I'm not familiar with the AR-15 platform. But, before they triple in price I want to purchase a .308 on the AR platform...like the AR-10.

I want the longest, heaviest barrel I can get, and top notch components to complete the rifle. IOW, I want a tack-driving .308 built on the AR platform. Money is no object; I'm prepared to spend what I need to spend to get the very best rifle I can possibly get.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

LMT or LWRC? They would be my first two choices.

Are those companies that produce the weapon?

GA Precision GAP-10.

They can make that "money no object".......an object. And you will have one of the most accurate and well built .308 AR's available.

the DPMS LR-308 meets your requirements of a 24" long Varmint barrel and is a tackdriver. It is relatively affordable - so it may not meet you "money is no object" criteria....spend more on the scope!!!

No offense but comparing a dpms to a GAP is like entering your yugo into NASCAR...

Magnum
What you going to use this rifle for?
I have an Armalite AR10t straight out of the box. I replaced the tigger with a Jard, put an IOR 10X scope on it and it does every thing I want.
Mainly putting holes in yogurt lids at 500 yards.

Jim

Why don't you have White Oak precision or Bob Whitley build you one?

Very, very true.

Or buying a SAKO TRG and putting a Leapers 4x ninja sniper scope on it(using the rings that came with your kids airgun of course) .

I was not comparing the two in any way - just offering an option...

Tundra,

Just teasing, hence the smiley...

In all seriousness though, Gardner has a good reputation. He is not the only wrench out there, but he has earned a reputation for turning out a solid product.

Oh,

I forgot to mention to Magnum in regards to his statement about longest and heaviest barrel. Having used the platform a bit in a work capacity, I would reconsider "longest and heaviest".

My suggestion would be a factory M110 type profile in 20"s. You are not really going to gain much from a practical standpoint beyond that. What you will do is make a rifle that is very burdensome and difficult to manage. 308 ARs are not light to begin with.

If you are looking to steady the rifle, and do not think you can get steady enough off of a bipod, I would suggest a track plate. Mount it on your free float handguard, behind the stud for the bipod. They do not weigh much (get an aluminum one)and ride well over bags, backpacks, etc.

For rifles with rounded forends, it will help out a lot to make sure you are not canting your rifle to one side or the other.

Hope that helps some.

Montana barrel makes the SASS barrels, they will shoot well under moa. I would have no issues with buying a SASS.

Depends on what he wants to do with it. If he want's to shoot 1,000 a 20" barrel is really not optimal.

Money no object? Research a few of the smiths listed. Then write down what YOU want to do with the gun. Then listen to them and let them build. They'll give you what you need, but nothing more basically... yet it'll be more than enough if that makes sense, but you have to be honest with what your needs are...

Agreed on GA quality - fantastic.....but you might be in for a long wait.....

Waits never bothered me when I was serious... i expect the best and generally have to wait a bit for it. Have waited over a year for a barrel blank... not that big of a deal.

And if the SHTF in the meantime, you don't need MOA gnat, you need MOH (human) which is aobut any tube....

A few months ago I was ringing the schit out of an iron maiden using a DPMS SASS loaded with Rem factory 175gr 308 @ 1000yd. No problem

Didn't say it couldn't be done, in fact Grant Singley won a LR Service Rifle title at Perry with an M110 20" rifle last year.

But if you think it is the best choice for LR, you are sadly misinformed. Unless that iron target was about 10" in diameter, simply hitting an iron target @1,000 is a long way from being competitive.

Consistently winning performance impresses me.

Dood didn't state he was after a match rifle or a "stunt" rifle, nor did he say anything about half-mile plus shots. The SASS is already heavy enough and not overly portable, but it is affordable and the damn thing works.

No, he did say:
Sorry, but a DPMS SASS does not fit that request in any way that I can see.

A guy that wants the best and is willing to pay for the best isn't going to be happy with an off-the-shelf DPMS just like a guy that wants a Calfee .22 isn't going to be happy with a Remington Viper.

Do you own any barrels made by Montana Barrel? Have you ever fired a DPMS SASS? Have you ever carried a DPMS SASS?

I took everything the OP said with grain of salt once I read that he didn't know anything about AR15's but wanted an AR10. He's basically saying that he doesn't know what he wants.

The easiest way to get a good result is to order a GAP10 and be done with it.

If it were me I'd look hard at the LMT offerings. But I'm not an expert, and money is an object for me.

You read palms too?

I said I wasn't that familiar with the AR platform, but that I wanted a .308 built on the AR platform. I don't have a bit of faith in the .223; I do have faith in the .308. I stated I wanted a tack-driver. Weight doesn't concern me that much.

I thank all of you for your gracious replies, they were indeed helpful. I'm going to order a GAP 10 and choose their heaviest, longest barrel. I DO know what I want to do with it, BTW. And, money is an object when you start getting into the ridiculous. If I wanted to I could spend 5K on an AR in .338 Lapua, .408 CheyTac or 50 BMG. I don't want to spend that much, plus the .308 will handle everything inside of 500 yards and .308 ammo is plentiful unlike the .338, .408 and 50 BMG. I have a bolt gun for anything beyond that.

Don't go beyond 26 inch barrel IMHO, years of testing on the AR15 platform showed the 28 plus tubes to be a bit rough on the AL housing of the upper and just didn't quite perform as we'd have liked. Go back to 26 and you got back to the accuracy you wanted....

No, I don't. But with your lack of information in you OP, it would have been useful. You had absolutely no info on what your purpose was. It sounded like you were a yahoo with too much money that wanted the "best", whatever that is.

Even if that were the case, how is that any of your business?

Rost,

I'm going to go with a 24" barrel.

Get a good barbell and some bumper plates to go with it, you'll need 'em.

For top accuracy you might look into the Les Baer with the Monolithic upper, they come with an accuracy guarantee.

For very good accuracy and easily interchangeable barrels the LMT is nice but I think the Baer would likely be more accurate. ( I have Baers in 223 and Lmt's in 223 and 308).........dj

Won't be any heavier than a few of my 26 and 28 inch bolt guns....

I think the GAP10 is fine choice and you will likely be quite happy with it overall.

BTW,

In regards to 20" tubes I have qual'd on movers using an SR25 WTFOT and did not consider the 20" tube an issue. The cartridge is more of an issue past a certain distance in windy conditions than a couple of inches of tube.

It is possible to keep your bullets supersonic @ 1,000 with a 20" tube. It is far easier with a 24".

Let's face it. The 308 is not the best cartridge made for shooting long range. Shorter tubes just make it that much less than ideal.

A 24" barrel isn't necessarily heavy either. Depends on the contour.

A 24" barrel will be heavier, balance different, and not be a significant gain in velocity compared to a 20". 20-22" is the optimal length barrel for .308's assuming you are going to do more than shoot it from a bench. An 18" barrel can get a bullet to 1000 yards supersonic. A 20" will do it with no problem.

Really, an 18 inch can get a bullet to 1000 supersonic without issues?

Well I know a 20 inch 223 can too, if you do every thing just right.

But my 26 inch 308 is better and it. And we know a short barrel is a stiff one and usually more accurate.

But answer me why the long range 1000 yard shooters are not using an 18 inch tube on their 308s. F Class included?

I don't know. I'm reading this thread and I am agog. Are we talking at 5000 feet elevation here?

If you mean weight training I already do. I have my entire adult life. Of course, I'm 52, and there are any number of people on this forum alone who would argue that I'm not an adult yet.

Here you go:
http://762sass.com/product.php?p=493&cid=9&session=259de151a9bf8bed3eafa7b364fd84f9

Made by Armalite. The last I knew, they were still in stock. kwg

I would think that if you're gonna run the 308 from 500 in, personally I would go with something lightweight with an 18" barrel...

Easier to maneuver, quick handling, easier to mount and dismount from a vehicle, etc...

I have a JP LRP-07H with an 18" barrel and it shoots MOA or better out to 800 yards easily... Its lightweight and handles excellent...

Just another option to look at...

Geez FTR, aren't you glad to receive this info so you can change the error of your ways?

You just been doing it all wrong, what with those long barrels and heavy charges of Varget. Just WAY overkill. Probably WAY over penetrate the paper targets too.

Interesting that when folks state a desire IE bull barrel, others try to steer them away.

I don't think the question was bull or no, rather manufacturer etc...

I prefer heavy guns. I have a few light ones for specific tasks, but generally speaking I like heavy. And before I get slammed for being a TX stand hunter, I generally walk at least a mile or more to get to my blinds. And we often hunt on foot some if its slow hunting, through. I realize thats not nearly as much as others cover but a heavy gun isn't that much of a burden IMHO. Excepting in the mountains... but then again my 54MZ ain't light, I suspect its close to 10 pounds all up...

I am a wimp Jeff, I can carry the heavy ones but prefer a light carbine. I been there and done that with heavy semi auto 308 rifles, I buy them, try to like them and then sell them. I guess I don't live in a place where you can see to shoot 500 yards at a live animal so the 5.56 has enough horsepower at close range for my uses.

So this sums it up: I drink Jack Daniels, have tried Basil Hayden's and Johnny Walker Blue, but there not that much more to my palate that I wish to spend the money on them, and they all get you drunk. I don't care for Jim Beam however, nor Evan Williams, and I hate Popov Vodka.

SCAR 17

Ya missed the point really Jimmy, the guy asked for heavy. Had he not had his mind made up the light weight points would have been well taken. At least IMHO. Help the guy wiht his questions, and assume he is smart enough to know why he wants some thigns but has questions on others. I"ve no issues with light guns at all, as noted I have a few and they get used at times. Of course my main competition AR weighed 18 pounds and I shot it for years and am used to heavy. Doesn't mean I use heavy all the time. But I"ve walked almost all day with a 26 inch MTU contour 308 and Mc A5 stock... never felt overly heavy to me...

On the other note, Jack is ok, prefer beam black, Laphroaig. Won't touch Crown, thats nasty... don't do vodka either. Will do knob creek and Makers though.. grins.. we all do have our preferences.. so yes, point taken too!

Jeff

Barry, you are correct. I am learning things on this thread but I am old and crochety and I don't change my ways very easily. Just ask my wife. (Yes, I am always wrong, even when she's not around.) And you owe me a new flat panel for putting out such funny posts without adequate warning.

Maybe I should change and go to a shorter barrel. That way I would not have to fold the rear seat in my SUV to accomodate my rifle when I drive to the match. And as stated earlier, it would make it easier to get out of the vehicle and that's important. Also, If I had a shorter barrel, I could shout MOA at 800 yards and more all the time.

Gosh, I have been doing it all wrong, haven't I?

I have no illusions about the AR-10 I am building; 600 yards is all I will expect from its 20 inch barrel. I will not be working up LR match loads with boutique bullets for 1000 yards for that rifle.

And Barry, you are right; I'm sure my LR match loads over penetrate the paper at 1000. They could probably go two or three sheets of paper.

I want a heavy barrel to soak up recoil.

My Weatherby 30-378 AI has a Vais Muzzle Brake, 2 mercury recoil reducers bedded into the fore-stock, and is literally filled with Brownell's Steel Bed. It is heavy. But I can shoot it all day because there is hardly any recoil. I don't like recoil; it induces a flinch in me, then I have to take the 10-22 and work the flinch out. 1)Shoot, 2)recoil, 3)flinch, 4)remedial trigger control and follow through 101 w/10-22, 5)then back to shooting big guns again. Why not avoid steps 2, 3 & 4 and just put in place all measures possible to reduce recoil? Heavy rifles don't bother me. I don't mind carrying them, although I haven't tried carrying my Weatherby up and down mountains.

Take a look at Colt.They have a new offering,that excepts Pmags.Fully floated.

Mr. dood--I'd keep this in mind. This is a good point. I'd rather go a bit heavier contour, than extra length, to accomplish what you are trying to.

As far as accuracy...you said you'll stay inside of 500. A heavy 20" to 22" will get you where you want to be.

308 is perfect with a full-bull 24" if you are willing to lug it around....18" on a 308 is a velocity compromise a lot more than a 20" in my experience. For what - 2", thats not going to save much weight but will increase muzzleblast a lot more and decrease range a lot more than it increases weight. Like said if weight is a big issue (which the OP indicated was NOT) not reason to go Full-bull 20-24".

Just curious MD, have you given any thought to any other cartridges on this platform? Someone posted pictures of a GAP chambered in a Creedmoore recently that looked very interesting.

Terry

Both US and Brittish forces are fielding AR's in 308 with barrel lengths of less then 20 inches and running them effectively out to 800 meters.I've owned Ar's with 24 inch barrels,it defeats the reason for having an AR in the first place.

I beg to differ. If length is the limiting factor, then get an SKS and cut it down to 16.5" and rock on. It's accurate enough inside 100 yards to hit a chest size target. I know, I had my best friend, who is a gunsmith and a master machinist, cut the barrel of my Norinco SKS down to 16.5", add a KDF muzzle brake and reassemble it. It is a handy little rascal and does double duty as my house gun. I did a legal modification that enables it to accept detachable magazines. Inside 100 yds, for a SHTF weapon I would not hesitate to grab it.

The AR, to me, is modular in design, allowing changes that can be made by a shade-tree gunsmith such as myself. It accepts hi-cap magazines, and is as portable as anything in the field. If I had the $$$ I'd get a .338 Lapua on the AR platform, but, money is an object when the rifle alone costs $5K. I actually do have the $$$, I just cannot see spending that just to get a detachable magazine-fed rifle in such an esoteric cartridge. .308 is plentiful and reasonably priced enough to shoot. .338 Lapua not so much. Besides, I have a heavy bolt gun for loooong shots. I could get a 24" bull barrel, but that would be a custom order and it would take 6 to 8 months. I elected to use GAP's 24" barrel and cut the delivery time at least in half if not a third.

I gave a lot of thought to it Terry. I elected to go with the .308 because I've shot quite a bit of .308 through a series of M1As I've owned over the years, and the ammunition is plentiful, plus I have the reloading dies for .308.

I think we got sidetracked here - the 308 CAN do the "magic" 1000yds ok - out of a 24" AR its can do 800m in a heartbeat, repeatedly without losing sight picture. I have short barreled AR's (26" 20" 16" 7-1/2") but the 24" for a 308 is perfect for me (LR-308) for that purpose - fast repeated hits to 800.

If I need to go further....I would use another caliber - and not an AR...as said its cost-prohibitive.If I want short range the AR pistol is super fast and clay target accurate to a 100 with every round in the magazine with a red-dot sight. One aint gonna do it all - except compromise - just gotta pick whats important to you.

Paraphrazing here but "I want the best, longest barreled 308 AR that I can get".

The man was pretty clear and I believe he got what he wanted and doesn't have to suffer anything dpms. Life is good!

LOL. George Gardner and crew build their weapons like tanks, and they are accurate all day long with just about anything you feed them, especially if you're slinging match-grade .308 ammunition.

GA Precision builds a FINE rifle - but his products are still susceptible to the laws of physics and short barrels (22" and less) suffer from velocity loss that severy hamper their range. Just depends on what one wants to do - if you dont wanna use most of the range potential, no problem - there are no accuracy issues with shorter barrels, just more drop and less energy.

If money was no object for me, I would have something else, but until now the 24" DPMS has done fine achieving half-minute groups.

Your DPMS shoots 2.5 inch groups at 500 yards consistently? I"m curious cause if thats the fact, they must be using a a really top notch barrel.

Thanks for that input.

Sigh. I wish I could shoot half-MOA all the time at 500 yards with my .308 match rifle. I would be winning all kinds of matches and setting records.

I'm throwing the bullschit flag on that.

Crap, and I was just thinking I should use a DPMS instead of my my rifle. So much for those plans.

Denys

You are getting confused again.. he said the gun could shoot the group, not that he could. Grins on that one. And big difference there unfortunately... everytime you put me in the formula accuracy gets worse... grins.

Thanks for setting me straight, here I was thinking the gun had magical capabilities and would help my shooting.

once i found the load my dpms lr-308 with s.s 24" fluted barrel liked. it will shoot 1/2" groups.
gong plates out to 800 yards is a simple task. i took some guys from work a few weeks back, and everyone of them was hitting it.

one guy liked my lr so much he went and bought one. he couldn't wait for a fluted one to show up, so he bought just the straight 24" s.s. bull barrel.
he got it last week, and loves it.

Thanks for calling me a liar. F&^%^ Y&^

Look up Newtown Firearms in Placerville, they are making possibly the best AR on the planet. They machine the whole assembly out of billet material. Lots of government snipers using them.

They'll guarantee something like a 2" group at 600 yds.

I did, and from what I can tell they only produce AR's in .223.

Maybe I looked at the wrong site but I only saw sub moa guarantee, a polished sear and hammer with JP springs or a Timney trigger, billet upper and lower, a piston system, 1/9 twisted barrels, a heavy "match" carrier and fitted Les Baer bolts and barrel extensions. No mention of who's barrels they are using.

Nothing to write home about and a lot that I don't want in an AR.

That's the site I looked at as well.