I'm in the market for a light AR in 308/7.62. I think I have narrowed it down to two models, Armalite 10A4 and Bushmaster MOE. They are about the same weight and same price. Any opinions? I like accuracy, accuracy and reliability.

I would choose the Armalite over the Bushmaster. But I'm a biased Armalite AR-10 owner.

Any reason other than that's what you own?

I don't have any experience with those particular models but unfortunately have a lot of experience with other Bushmasters and think they are junk. For that reason I would say buy the Armalite.

OK, this is what I need to hear(read). Can you be more specific, what do you mean by "Junk".

Thanks

this Armalite has since lost its muzzle brake, and gained a free float tube, but it still shoots this well:

I have experience with 19 Bushmaster Dissipator Rifles that were purchased to be patrol rifles. We had to send 9 of them back to the factory because of headspace problems. Not enough headspace was causing FTE problems. None of them had the carrier keys staked and several were loose out of the box. 3 had serious gas leakage problems at the gas block. One had the FSB mounted so far off from center that the rifle could not be zeroed. We started having bolt lugs breaking under 5000 rounds. I have replaced most of the small parts with Colt parts and replaced 6 barrels so far. It has been a struggle but with a lot of work and parts replacement they are finally reliable enough to be used.
In my opinion it is criminal that a company would let firearms out the door with that many problems that someone's life may depend on.
Bushmaster has had a reputation of having QC problems. There are people out there that have been happy with Bushmaster products and if so good for them but after my experience with them I will not purchase any of their guns.

Thanks AK, almost sounds like Bushmaster is run by Ruger.

Actually they are owned by Remington.

Yeah, I know, but Ruger is the only company I know of that has zero QC.

I am not fond of Bushmaster either, same thing poor quality control in the one, only and last one I will ever buy from them. RRA has a 308 I think.

Yeah my RRA LAR-8 with 3-9x40 Conquest is a slightly under 11 lbs with an empty poly mag. Not the shooter I was hoping for yet but I have not had a lot of time to mess with it much. It will do 1.5" 5-rounds groups easy enough. I have only shot 165 and 168 ballistic tips so far, I may try a 180gr and 150gr to see what it likes best. SMKs or some other match hollow points may shoot tighter too.

Have two Bushmasters. Both are outstanding quality and they are very accurate.

By the same parent company.

With the complaints I'm reading about current Marlin and Remington QA, I think the decision between those two brands gets easier and easier...

DF

Save a little and buy a LMT, They cost more because they are worth it. You will be glad you did...........dj

How does Lewis stack up against Rock River?

DF

Better trigger, better upper - monolithic, better lower - takes AR-10 mags, interchangeable barells. Std mil issue (British L129a1). Pretty much better in every way I can think of other than it costs more............dj

I would not own a Bushmaster or RR 308 AR because they take FAL magazines. That design weakens the bolt.

Armalite used to have a good engineering explanation of the problems associated with FAL magazines in a rotating bolt firearm (that Bushmaster actually did encounter with their 308 AR), but darned if I can find it anymore.

The RR 308s have been out for several years now with additional changes and upgrades over the previous bushmaster model. Why don't we see some actual internet gac on rifles with broken bolts or lugs because of the weak design like Armalite claims?

I had an AR-10T, sent it back to the factory twice and sold it. My friend has a Bushmaster and has done the same. They told him that some of his parts (that are subbed out) were out of spec. You ought to hear him cuss when it jams. You have to bring a steel rod, a hammer, and a 2X4 to the range! Either could be an A+ gun or it could be a dog.

My story. I bought the AR 10T and the first round I fired jammed the bullet in the barrel. It went back to Armalite. I got it back and it would jam at least 1 round a box. It jammed after it ejected the spent round on a live round. You'd have to put a screwdriver in the action and smack it to open it. I sent it back again. They replaced the gas works. the bolt, and changed the feed ramp. This all on a new gun that left the factory non functioning. I got it back and sold it. Never again. I don't even want another AR platform rifle.

I satisfied my military rifle itch with a M1A supermatch. That goes off every time and shoots well. It is not as smooth. You can feel the krang krang as it cycles that you don't with the AR but it works! I have been looking for other designs for a .223 that are not AR platform. Maybe a Rock Rive LAR with a piston drive system instead of gasworks. I know LaRue and Stag Arms have a lot of fans for their ARs. It's something to think on. The ammo is a lot cheaper to have fun with.

If you do some searches you will find there were reports of bolts breaking in the Bushmaster 308. That design was actually made by Rock River for Bushmaster at the time. It used FAL mags and it appears that rotary bolts and FAL mags do not play well together. The bolt breakage was at the tail end of the bolt and Bushmaster replaced the bolts. There appears to have been a revised model of the bolt to deal with that issue at some point.

I believe Bushmaster discontinued their 308 models, and RRA started selling it themselves. I don't think the bolt breakage issue is valid anymore but it was predicted by Westrom of Armalite and it did occur precisely for the reasons he pointed out, according to folks at the falfiles.

I have not seen Westrom's article so I can't speak to that, but I also note that the AR-10 uses modified M14 magazines and more recently Armalite is selling their Gen II magazines for what I consider fairly competitive prices.

I have no issues buying the exact magazine made for the rifle. I buy Sig mags for my pistols, etc.

Like you pointed out, I'm not sure at what point the bolt design changed but I have not seen any RRA LAR-8 bolt failures that I can find and they still use FAL mags. You can't buy a new Bushmaster 308 of the old RRA design that your are refering to with failures anymore so not really an option anyway. I noticed Bushmaster has a 308 again but I am sure it is the same as the DPMS-Remington since it is all the same parent company.

I use cheap thermold FAL mags in my RRA 308 and not had any jams or any failures of any kind with them.

I don't even know anybody who is shooting either of those rifles, much less putting several thousand rounds a year through them. I'll bet DPMS sells more 308 ARs than RR & Bushmaster combined.

I read on another site the other day that the govt has reopened the search for a 308 AR, seems the Knights Armament version has been giving some trouble, maybe Mackay can give some insight since he has been trained buy KAC to work on them.

My money is on the LMT for the next govt contract but in my own safe sits a 308 bolt gun, I had fit's with my Armalite carbean over timing issues. I wouldn't have a dpms, BM, Rem or RR.

The Brits went with it, we might as well LMT too!

Isn't the LMT basically a refined/upgraded Armalite AR-10?

Pretty much.

I bought an AR-10B when they first came out. I did a lot of reading, carefully comparing them to what was then available (Knight).
The Knight's seemed to come with better barrels, but I think to this day the Armalite design is the best engineered and most durable. Refining that is icing on the cake.

I don't have either rifle or have I ever shot one. But I do own a RR LAR-8 and have put over 400 round through it with out one hicup. It is accurate 1moa with the right load and has shot everything I've put through it 2moa or better. That being said they have no compatibility with any after market parts besides the ones sold by RockRiver.

For that reason it is for sale. PM me if you want it. I will give you a good price.)

Testing handloads today with 155 Matchkings, in the SASS upper AR10. 1st shot was a called flyer, the next 4 went into 5/8" at 100 yards. That was my best group of the day with it.

I bought a Nightforce out of the classifieds here, and I reckon it's about time to put a Timney trigger in the 10. It will be interesting to see what it can really do.

Get the LMT MWS. LMT's quality is unquestionable. You can swap the barrel out in about 60 seconds time with a different length or caliber such as .260 The monolithic rail is great and the thing is built like a tank.

I'm sure LMT has good stuff, but the base rifle is $2800, and the quick change barrels are $700 each. I've got about $2600-2700 in my AR-10, with two complete uppers.

You can find a "base LMT" for around $2300, but you're right, quality isn't cheap.