My son and I both have 224 Valkyries and we have practically identical problems with them at the moment . I thought some of the smart fellas here would have some advice on how to deal with these issues.

On both of our rifles, after firing they don't extract and once fired it is extremely difficult to remove the brass using the charging handle most of the time unless the rifle has a few minutes to cool, then it comes out but with a bit of effort. We both have Radian barrels and my son has a Radian BCG and mine is from Right to Bear, but can't remember the manufacturer at the moment..

Would an adjustable gas block handle this issue or is something else going on here? Any help appreciated

TIA,
Bob

There's not much body taper in that case. I can see where it would be prone to that type of problem, especially in a semiauto.

Never had any issues with mine.
Maybe lucky?

Couple thoughts came to mind but I need some input as I'm pretty new to ARs in general. Would a polish job on the chamber make any difference with this issue? And does anyone make a Small Base die for the Valkyrie?

Sounds like a rough chamber issue.
A rough chamber in the summer months can easily be caused by surface rust (even in gun SS) in the chamber, going from cold to hot (AC to 100 degrees) will get you sweat or condensation. Check the fired brass for a sand blasted look, or rings either indicate a rough area in the chamber. Light oil, 0000 steel wool on a loop jag with an electric hand drill, to polish the inside of the chamber then clean throughly, going chamber to muzzle.

Used to see this all the time here in FL during the summer, an hour or so trip to range in vehicle with AC, get out in the heat. A fired round will not release from inside the chamber.

Maybe the guns are undergassed and partially extracting cases and jamming them back in? Or maybe the extractor spring is weak and the extractor is slipping off the case? Maybe a sticky/weak ejector problem too.

Checked the brass closely and these are brand new rifles we just finished putting together. Dry weather here for at least the last couple months and not a lot of humidity to cause internal rust and no visual rust indications so I think that is probably not a big possibility. Polishing the chamber might hold some merit though, even though the brass wasn't showing any signs of issues except for no extraction, by gassed bolt or by manually pulling the charging handle until the brass cooled for a bit.

Not a weak extractor spring or extractor grip as when the loaded rounds are inserted and removed everything works smoothly- except for a few bullets of a different style I need to seat deeper as they were jamming into the lands and stuck. Very difficult to extract manually. Once the rounds are fired, the BCG can't be manually pulled back because they are locked onto the brass so tightly.

One positive though, is that both of these rifles are very accurate so far. Once we get this issue figured out I'm confident these will be great coyote getters....

Anyone else had this problem? I found that RCBS makes a small base die for the Valkyrie- worth a try?

Bob

I think I'd talk to the barrel manufacturer before doing anything else. They might be aware of some issue they've experienced lately, like a bad reamer or something of that nature.

Another possibility is a brass problem. Maybe it's too soft. Have you looked closely at a fired and extracted case? You say "Checked the brass closely" but we can't exactly be sure what you mean by that.

Using Starline brass in my AR and my son bought several different brands of ammo, mostly Hornady for his and both have the same problem. You might be onto something with the barrel- both are Radian barrels, which are regarded usually as excellent, but anything could happen. I ordered an RCBS small base die set and I'll give that a try before moving to any other more aggressive measures for now... the wait begins

That makes me suspect that maybe it's a headspace issue, not a bullet seating issue. The brass should be sized down enough so that 10 (empty) pieces out of a sample of 10 should smoothly chamber & eject manually.

Could be a trim length issue too.

ETA: The chamber may be cut small in some way. Usually, they are small in the headspace dimension.

Pretty sure it isn't a headspace issue. Unfired rounds load and extract just fine and fire just fine also. Fired rounds in my son's don't eject and are difficult to pull out manually with the charging handle until they have cooled a bit. Mine is the same symptoms, but fired rounds will pull out manually with the charging handle a bit easier most of the time.

I'm thinking Montana Marine has a good idea of what is going on, but a little experimenting is about the only way to find our for sure. If the small base die doesn't clear this up, the rifles will both be going back to the barrel manufacturer to see what is happening and hopefully, get them fixed...

Another thing I didn't consider is my son was using factory ammo with new brass and I was using new Starline brass loaded without resizing, as I usually do. In any case, some fiddling is needed and I'm a great fiddler sometimes... other times I invent new adult words...

I don't think the small based die is going to help...but I've thought wrong before.

Good luck with it. Update us us along the way!

That's right. If unfired cases chamber & eject smoothly by hand, it's not a sizing or brass/chamber size issue of any sort.

I think I'd spend the measly few $$ on a Teslong and take a peek at the chamber.

What length barrel & what length gas system?

Pull the barrel, polish the chamber & measure the gas port size in the barrel & report back.

Everything points to being under gassed, IMO.

MM

I dropped a couple fired cases in the chamber and they manually extracted just fine. I'll pull the barrel in the morning if I have time and check those items along with polishing the chamber a bit. It may be a few days before I get out to fire it again though.

Barrel is an 20" from Radian Rifles and we are both using rifle length gas tubes. Both seemed to fit fine when installed- no cause for head scratching putting these together. But I have been wondering about the gas port issue a bit so I'll be looking at that closely and report back.

Bob

Rifle length buffer tube?

MM, I've never shot a AR with it's gas system disabled, but they do that in Europe. I haven't heard reports that extraction is difficult because of that. Do you have first hand experience with this?

I have when adjusting gas blocks, only a couple of weeks ago. I had no difficulty extracting fired cases by pulling the charging handle back.

don't dismiss headspace problems. if that case stretches out, jamming the bolt lugs tight against the extension, and the shoulder is jammed in the throat, it's going to be hell extracting via charging handle. i have built around 15 .224 Valk's and quit using Radians.
check extracted case dimensions carefully. another chambering that suffers this same thing is the .458 socom. have had this problem about 50/50 with the 458.

Lesson learned the hard way!
On a DIY build, BEFORE you install a barrel, scrub the living daylights out of the barrel, especially the chamber area!
Apparently, when they "mag-phos" the barrel, they don't plug the bore or chamber. I go in with a bore brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool and liberally soaked with WD40 chucked up in a drill.
Remember, WD40 is a solvent first, a lubricant second.
Clean the barrel thoroughly inside before installation.

I've know guys who swear they only use FL dies when loading for a semi automatic!
I've NEVER had any luck doing that! 😖
For all my semi auto's, I use RCBS "SB" dies. (SB = Small Base) SB dies return a case to factory dimensions.

MuleDeer told me one time he only neck sized cases for a No.1 Ruger.
I have a No.1 in .270. If the case is only neck sized, it won't chamber easily....and it WILL NOT extract without a cleaning rod. All cases have to be full length sized for that rifle.

That's why I'm thinking either a chamber defect (roughness, pitting, or radial grooves/scratches) or partial extraction and re-insertion while the case is still expanding.

So, you're saying it's endemic to the case design?

A couple things come to mind after reading this discussion. Radian stopped offering the 224 Valkyrie- possibly because of these issues? Also, the more I think on this- the brass won't extract with gas when fired and won't extract manually until a short time after firing- 10-30 seconds after once it has cooled, then it will usually manually extract with the charging handle. That seems to indicate a chamber geometry issue IMO, which may or may not clean up with a chamber polishing but if it is so severe, it may take more than a polishing.

I'll still try the small base dies to start with, then go with more aggressive methods as I move forward to see which one has the desired effect. It is interesting to see I'm not the only one who has had this problem and my son has found several articles/forums that have reported this problem with the Valkyrie... I'll let you know how things progress

Nope, I always try really hard to make my semi-autos function in that mode..............don't want any single shot AR's.

Really hard to say w/o being there & & handling the gun. i think a 20" barrel is a bit better with a +1" rifle gas system, but it SHOULD fuction as is, all things being equal & correct.

As to the HS as a possible issue; if it's very short, it's unlikely that a Go-Gauge would close...............I've had that happen exactly once on 25-30, 5.56 barrels.

Could be a throat neck issue though......................never had exactly this same issue on an AR so really hard to know, absent the gun in hand, but 2 of them at the same time is highly suspicious.

MM

I had an idea of how to polish the chamber but I'm curious what you guys use for this chore and how to go about it without damaging the chamber?

0000 steel wool wrapped around a bore brush. Maybe some Remington 40X bore cleaner or Kroil mixed with JB polish paste slathered on the steel wool. Short section of pistol cleaning rod in a drill and some sort of collar over the rod so as to keep it from hitting anything unwanted.

I've been shooting a 6.8mm Rem SPC (parent case for the .224 Valkyrie) for several years now.
I shoot 90% reloads and have no extraction problems.
I also use SB dies.

Sounds like a gas issue, or insufficient gas to reliably cycle the cartridge out of the chamber when firing. I'd double check gas block alignment. Next thing to check is hole diameter in the barrel. If it's too small or there is any other type of restriction, that may be the problem. I'd run a regular gas block. Leave the AGB with someone else, if that is what you are trying to use. There's really no reason to run an AGB unless you are shooting suppressed.

OP, please post whenever you get a resolution to this problem.

If polishing the chamber & checking the size of the gas port (should probably be somewhere between about .093-.103"), then I'm going to bet that you have a chamber that may be on the small size, thus not allowing the round to be extracted until the brass shrinks as it's cooled enough to be removed.

The minimum taper case in a tight chamber combination could be the root cause, taken together, not allowing the brass to change size fast enough because of reduced clearance in the cold condition.

Don't know anything about Radian barrels so can't comment on that item..........the rest of their stuff is nice, but also expensive.

When that round 1st came out, as I recall, there were some problems with barrels from various suppliers, especially regarding accuracy.

Paul Craddock at Craddock Precision, was one of the guys who figured out the chamber & the gas port size pretty early on & as far as I know, his barrels have all been good.

If you can't resolve the problem with chamber polishing & verifying the gas port, if it was me, I'd be telling Radian that you have 2 barrels with the exact same issue & send them back & order new one from Craddock.

I giving you the benefit of the doubt & assuming that all the rest of your build & gas systems are OK.

MM

I may have to check with the neighbor who is a retired machinist to see if he has a set of pin gauges so I can check the gas port and the chamber diameter. Checked the brass with a mic and there is just shy of .010" taper in the case, so you're right on that issue and I can see where a chamber even slightly out of spec could cause a real problem

We have built several .223s with the same parts minus the barrels and have had good luck with all the components so far- to include excellent accuracy.

SB dies are due in on Thursday so I'll throw some loads together quickly, polish the chamber, and check the gas port and run to the range on Friday if I can squeeze it in and see how my results are. I'll post results after the range trip and actions to take after...

Since you've been using virgin brass I doubt that SB dies are going to fix the problem.

If the brass base diameter is the problem, usually brass won't chamber easily.

You can measure the gas port close enough to know if you have a problem with a set of calipers very carefully with fine tips on the ID side.

MM

Is there an easy way to check headspace without Go/No Go gauges? I hate to invest in these gauges I may never use again for this, but it may be necessary in this case....

I sincerely do not believe it's a headspace issue. An AR will crush a 223 at least 3 thou if it has to. That is something that won't chamber slowly, by hand without resorting to the FA.

You'd be better served getting a Hornady headspace tool and checking the difference between unfired and fired case headspace measurements.

Well, hopefully we're getting it narrowed down....

Do they jam every time or just sometimes? How is ejection when they function?

Every fired case is stuck in the chamber until it cools, then it extracts manually with some effort. Extraction and ejection after that and with unfired rounds is perfect otherwise. My thought at the moment is chamber issues of some sort. My son watched while I fired his rifle and the bolt tried to pull back but couldn't move more than a little bit when firing.

What Tyrone said about headspace; almost positively not a HS issue.

If the bolt is attempting to move, besides what all I've already said about straight cases & chamber dimensions, if your gun had enough gas & with a sticky case, seems likely to me that you would be ripping some cases rims off............but you haven't reported that.

So as I suggested earlier, get a dimension check on the gas port in the barrel as a 1st to do.

Shouldn't take more than a few minutes to disassemble, check & polish the chamber.

I would not do anything more until you do that as you are chasing your tail. Eliminate one variable at a time.

MM

That's why I believe the BCG is moving partially back and then moving forward, jamming the partially extracted case back into the chamber. We are on the same page.

I had this problem with a 6Arc, McGowan barrel.
I had to split the recievers and tap the case out with a cleaning rod.

Fired a handful of rounds thinking it might improve. Cases were not frosty and chamber looked smooth.

Considered polishing the chamber and decided to call McGowan, ultimately sent it back and they took care of it.

Sounds like you have tight chamber, which is good. It might improve as at least yours will eject when it cools, mine would not.

Good luck

They make chamber hones specifically for this.


Edit, not seeing one for a valkyrie, doesn't mean they are not out there.

https://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c2=183

Maybe a 6.8mm will work?

Measured the port and it seems to be around .101 or so without resorting to pin gauges... I'm out of steel wool at the moment so a run to the store for a couple other things and the steel wool also...

Now swap out your carrier with a known good.

I don't have a second 224/6.8 carrier laying around to try....

If this is a problem that developed over time, it's likely that something started to leak. IME, that is usually the gas key.

If you don't have another BCG, take the one you have apart, clean the gas key mating surface, use sealant on the mating area, and tie it down with new screws. Throw some new rings on the bolt while you are at it.

Gas keys themselves don't have to be replaced very often, unless their alignment with the gas tube was really horrible. I usually only replace gas tubes with every other barreling unless, again, their alignment was horrible. But you'll be able to tell by looking at either if they have excessive wear on them.

As I understood from his OP, he has 2 of these same barrels on newly built guns that malfunction exactly the same.

MM

Yup, two brand new guns just finished. First time shooting both of them. We built a couple 223s last year and they function flawlessly and are extremely accurate.

Polished the chamber a bit today, but I may give it another shot tomorrow to be sure I got it well enough. Soaked the steel wool with Iosso bore cleaner and some gun oil and ran the drill for about 2 minutes in the chamber with moderate pressure. It polished it up quite a bit and I'm hesitant to put a mirror finish on it, but that may be what is needed in this case.

My small base dies got delayed and come in tomorrow so I'll load up some ammo with the small base dies and the standard dies just for kicks and giggles to see if there is any difference. Needed another set of dies anyway for my son to start reloading.

Oil/grease your ammo. If the slippery stuff ejects, your chamber needs work.

Steel wool will take two lifetimes to get anywhere.

Yup, I realize that, but I'm taking it slow and easy to determine the issue and then go from there. My thought is to wrap some 2000/3000 grit wet/dry automotive sand paper soaked in oil around my brush and try running that for a bit to move a tiny amount of metal in the chamber. At this point I've got very little to lose and everything to gain...

Same brand of BCGs? I don't know.

DLA, that's a great idea. Unless there are flaws that go beyond polishing like pits or radial grooves, in which case the evidence should be apparent on the fired brass.

Since you built it you could take it back apart and reassemble.

Tried all that and didn't make a difference. I'm quite sure it isn't a gas or assembly issue. I'm convinced it is a chamber issue. I polished the chamber and loaded some ammo with a Small base die but haven't had a chance to take it out and try it . The monsoon rains have started and deer hunting came up so, it's just a matter of finding the time to get out and shoot it with the small mods I have done to see if they helped at all. Also trying to build a shop building on our new property in the meantime so I've had to prioritize to keep things moving along.

But did you lube the ammo? It is absolutely the simplest thing to try.
If you have a bad headspace problem, lubing the ammo won't do anything. If you have a rough chamber, lubing it make it run and eject nicely. If it is also undergassed, it will eject but not pickup the next round.

But if you can't make time to shoot it, maybe none of this matters.

sounds like load to hot, wouldbe if you jamming bullets into throat. LOL