Looking for opinions on which AR15 (not AR10) caliber other than .223/5.56 is best for my deer hunting and why. For my scenario, the rifle will be used for fairly large bodied whitetail deer and 95% of the shots will be 100 yards or less.
I would like to limit to factory available calibers although they don't have to be widely available. Custom uppers are ok. Here is a list of some calibers I am considering:
6.5 Grendel
6.8 SPC
7.62x39
.30 Rem AR
.458 SOCOM
.450 Bushmaster
.50 Beowulf
.243 WSSM
.25 WSSM
I'm sure any of them would do the job if put in the right place. But am trying to consider other factors such as needed barrel length, weight, recoil, expense, etc.
Seems to me that the WSSM's would need at least a 22" barrel to be worth it and I'm prefering something around 18" or less. Right now, my frontrunners are the 6.8 SPC and .458 SOCOM. Not sure how the new Remington round would compare to the 6.8 SPC. Given my limiting factors of short range shooting and large deer, I'm leaning towards the .458 SOCOM. But then again, I've also never actually shot anything other than the 5.56 through an AR yet. Maybe the SOCOM is more than I need (whatever that means).
I know there is a great deal of real world hunting experience regarding this subject around here.
Thanks
Buckhorn

The 6.8 SPC is developing a good reputation as a hunting round.
See http://68forums.com/forums/index.php (free registration required)

6.8 SPC or 25 WSSM. The former being the easiest to get set up for.

I have a 6.8 upper on back order right now for a stalking/deer drive rifle but dang the ballistics look pretty impressive on the 450 Bushmaster. Packs as much punch as the 458 SOCOM but with a flatter trajectory. Hmmmmm.

6.8 spc

As you stated, all of them will do the job and there are no varying degrees of dead.

That said, I have a 6.8 SPC Extreme upper due to show up sometime in the rear future for the same intended purpose as you. Eventually, I'll also have a WSSM from DTECH. I'm going to build that one "for the boy".

George

The 25 sounds pretty impressive. I am thinking about a 6.8 too.

I'm gonna go the wizzim rout as soon as I get caught up on the bills.

Thanks for the info so far guys. I keep changing my mind, although I'll likely end up with at least a couple of the above eventually.
Between the SOCOM, Bushmaster & Beowulf, the SOCOM seems best to me because of greater potential for handloading as an option.
I like the 25 WSSM from DTECH. However, I'm just wondering how long a barrel you need to get a real benefit versus something like the 6.8 SPC at less than 100 yards? Also, would there be more of a muzzle blast/noise issue with that round from a shorter barrel compared to the others?

IF you are worried about cost, I think the 7.62x39 should be on the top of the list. Cheaper to plink, cheaper to shoot, and should put a hurting on anything within 200 yards. Looked at the other rounds for bigger animals, but i was looking at at least 75 cents per round for any of them. The x39 is half of that.

7.62x39 is a really good all around deer round, a version of 30-30 power IMHO basically. Which is good. Nephew and I have dinked a LOT of game with his. Including my dusting a coyote at just under 500 yards with it. While I don't just blast, he and his father love wasting ammo, the cheap stuff is good for that.

But if 95% of my shots are under 100 yards and max out to about 250, I'll grab my 50 beowulf every last time.
That being said I'd take the 458 socom/450 bushmaster or 50 beowulf and not blink between the 3, though now after haveing the 50, I'd probably go the 45 caliber route bullet wise just cause....
But I've had SUPER luck with Barnes 50 cal bullets. They just work wonders. Every last deer/pig I've shot in the ribs has run with them. But none over 30 yards.

Beyond the above, if I was thinking longer distances, hands down a 24 inch 25 wssm would be high on the list.

I like my 243 WSSM. It's a faster 243 rather than a slower 25. Lots of good bullets available for 6mm stuff, so that's not an issue. No re-seating factory ammo with the 243 WSSM like is recommended for the 25 WSSM, either. The next upper in my future will be either a 35 WSSM or a 204. Most likely the 35.

I've only shot a half dozen or so pigs with my Beowulf. I believe all were shot using 300 grain Gold Dots and Lil Gun. They were all DRT.

Lots of times shot placement is the difference in DRT.... I have never purposely hit bone. I just prefer not to.

IF I have to have DRT, I shoot the head. And do that often enough just depending.

Just have never done it with the 50 yet...

I suspect if I shoulder dinged one with a 275 barnes, I'd have DRT also.

I know 3 guys shooting the 25WSSM and while it can be picky on loads it seems to be big medicine... DTECH built at least 2 of these and the other one may be a Dan Carey build.

The 243WSSM should be very good also.

you left out a fine choice, the 5.56X45 cartridge.

Thats what I will use this coming deer season. I have settled on a hand loaded 64 grain Winchester SP in new Hornady cases, and using H335 powder. Easy MOA groups at 100 yards with my Bushmaster XM15.

My bottom line choice between 25 and 243 wssm when it gets that time will depend on the availability, of and BC of TSX or Etips in each caliber. IE I know the 85 tsx works great and very accurate.... IF I can't get what I think should work in the 25, then it'll be a 243 maybe... though I already have a 6mm woa....

I have the 458SOCOM in a 16'' barrel on a Cavalry Arms Thermoplastic lower and at 6.5 lbs. it is very handy in the woods and with a heavy buffer, recoil is no more stout than a 20 gauge auto. And with Hornady now selling the LEVERevolution line of bullets in .458 it has a very extensive line of bullets for just about any situation. IMO, the 450BM and 50 BeoWolf are just as good but have a more limited range of bullets to chose from.

I'm also looking at my next build (when prices come back down to sanity) and a 6.5 Grendel in a 18-20" barrel is very appealing with excellent close and long range performance on deer size game to go with a good selection of bullets.

The WSSM's do look very good, but I keep hearing that they operate at the limit of the AR's pressure handling capability. Does anyone know if that is true? Would we have to reduce loads for the WSSM in an AR? Also, how big is the case head and is it so big it weakens the bolt? I agree that the WSSM's appear to be the hot ticket, but I think there needs to be some answers before I jump on board.

IMO, the 6.8SPC is a better performing 7.62X39 with a greater range of bullet choices and a little better long range performance. The new 30 RemAR is somewhat limited to 7.62X39 weight bullets so much so that it seems to be more of an improved 7,62X39 than a really new cartridge.

Before I start getting flamed, I am no expert, just a hobbyist and these are JMHO. I would just like to see some technical discussion on the WSSM's before we crown them the best hunting cartridge for the AR.

I've run 60kpsi IE top pressure loads in 223 in the AR from appx 1986 through 2003 to the tune of between 8 and 20K rounds a year.

Probably more on th average of 58kpsi or so comparatively speaking.

Haven't hurt a thing to this point in time.

Just FYI. No guarantees, as they say, YMMV.

Can't stand .277 caliber so thats out for me....

I have to wonder why all of the AR 15 manufactrurers don't make a wssm. Do they all know something we don't.

I would guess that it's a question of demand. The wast majority of AR-15s sold are .223/5.56 1:9 16 inch CM barrels. It's a lot cheaper to feed at AR with .223 than with WSSM anything.

For those that use ARs in competition, they will not even look at WSSM. So that would only leave the AR-15 hunters.

There are dozens of AR chambered rounds that the major manufacturers don't offer. The WSSM's require a modified bolt and modified magazine and are single stack. As said above that limits them to hunters for the most part as the AR's main sales are with the tactical rounds where mags are plentiful, ammo cheap and parts interchangeable.

Hardly anyone offers the 7.62x39. The major manufacturers stick with the .223/5.56 and 6.8spc. Only a few even venture out to the Grendel and RRA and BM are about the only major manufacturers offering one of the big bores.

I'm sure if Winchester ever built one they'd offer it in wssm....

Well, since Winchester belongs to FN and FN builds the M16 and the M4... Boy does it get confusing these days.

FN doesn't build the M4, Colt has the sole contract for that one.

Unless I missed something along the way...

You are very right, my bad. Age and mileage do that to you.

There are a surprising number of bullets to chose from in 50 cal, owing possibly to the 500 Smith. Barnes makes three, Sierra a couple, Hornady at least two, Speer two or three, and then there are the specialty, copper clads, and hard cast.

Not knowing but I would guess that many or at least some of the bullets available for the 458 Socom would have to be passed over due to inadequate case capacity for any meaningful performance once seated to depth.

I've been told by Mike Milli, owner of Dtech, that the WSSM's are prefectly safe in the AR platform. Any dialing down of loads are to effect proper gas operation and not for safe pressure concerns. Even then, most loads shot in my WSSM are at or near the top of load recommendations. Factory loads in my 243 WSSM have not been an issue in the least and are accurate to very accurate, with no telltale indications of pressure on the brass. I would have to compare the bolts in my guns side by side to say for certain, but it seems to me the bolt out of my WSSM is beefier than a .223 bolt.

More and much better information would be easily obtained by contacting Mike Milli at Dtech. He is the expert on all things WSSM pertaining to the AR.

Mike Milli can make you pretty much anything WSSM...

And he does great work...

anything dealing with proper gas function, is a function of port size. Size it correctly for its use, and you won't be fiddling with reducing loads... or use an adj gas tube or weight system for what I call bandaids..

a 351 Winchester would be nice.

AR15, as well as M16 rounds are designed to kill and injure HUMANS, NOT WILD ANIMALS; do yourself and the game you hunt a favor, and go get another gun to kill game with; I have had discussions in many forums about people buying military/defense WEAPONS (GET it?) WEAPONS, to go hunt with, and it's all crap;
BUT, ammo manufacturers make the legal rounds, so where do you stop it, and why;

The reason for making a round (case,powder,bullet), is to be able to HUMANELY kill game; this caliber sucks at it;

Actually, Jeff, reducing loads, except for a grain or so is not what I meant. Mike never mentioned or indicated any need for reduced loads but rather suggested powders with a pressure curve that ran the gas system better than others. A WSSM runs about 20 grains more powder than a 223. That may add an issue too.

You don't reload, huh?

It may be ok for game up to varmints, but is not ok for killing deer or anything bigger; Many of you might think I am wrong, but you go do some serious research, and you will find that the .223
is very marginal on deer; And that means that they get shot up, and run away; I personally have killed humans with this round;
I am an avid hunter; I have always been a protestor of this round for game; It just doesn't have enough stopping power for larger animals ( a 100 lb. whitetail has more than quadruple the strength of a human); These rounds were developed to shoot people; enough said

yes, RICKYD, I reload; I reload 22-250, 270 win, and 7MM mag;I dont even shoot .223 at anything

Yep. I think you're wrong. How "serious" was your research?

our research on deer in 223 is showing that its a superb round. One can't count how many thousands of deer die DRT on the spot with that round each year.

One would be foolish to say its not a deer round. In fact stupid with the right projectiles, distances and shot placement its an easy 200 yard round.

Friend of ours took a 173BC buck with hers this year and regularly sends photos of hogs of 200 and up with her 223. Of course she shot with us in competition with her AR15 for years but now uses a Rem 700....

As far as your research if you don't shoot the 223 at anything, you have no business trying to post what it can or can't do. You can guess what it might do but thats about it....


Ricky, yeah I missed the burn rate, but even with 20 grains more powder, its like the AR10... the gas port has to be sized correctly. Its a direct system so it can't meter....Powder burn rate is always an issue, even with a 223....

that sounds like something that would come from an arkansan...
what exactly is "an M16 round"?
the M16/ AR is a platform. a weapons system.
thats like saying a remington 700 round.
The AR-15 platform has been chambered in everything from 22lr to 50 beowulf.
All readers please note that it is standard practice in the great state of AR to shoot deer from under corn feeders while sitting inside your pickup ( all the while lisnin' to da hawgs play) with nothing less than a 300 Ultamag that is perfectly zero'd from all of 25 yards.
mike, you cant gut shoot one with big enough bullet to equal a well placed and well constructed .224.

Actually, and its an aside and I dont' believe in it, but I've seen it too many times with my own eyes, you can hit em in the guts with enough.

An old gentleman here shot all his deer with a 220 swift and one of the light expanding bullets loaded hot, lets just say 4000 fps plus for sure. Shot every one of his deer in the flanks broadside and never had to trail a one.. DRT every last one of them. That HAD to be shock value.
I dont' condone and never did condone that because I thought of suffering, but lets just say his DRT deer moved less than some of my head shot DRT deer did... VERY dead. Right now.

But an aside.... and I'm not averse to a corn feeder or vehicle, heck most of my deer are meat anyway, who cares how they are shot if legal.... we've shot em off the front porch in rocking chairs...

But the right 224 bullet in the right place does wonders... probably wouldn't want to try a cape buff or such with one...

You have probably all heard the story about Roy Weatherby and a cohort who went to Africa with a 257 Wby, right after it came out, and gut shot about every variety of plainsgame they could find. Everyone of the animals died quickly. I don't remember how many were DRT, but it was a bunch. They actually used that as a selling point in soem ads and I remember seeing them, though it is hardly a defensible practice......unless you're using a 257 WBY, I guess.

That said, the last time I was down to Texas pig hunting I shot a nice little boar of about 150 lbs a bit too far back with my 460 Smith. It was on the trot through a bunch of trees, but the 260 Partition put him right down and he wasn't getting up. I did a finishing head shot when I saw he hadn't expired after I walked the 110 yards to him.

Gut shots don't always result in lost game and I believe the weapon and ammo used is the reason.

The ammo used is what I can't handle, needs to be frangible fast ammo, I don't hunt with ammo like that. Doesn't fit my train of thought at all.

That being said a buddy uses 60 Sierra flat base HPs in his 223 AR on pigs... doesn't really matter where they hit, they die and right quick... but they haven't run into one over 90 pounds so far.....

Rost the "research" I was referring to was the research that this "Mike" guy said he's done...I got no problem with .223's on deer. I was useing one well before I joined the forum.

MM

Wasn't directed at you... I should have the steelhead sig line... warning I use quick reply at random. And that was my point, he didn't do any research. And how can you comment if you've never shot a deer with it.

Jeff