I'm getting ready to purchase an optic for my rock m4 I have a few questions. My rifle will be a patrol rifle and used daily.

I'm interested I

n the aimpoint micro t1, the ML2, and the ML3. I know the aimpoint is very popular and is a quality site, but I'm not sure which to get. I'm leaning towards the micro t1, but have no experience with it.

My second question is 2moa dot or 4moa? Any pro's or con's with the size of dot or is it personal preference?

Thanks

I'm going with an Aimpoint 3x tripler behind my old Aimpoint ML3, but all that is over a grand with Larue mounts.

I think the most bang for the buck is a 1-4X scope ( it HAS to be a true 1X, NO magnification on the lowest setting for a combat rifle to slow you down). I think the Burris XTR is the best out there for under a grand (under $700 online). The Larue LT104 is the top shelf mount, but a forward mount like the new Leupold IMS mount with Leupy QRW rings would do as well for less $$$. This is the exact setup I'm putting on a new 3-gun rifle.

I've owned the M2, ML3 and an H1 micro. The ML3 had the 2 MOA dot while the others had a 4 MOA dot. I would probably do the 2 MOA dot if I had it to do again but my current H1 is plenty accurate enough for what I use it for. I use red dots for speed and scopes for accuracy cause my eyes have a slight astignatism, which blooms the dot a tad.

I really like the Micro series and just FYI, the H1 is a bit cheaper than the T1. It's for non night vision like the ML series.

my older ML3

I did the T1 but if NV is not in your future then H1 is the same thing. I did the 4MOA T1 and find with my eyes it's equivalent in performance to the 2MOA Comp ML3 I have on another rifle. I hit gallon milk jugs at 100 yard prone with both rifles and mil surp ammo.

If you prefer smaller dot, H1/T1 are available now in 2 moa dot.
Fast enough for short range, cover less of target when going farther. good sight.

Dom

Question for you TAK, having run a 1.5-5 Leupold and run my Aimpoints with the front cover closed, how does the Bindon Aiming Concept fit in with the "true" 1 power theory? As long as the red dot is there I fail to see why a true 1x is needed for fast work. Thinking ACOG w/4x mag as well.

I've also been thinking about trying a Trijicon 1-4 which is supposed to be a true 1x and has to be better than any Burris...

So is the micro h1 just as good a tactical optic as the t1 sans the nv capability?

You can say that, the T1 as four (4) night vision lighting positions, the H1 none and the T1 is fully submercible to 25 meters, the H1 only to 5 meters maximum.

Energy consumption is the same except the NV position ot T1 which give 500000 hours of use.

Since 9th of march 2012, both models are available in 2 moa.

Dom

The 4X ACOGS suck balls inside 25yd, they are painfully slow. IMO, the very critical eye relief is the major problem that slows you down, but I watched a PJ drop to prone and clean 20 8in head plates with 20 shots at 150yd a few days ago so everything is a trade off. In an urban environment, I'd want an Aimpoint T1 mounted in a "one o'clock" mount to go with an ACOG.

The Bindon Aiming concept appears to work for some and not others (weak eye dominance?) The BAC works great on my 1.5X ACOG Mini, but I've not done timed tests against an Aimpoint with it yet.

Maybe YOU can do fast work with a 1.5-4X scope. I've learned a long time ago that a sighting system that rocks for one guy doesn't work as well for another. As a general rule, I'd say ANY magnification is undesireable, IMO.

A lot of 3-gunners really like the Trijicon 1-4X, just make sure you order the correct one, they make two, one is optimized for an AR (eye relief, IIRC). If you zeroed the tip of the triangle at 50/200, and figured out what the drop was to the bottom of the triangle, you'd have have an effective sight for probably as far as most of us have an business shooting.

Don't discount the Burris XTR scopes, they are US made, with good glass.

BAC is dependent on an individuals eyesight. In any case there is a point of impact shift between closed and open. It may or may not be enough to matter for your uses. For me it's a 4-6 in shift at 25 yards. That doesn't work for most of my requirements.


Also there are no true 1x or zero magnification scope. They all have some level of magnification. The Trijicon TR24 is a solid 1-4x, I wouldn't use the Burris again....








Yes.





Actually the T1 is tested to 25m. The H1 are not tested to 25m, but they are built the same.

I ran a 4x ACOG and didn't like it either but it was daylight black and illuminated at night only. Didn't know how the fiber optic ones were. Have heard the 3x is a nice compromise with better eye relief.

I guess I'm lucky as BAC seems to work for me, might look harder at the Trijicon 1-4's.

Thanks for your thoughts.

i just looked at the 3.5x trijicon. its lighter with its mount than my 1-4 NF in larue mount. The eye relief was not too bad. the red dots are nice but a green laser with a 3.5 trijicon might be best for me. Is a laser slower?

[quote=Formidilosus]


Also there are no true 1x or zero magnification scope. They all have some level of magnification

I'm tellin' ya, the 1-4x Burris XTR has NO magnification on 1x, it is just as fast as an Aimpoint.

I ended up getting a t1 with a 2 now

The T1 Micro on a DD ridged for my "service" rifle

The only thing I didn't like was the price $$$$$$ WOW

Ted how u like the mount?

I think it's great... I have no need for a quick disconnect and wanted rock solid and ultra light...... There is no better than the DD in those regards the sights 1/2 moa adjustments I wish we're 1/4 but should be fine for cyotes and groundhogs from the truck

Looks like ya made your choice. For anyone else thinking about a T-1, I just want to mention the 4moa dot is not that big. And I find it easier to pick up targets with the larger dot in shoot houses. Unless you have an astigmatism (sp?), the larger dot will be fine in my opinion.

The reason I mention this, is that with the 2moa being available now, a lot of guys are selling their old T-1s fairly cheap to switch to the 2moa. And those things are tanks. I also called Aimpoint and they assured me that it does not matter if you're the original owner or not and they don't need a receipt. An Aimpoint product breaks, they fix/replace free.

I would go with the Aimpoint

PRO
Comp M3 or ML3
Comp4

I like the larger FOV over the T1,H1 series.

Those are excellent optics. But if used properly, both eyes open and directly behind the optic, the outer "ring" all but disappears. FOV shouldn't come in to play much.

I dont think you look through the T-1 you look at it and at your target with both eyes open it obscures much less of the scene than do the larger aimpoints. I don't peer thru a red dot like a rifle scope when shooting at 50 yards or under.

Both eyes open with correct check weld and the T1's housing disapears all I hear is steel gongs ringing

trucks, guns, southeast mo. say it ain't so

ted are those magpul stocks and forearm?

UTG free float for with magpul everything else

While it may seem that way, there is not a single 1x-blank scope made that has "0" magnification. The S&B 1-8x Shortdot is very close. If you doubt this try reading a newspaper while looking through the scope with the paper held about arms length in front of the objective. Then do the same with an Aimpoint. Although I don't know why you would have to do this unless you have a weird issue with your eyesight, as it is plain to see while looking at close targets (10-20ft distance) that there is a difference between images with bare eyes and looking through the scope.


I have used the Burris XTR extensively. As well as all three versions of the S&B ShortDot 1-4x, Meopta K-Dot 1-4x, GRSC 1-4 and 1-6, Leupold 1.1-8x CQBSS, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x, Ziess VV 1.1-4x, Trijicon TR24 1-4x, and just about every other low power variable suitable for use on an M4. While some are better then others, and a couple are truly outstanding, none are as fast as an Aimpoint or EoTech.

I said basicly the same thing a year or two ago when SWFA came out with their 1-4 scope and was told I didn't know what I was talking about. Good to see I'm not the only one

Yeah, I think Formid has confused one of the many cheaper Burris imports with the XTR. Bruce Piatt runs one one his 3-gun rifle, or at least he has in the past, as most of the top tier guys have gone to 1-6x scopes this year.

The typical 1-4 scopes are also heavy, I picked up a 3.5X trijicon the other day it seemed a lot lighter than my 1-4 Nightforce. The new SWFA 1-6 is 22 ounces IIRC without the mount! If I am going to scope another rifle it will be either a traditional 1 inch rifle scope or an ACOG. I won't ever get another 1-4.

I am not confused. I know exactly which Burris you are referring. Additionally I know what optic Bruce is using as I shoot with him several times a year.

There are no 1x optics that are truly 1x. They are all 1.something x.

"There are no 1x optics that are truly 1x. They are all 1.something x."

And for clarity, this is what I was agreeing with.