Never used them, bought a box and its marked "Varmint" use on top of the box! Guess I will use the 65 grain GameKing. My new rifle does not like the 64 grain powerpoints!

Yeah I bet the 70gr is the same hardness/toughness as there other standard 50-55gr bullets but because of the heavier weight and lower velocity it still will do an okay job. I have taken several "smaller" Texas deer with the 70gr speer and it never let me down. Even at 22-250 velocities.

I have not taken any game with the 65 SGK but I bet it will be a great choice!

Yeah I was disappointed to see that when I ordered some as well.

To read the reviews on MidwayUSA you sure wouldn't know this was a varmint bullet! I wonder if they've recently reworked the design, or if as Ruger280 suggests they're just thick enough to do the job at 223/AR speeds?

I've heard really good things about both Sierra 65 gr GKs (HP & SP versions I mean).

I am going to just load the 65 gamekings and call it good. Speer has lost my bullet business for a good long while now.

Then why did you ask about them?

Hornady considers their A-Max slugs "Match" bullets and even posts warnings about their use on game on their website.

Folks still kill critters with them just fine.

I fail to see how a 63g Sierra will be any better of a deer bullet.

I like the 65 grain SGK over 27 grains of Varget. It's my .223 deer load.

I asked about them to "vent". Midsouth does not have much information on their website.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000211053

The 65 grain Gameking may or may not be a better bullet for deer but the Sierra technician said "broadside shots for 140-150 pound deer OK, just don't take any knuckle shots.

Jim if you have any problem with my posts please put me on ignore.

Again Speer does not advertise the 70gr as a big game bullet but I assure you under those conditions you just described from the Sierra tech about the 65 SGK the speer will work fine too.

Not sure what difference it might make at my ranges but I like the B.C. on the SGK way better

Based upon the reviews of the 70 gr Speer on MidwayUSA, I'm not hesitating to run them deep into deer in spite of the label.

I do think I'll email speer to see if they've been recently redesigned, however...

You do a lot of that.

Ask a stupid question get a reply and make it evident you are not smart enough to understand the answers.

I will not put you on ignore because frankly you need to be told how dumb many of your posts are.

You have the IQ of a fence post.

I don't think any knuckle joint would ever stop that 70 from a 223. Often, in spite of themselves, bullet makers don't actually shoot their bullets enough into game to know the real truth from the field.

I have been looking for a good Sierra .223 load. Thanks! I loaded some 60gr Vmax-s with Varget. Shot well, almost no recoil, but I don't have confidencde in that bullet.

Now to Cabelas for the 65 gr.!

I don't know who the people are who are MORE worthy of "ignore"; the ones who ask stupid questions and make ignorant comments, or the ones who feel some moral obligation to call them on it.

Seems like an obnoxiousness tie.

Hey Jim, my IQ is most probably higher than yours. Too bad your momma didn't raise you to be polite or a gentlemen. Then its none of your business what I post, and other here don't seem offended, so I suspect its a personal problem you have. Would someone besides Jim let me know how it is if a fellow makes a statement about a bullet that is labeled "Varmint" to his surprise that it offends people and is a dumb post? If anyone is offended by this statement besides Jim62 please let me know. Jim sorry I did not reply earlier I was hunting this weekend, it was primitive weapons in Georgia.

I don't know if anyone cares or not, but here is the reply I got from Ben Ammonette re: info on RL15 pushing the bullet that is/was the subject of conversation here:

I suggest starting with 23 grs and the max should be approx 24.5 to 25
grs. Thanks for your note and have a nice day.

jimmyp- my buddy was in the mnts of N. Ga. this weekend hunting deer, black bear, and feral pigs w/ the front-loader. He has done pretty well the last couple of years, but the weather was a bit windy for much movement. A few years ago I was down for that hunt... what country you have! I loved it!! Good luck in future endeavors...

the one to use is the dual cored Nosler Partition 60 gr softpoint. The Partition, in all calibers, has been the gold standard for penetration (with expansion) for 50 years now. Just pay the extra money and get the real deal, that's all. You don't need many. 200 bullets and a couple of hours of reloading and you'll have a lifetime supply of deer ammo for the 223. :-)

To the OP

I have used the speer 70 grain for deer in the 223 and 22-250 and never had problems with penetration. Shoulder blades haven't caused any trouble with them either, even at 22-250 velocities.

Unless speer redesigned them, fear not about using them.

I have a copy of the speer manual volume 11 circa 1987 and says under the page for 222 rem data that the "70 grain semi spitzer makes the 222 suitable for small deer and antelope at modest ranges" take that with as many grains of salt as you like.

I believe they have always said Varmint on the box. Shouldn't discount all the people that have actually used them just because of the box.

Barnes go out of business???? LOL

Shooters Pro Shop always has the 64 grain Bonded on sale as a 2nd or an overstock.

SMKs don't say hunting. Bergers used to not either....