gr...

Yea AJ, I know that load was w/Varget. IMO Varget and R15 are pretty much interchangable. Least thats been my experience from 308 and 223 load work. I choose the R15 due to it flowing a bit better from a measure. Which doesen't really make sense as I throw then trickle up anyhow. Which doesen't make sense as if a load is at a node from a ladder test a couple tenths don't matter or so it goes. So I could just throw from my Uniflow and be done. So I remain to the throw/trickle method.

Guess I gotta shoot some Bergers sometime. Thing is in my neck of the state Sierras are common as well as R15. Varget usually is available too, but not always. Below is c/p of that 6br info:

Tips from Brad Sauve, 2004 F-TR Nat'l Champion
With my .308, I tried A LOT of different loads in the first 600 rounds, starting with 42.0-44.5 N150 for the first 200 rounds, then moving to 44.0-45.0 Varget for the next 300 rounds. I tried different bullets (Sierra 175 MKs both moly and naked, Nosler 180gr Ballistic Tips, 175gr Bergers), different cases (Lapua, Federal), primers (Rem, CCI BR, Fed Match), and, oh yes, seating depths (on the lands to 0.10" off, and several distances in between). Even after 500 rounds of testing, I still wasn't satisfied, and frankly, I was growing weary.

I finally found my "sweetheart" load on February 14, 2000 (Valentines Day), almost seven months after getting the rifle. This is the load I still shoot today and I shot all weekend at the F-Class Nationals. The break-through came when I discovered that slower velocities produced outstanding accuracy. I found that Varget pushing a 175 SMK at about 2610 fps delivered quarter-MOA groups out to 300 yards and half-minute or better groups beyond that distance. Since developing that load, I've used Lapua cases and Russian primers, but the core elements, 43.0 grains Varget with 175 MKs seated 0.018" off the lands, has not changed.

During the first few years I owned the rifle, I was crazy about cleaning. My log shows that I cleaned the barrel 80 times in the first 998 rounds. That works out to cleaning every dozen rounds! No wonder it took me so long to find the right load! Boy, have I changed my habits. I still clean the barrel, but I run a much higher round count between cleanings than before. Now, I shoot 100-200 rounds before I give the barrel a thorough cleaning. This goes with my general thinking--that some folks will benefit from added trigger time more than anything else. Spend more time shooting than loading 'perfect' ammunition or cleaning. Squeezing that last quarter-minute out of your groups won't do you any good if you can't hold one MOA or you can't read wind conditions.

Also AJ, been considering Camp Grayling and asking for some input from you about F-TR there. About 450 miles if I drive around the lake. Or I could take a slow boat across from Manitowoc and save miles but add time. So, any thoughts for the Camp?

That article by Brad is pretty dated. He's about a fickle as a benchrest shooter when it comes to bullets and powders. He went through the 155gr phase a couple of years ago, had a gain twist barrel spun up and played with the heavies last year. Now he has a 10 twist barrel and has been experimenting with 210's since comming back from the nationals.

From my experience I've had to push RL15 pretty hard or have issues with carbon build up. Plus I've had to add a couple of MOA to my 600 yard zero when the weather is below freezing so I've stayed with Varget. I talked to Dale Carpenter at the nationals about heavies and RL15, he had the same experience as I did.

It's up to you when considering taking the ferry across. They don't give those tickets away. Guess it depends on how much time you have. I drove around going to Lodi, some of our gang took the ferry.

Camp grayling... They set the range up for the matches on Friday night and then run a practice session. It's limited to about a 30 minute relay and then a pit change. We shoot matches both Saturday and Sunday, you can shoot either or both. A couple of guys camp out in a parking lot next to the range or you can stay in the barracks. Guns aren't allowed on the base cantonment area (except when driving through) so if you stay on base guns are left with the guys camping or I've taken guns back to the motel with me. If you plan on comming you need to email the match director a few weeks in advance so he can add your name to the base access list. We drive through the base cantonment area to get to the range, no one drives the back way to the range. If you plan on comming let me know!

Appreciate the load info AJ, thanks bud. I'm going to keep an eye on CG tournaments for 2012. I sure do need more (much more) 1k experience. Lodi always has some early one day shoots where we F-C shooters are mixed in with the Palma and AROS folks.

gorskij, I hope some of the bullet info here has helped. Good looking rifle you have there too!

I would start out with the 155 class bullet they are easy to tune and you should be able to get a load worked up in no time. My preference is for the 155 Lapua Sceners... The world long range 600 yard small group was shot with them.

I would pass on the 175 SMK they have the same BC as the scenars, bergers and new 155 SMK but the 155's can be run 2-3 hundred feet faster. Faster with the same BC means less wind drift.

They like jump and the bullet won't be stuffed beyond the neck shoulder junction taking up precious powder space like the heaver offerings.

If you want to go heavier the 185's is the next step lots of people shoot the 185 berger with good results. The other offering is the 180 JLK. I am only aware of 2 people that compete with this round FTR Shooter and a friend of mine you can ask FTR how he likes them. My buddy does alright and knows how to steer his rifle. He switched FROM the 185 berger.

210 I have heard lots of talk from shooters but they all come back to the same answer the 210's recoil and torque require really precise hold. The UK guys seem to being playing with them more then us North American guys