By "best value", I am looking for a combination of price and performance. Some of the models I have considered are Leupold VX R Patrol, Leupold VX-3 1.5-5, Vortex Viper PST 1-4, Nikon M223 1-4, Nikon African, Burris XTR (probably above my price range if new), etc.

How important is the 30mm vs. 1" construction for what is mainly a hobby rifle? Also, how important is an illuminated reticle in case the weapon is ever pressed into service?

Thanks.

Price wise this a little below the others that you have mentioned but I have been really impressed with the Weaver V3, 1-3 that I have on my AR. Adjustments track great, very durable thus far, very clear as well. Of course a little more wouldn't hurt but for the money it is hard to go wrong with this one.

Nick

I'm considering a Burris E1 2-7. Anybody have experience with one? Gives a little more on the top end if you can deal if 2x on the bottom.

Midway has the export version of the 1-4x XTR on sale currently.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/81...ted-xtr-ballistic-556-gen2-reticle-matte

If the XTR is too pricy, consider the Burris MTAC 1-4x24 at around $400

All are good scopes for the money. I honestly don't think 30mm vs 1" makes a lick of difference in durability - just pick the scope you like for features and get whatever rings fit it's tube size.

I just picked up that Viper PST for my AR, and most of those you mentioned were on my short list. I also A-B compared it to the FFP SWFA 1-4 (at SWFA). FWIW, the SWFA offering is slightly more robust and a few oz heavier, has an extra bright setting for illumination in bright sunlight, and $300 more expensive. I really like the PST reticle, illumination for dusk piggy hunts, price, and warranty. I thought the eyebox and glass compared favorably to the Trijicon accupoint, which I think has great glass and an interesting no-battery reticle system but is nearly twice as expensive. Only downside really is the illumination is NOT readily visible in bright sun like a red dot, especially on lighter colored targets. However, on really dark targets or looking into shadows, the reticle lights up enough to provide great contrast - and still shows up "black" on light targets. For me this was just fine. Always best if you can do a side by side comparison, but that's not easy for a lot of us.

Also to be considered is the mount. I splurged on a Bobro quick release mount (comparable to the Larue 104 in weight and performance), and am really glad I did. With the scope mounted all the way forward in the mount, I have a lot of flexibility in quickly moving it along the receiver top. Though I didn't think at first this would be very useful, as I was not planning on moving it once set, being able to tweak the scope location depending on how stretched or compressed my stock is set is really neat. For example, when I want to take my 10yo son to the range and collapse the stock for better LOP, the optic can easily be moved with good retained zero and maintain proper eye relief.

Best,
C.

I now have 4 Leupold VX-1 1x4 Turkey/Muzzleloader scopes. Two have the Heavy Duplex, only available from the Custom Shop. The other two have the Pig Plex reticle, which in the VX-2 is some $500. None cost more than $235. Not tactical, but then who really needs a TAC scope? Three of them are on AR's, while the 4th is on a GSR. Good quality and have the old VX-2 glass as a really good price. The Pig-Plex has a nice Ballistic-plex like stadia wires for shots to 400-500 yards depending on the cartridge.

I considered the MTAC, but I came to the conclusion that I did not like the looks of the MTAC reticle. I guess I should look at one in person before I make this judgment, but just from pictures that I saw on the Internet, including actual photos through the scope, the reticle just looks too "in your face" for my tastes. Is it better in real life?

Here is a look at the MTAC reticle:

I am running a Bushnell Elite 3200 1.5x4.5x32mm Firefly Rifle Scope on my 16" Bushmaster M4 ORC. I have had this scope on my Bushmaster since day one with zero problems. I carry this Bushmaster daily in my patrol vehicle but also use it as my main Coyote Calling Carbine.

In South Dakota Electronic Reticle Scopes for Hunting used to fall under our spotlight law and as such can only be used from sunrise to sunset. Just this past year that law was changed and now electronic sights are legal for hunting in South Dakota.

The Bushnell Elite 3200 Firefly Riflescope is not electronic but rather simply shining a flashlight into the eye piece illuminates the special reticle that glows a soft green.

I would call this a Tri Plex Reticle as there are 3 different thicknesses of crosshair. The outter two thicknesses of crosshair are the only thing that illuminates though. Now that we can use Electronic Reticles in optics for Hunting in South Dakota I really see no need to upgrade from my Bushnell Elite 3200 as it has given me years of good service and is continuing to do so.

Larry

I just put an MTAC on my AR and so far, am extremely satisfied with it.

John

The nikon african with a #4 reticle interests me. I've been tossing that around for a while now. Seems to be well suited for an AR. Might just do it.

I have a 1.5-5 Leupold illuminated VX3 in a Larue mount that has been used heavily. It saw more use in an average rotation in the middle east, than a typical optic would likely see in 10 lifetimes stateside.

It did it rotation after rotation, getting tons of kit and weapons piled on top of it at times too (when not being carried)and never had a shift in zero.

I consider it money very well spent. "Cheap" optics are never a bargain.

Thanks. May I ask what reticle you prefer?

According to Leupold's website, the 1.5-5 illuminated appears to be available in German 4 Dot, Duplex and Circle Dot.

I have a VX-R 1.25-4 with the fancy "Pig Plex" reticle on my AR-10 carbine. You get an illuminated dot with it. So far, no gripes. At distance it works well enough that the last three shots went into one hole, at 100 yards.

I may eventually move that one to another rifle, and get a VX-R 3-9 Patrol for the AR10. The rifle can certainly reach way out there.

Did you prefer a scope or an eotech/aimpoimt type? I'm presently looking at switching to a low power set up like you mentioned but I'm not quite sure. I have an eotech on there now, had an aimpoint before. Just not sure what I want. I dont hunt with this AR, its more of a range/defensive setup. Thanks

natchez used to have the Weaver V3 for $144. The price is up to $164, now. For about $45 more, you can get this at Midsouth:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00024114933

That's the Leupold VX-Hog. Think it's essentially a VX1 scope in 1-4x20. Looked through a buddy's the other day, and I was impressed. You may or may not like the reticle. The VX-R Hog looks nice, but is twice the price.

THIS IS NOT MINE AND I HAVE NO AFFILIATION! FYI as a reference only.
In the classifieds here on 24Hr.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...S_Leupold_VX3_1_5_5x20_Illum#Post7389177

I never needed a lit reticle at night or low light situations. Where I wanted a lit reticle was for daylight to use sort of as a red dot like Trijicon does but Leupold's don't shine bright enough for day use.

For the money, I'm still looking hard at a vx6 1-6, that scope was impressive to me. Standard vx3's in 1.5-5 served me well and for the price are hard to beat.

The standard VX3 1.5-5x20 is a one-inch scope. The illuminated 1.5-5 is listed on Leupold's website with a 20mm objective, but it has a 30mm tube.

Is it possible that the 1" and 30mm scopes both have a 20mm objective? In my way of thinking, it would be difficult to see how the 30mm scope could have a 20mm objective lens.

If the 30mm objective is, in fact, larger than 20mm (maybe 24mm or 25mm), would it be appreciably better in low light regardless of the illuminated reticle?

Both are 20mm but I've never had trouble with light gathering on the 1" version.

The vx6 1-6 is a 30mm tube but uses a 24mm objective. It's a nice scope but at $800, that's twice the price of a standard 1.5-5 it would depend on how bad you want a true(er) 1x and take on the bigger heavier scope. (I'm trying to talk myself out of it btw)

But dang the glass is better than my mk4's or Zeiss conquest...

I know the illuminated version with the 30mm tube is listed as a 1.5-5x20mm, but I don't see how they can use the same 20mm objective lens in the 1" scope and 30mm scope. If they did, the tube in the 30mm scope would need to be about 10mm thick (i.e. 50% of the diameter of the lens). I figure that is why many/most other 30mm scopes have a 24mm objective lens.

I very well could be wrong, but I have a suspicion that the 30mm scope has a larger objective lens than 20mm....

Not the one I compared.

You might also want to check out the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1. If you want an illuminated reticle, there is that option. It's new for 2013.

While not the E1, I have a 2-7x Fullfield II with the "German #4" reticle on my DD V7 and am very happy with it. This is my hunting AR and the optics are bright and clear, the power range is right, adjustments spot on, eye relief good and it is relatively compact and light so seems to look "right" on the rifle. I bought it when Natchez' had them on sale for $99 a year or so ago and wish I would have bought a few.

I have the Burris TAC 1-4... 1 power is true 1 power.

Great scope for the money and you can get it in FDE too.

I am running the Duplex. I used the vertical hair for holdovers. I did want to try the Circle Dot one for a T&E though, just never did.

Yes, I very much do prefer the low powered variables over a non magnified RDO. I was issued an RDO (EOTECH). It offered no target discrimination. A low powered variable is a substantially more flexible optic and can handle a far wider range of situations better.

I kept mine on 1.5x and shot with both eyes open, just like I would with an RDO, for close range unanticipated contacts.

When I needed to look more closely at something or someone, I simply dialed it up. If I needed to take a more precise shot, I simply dialed up. Target discrimination is critical and is something that I could write pages on, but is hard to explain in a short amount of time/space.

If I dial up and get on target, rather than finding a target with binos, then go back to a rifle with an RDO, reacquire a target, which may or may not be there still, and attempt to engage I may have just lost my window of opportunity. These things are fluid and rapidly change.

Long story short, the low power variable has a huge advantage in both sporting and tactical applications.

MS

One decent value for a great bit of glass, is the Weaver Classic Extreme line. Natchez Shooters has the 1.5x4.5, 30mm scopes, with illuminated German #4 reticle, for $269.
This is a very good scope, with excellent glass. I have been using one for almost three years now, with no complaints.

Mannlicher,

Thanks for that suggestion. It looks like Natchez now has only the illuminated duplex in stock. The German # 4 appears to be sold out. Regardless, I think the duplex would be fine for my needs.

I did some Internet searching, and this scope receives favorable reviews. From what I've found, it looks like it is made in Japan by Light Optical Works. Before being discontinued, it looks like it was sold as a $500-$600 scope.

I saw one review which said that the scope was sold when Meade owned Weaver and then it was discontinued when Weaver was taken over by ATK, who had other ideas in mind.

I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on this scope right now, but I'm still up in the air about saving up for a Leupold or Burris, but at about 2x the cost. I could get the Weaver and a Larue Mount for about the same price as just the other scopes alone.

Anyone else have any input on the Weaver Classic Extreme scope?

Thanks.

Edited to add:

The information in my original post may be incorrect. I found some more recent info which indicates that ATK (new owner of Weaver) continued to make the Classic Extreme as a Natchez exclusive, but the newer ones are now made in the Phillipines. One Internet poster said that he questioned ATK/Weaver, and they admitted this in an email to him and stated that the new Classic Extreme scope is not as high quality as the older Japanese made scopes were.

This makes sense to me because some of the other reviews I read were from people who were buying the discontinued models back in 2009. I was wondering how Natchez would still have a continuing supply of these given that they would have been essentially selling them at half-price for three or four years without running out of stock.

Of course, it's the Internet. Who knows what info is accurate....

Here is a link to the Internet post:

Varminthunters

One of the managers at Natchez told me on the phone, that the new Weaver Classic Extremes are indeed made in the PI. The quality though, is said to be as good as the Japanese scopes. They are fully warranted, and they guarantee your satisfaction.

Anyone use the Nikon P-223 riflescope in 3-9? Looks like a good deal at $200 at Cabelas. I just bought an AR and I'm overwhelmed with all the add on options. Thanks.

GSP, I have been using the P-223 3-9 BDC 600 for a few months now. So far it was worked very well for me. I have only shot at paper target's from 50 to 100 yards with no changes in accuracy or need to make any additional scope adjustment's after initial 100 yard zero. Make sure you check out Nikon's Spot On Ballistic Program to dial in your scope,rifle and ammo for maximum accuracy. For 2013 Nikon now has a P-223 in 4-12 BDC 600 to add to the P-Series line of scopes.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/p-2233-9.jpg