I'm still looking into a Vulcan Arms/Arments AR-15. They are the only legal AR-15's we Kaliforians cam buy.
They appear to make lots of guns of various types, not just several models of the AR-15.
I'll need to improve the trigger if I get one. So who makes the best trigger setups for these things. I want something that gives me a clean, no creep break at about 3 lbs. of less. E

Just what the doctor orderd

http://www.chipmccormickcorp.com/merchan...gory_Code=ART15

lewis

Jewel.

But you can just order a low power spring kit from Brownells and get it down to a decent weight.

I put a JP trigger in my AR and love it. It's at 3lbs but feels less because of the nice clean break. It ia a single stage trigger also. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jewell makes a two stage trigger for the AR too. Jewell triggers are quite well thought of but I have no idea which aftermarket is considered the one to have.

JP or Rock River.

TheJP trigger involves some fussing, but comes out reliable for a target trigger andwith a first class feel.

For a drop in, with field reliability, the RRA can't be beat.

The Jewel trigger is a wonderfull trigger for dedicated range use, but would not trust it with my life.

The new McComick trigger is a drop in "Cartridge" trigger that saves all fussing.

Just bear in mind that the lower dimensions, and the pin hole dimensions, will affect the entire aspect of trigger reliability, and overall triger quality.

I am a reliability snob that is aflicted with a trigger "Quirk".

I really like the RRA 2 stage unit, thanks to it appealing to both of the voices in my walnut sized brain.

I will admit however that my Varmint AR has a JP unit, and my personal utility M4 runs a U.S.G.I. trigger with G.I. springs.

The RRA match trigger is my favorite comprimise, and I have a couple of carbines set up with them installed and don't worry about grabbing any one of them in a blind but desperate moment of need.

Mind reducing the spring rate on a G.I. trigger unit.

The hammers velocity and reliabilty of ignition is at risk.
There is no free lunch.

Now that I have confused things even further....

Best of luck!
E4E

Can't comment on JP. I'm totally used to 2 stage triggers only. I hear good things. Same as Accuracy Speaks setups. FWIW I've not felt a single stage AR that didn't have creep to it yet that would not double, but I haven't tried any since about 92.

Jewels in the AR as 2 stage are the biggest waste of money you could ever spend. That doesn't knock them as bolt gun triggers but you are wasting cash in the AR.

RRA. Not bad at all. Better yet buy from or send to White Oak Armament/White Oak Precision for a tuned version and you'll be extremely impressed. Have a couple with about 15K rounds each that have never been re adjusted. More than I can say for my Milazzo(but thats a great trigger aside from loosing tension)

Best new 2 stage that has less lock time and is totally re-engineered that I'm aware of is the Geissele. Its absolutely great. And WOP/WOA are now suggesting these over the RRA tuned jobs. IE John looses money from tuning jobs but still suggests the best.

Mc Cormick-- I again have to defer. Have not seen or tried them. Have heard mixed reviews. If one would hear that it compares to the Jewel then I wouldn't waste my time or cash.

My pennies worth.
Jeff

Thanks guys. E

I have a Rock River 2 stage that I really have grown to like. If it can be made even better I may get it worked over as well.

Rost,

Have shot a Rifle with one of the WO tuned RRA units.

Nice!

Almost no movement before break, and the break was clean without stacking.
And it's got plenty of hammer/sear contact surface.;)

The doubling you mention with the single stage triggers, I have yet to see with the RRA trigger.

Keep safe!
E4E

What I was infering on single stage is that in the early 90s there were only folks like Albert Turner etc... that would work and "tune" single stage factory triggers. They all had creep remaining and if you got that out then the gun would double if you were not extremely careful.

That was not the solution and at the time the way to go was a 2 stage replacement from Milazzo. Very nice comparatively.

So I've no experience with a RRA single stage trigger at all. And it will happen with the 2 stage of any brand(have an old armalite right now thats having a bit of trouble on my 50 beowulf-- thats almost a rude awakening to double tap that gun) if the adjustment gets out of whack or wears....

Still looking for competitive highpower shooters input on the MC trigger. Only one response so far and it was decent. They are not legal for CMP shooting due to the external clips and hence the lack of use in the highpower world.

Wondering how stable that external clip is. IE walk through the brush and will it pop off??

Jeff

I recken........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


lewis

Rost,

When the hammer is released from the disco, a single stage trigger without enough contact surface to arrest the hammer/sear engagement wil result in a "Bounce".

Modified Mil./Std trigger/sears that have not been properly hardened after the mod, will do this as they wear.

If it happens after the second disco spring replacement, and assuming the pins,Disconnector or triggerspring are up to snuff, ya got a classic problem.....

Sexy+Sweet trigger vs. reliability.

I think more of us are stuck in this mire than is admitted.

I agree on the E-clips.

Would rather learn the the ugly trigger, than suffer the insult when the things decide to bail.

Give the RRA unit a run.
It ain't G.I. reliable and overbuilt, but it's a compromise with attention paid to reliability!

Just my thoughts and observations mind you.
And bear in mind I'm on the muddy side of the game first....
Somebody's gotta be! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep safe!
E4E

The Jewel is an excellent target trigger especially for Service Rifle High Power since you can adjust the different stages separately. It would also be a fine trigger on a varmint rifle.
The Knight-Milliazo 2 stage trigger is probably the crispest available. If I remember correctly it's what Tubbs used on his AR-10 won the national championship with. It's expensive and hard to find though.
Of the other currently available ones I've tried the Rock River Arms seems to be the best bet. It's not too expensive, by all reports very reliable, it's available and would probably be the one I would try if were I you............DJ

DJ, good luck on finding a Milazzo. The new creme of the crop in service rifles is Geisselle!!! And forget Jewel. The trigger pull varies from one pull to another and there will be creep on this shot but not the next..... The very first to come out were decent, but none that I've tried in the last 4-5 years are worth the money spent. They CAN be adjusted to a lighter weight than the RRA can for match rifles BUT they still have their problems. Its embarrasing, IMHO, to have that bad Jewel out there but its a fact.

I should add that I'm pretty picky on triggers for service rifle as its hard to remain a top level shooter without the best.

no offense intended but I don't want anyone buying Jewel with regard to the name and what they know about bolt gun triggers. Its not the same with the AR.

Jeff

I have 2 Jewels, 1 in a Colt Service Rifle and the other in a Les Baer Ultramatch, both are more than good enough for me, and anyone who has tried either rifle of mine. I also have 3 Knight/Miliazzo?s (however you spell it), they come in the Knight SR-15's.
You may be right that the Gisellle or whatever might be better than either I have no experience with it - or maybe you are a better shot with a more sensitive trigger finger. But I think that the average High-Power competitor or varmiter will find a Jewel more than adequate. But again for the 1/2 the cost I'd probably go with the RRA for general use if replacing a factory trigger........DJ

Thats just it with the Jewel in the AR. Its not worth the bucks when you can almost get 2 RRAs for that price and they'll be better than the jewel. I've spent lots of money over the years. Some of it wasted and others spent well. Just trying to help here.

On the milazzo-- would that not be either a Knight/SToner trigger or the Milazzo/Krieger trigger. I don't believe there is a knight/milazzo unless something happened I'm not aware of in the last year or so.

FWIW the Stoners have been really good AR service rifle triggers.

And you are right on me being picky. it takes a bit to get to HM both XC and LR with a service rifle and manage to have P100, Distinguished etc..... under your belt. I'm a bit picky as a result. I'm also a tightwad. I'll spend what I have to but I won't spend more and get less.

Hey-- do you know any of the OK service rifle shooting bunch? I"ve been out of shooting a bit now but I saw some OK names in the CMP Perry results recently....

Jeff

Rost, I could be mistaken on the exact designation on the trigger of my SR-15's, I was told it was the Miliazzo design, but I do like it.
How did my OK buddies do? I travel a lot in business and so haven't been able to compete in high power for a while. I traded for a Les Baer Supermatch bought a new coat and haven't got to use either in a match yet.
Some of the guys in our High-Power division are some of the best guys around, as are some I've met from Texas. I wish that I could shoot with them more often.
And having shot a little HP I know that being HM rated in Highpower and a Distinguished Rifleman is a superb accomplishment! You definately are a better shooter than I am but I'll work on it........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />........DJ