John Burns recently sent me one of his Wyoming Arms Fenix lights for T&E and I thought some here might be interested in my review / comparison.

For the evaluation of the light itself I compared it to three other commonly used weapon lights-the Surefire X300U, Surefire Scout M600U and the Streamlight TLR1. The TLR1 isn't known for high lumens, but I thought it was good for comparison purposes to show how much of a difference these high lumen lights make.

The TLR1 and Surefire X300U are nearly identical in size and weight. The X300U is slightly longer and the TLR1 is slightly larger at the lens.
The TLR1 is advertised at 300 lumens while the X300U is advertised at 500 lumens.


The Surefire Scout M600U (500 lumens) and Fenix PD35 (850 lumens) are also nearly identical in size and weight. The M600U used in this test is equipped with a Haley Strategic mount.


Method Of Testing
All of the lights in this test use CR123 batteries. I put fresh batteries of the same make in each of the lights prior to testing.

I adjusted my camera's settings for each set of pictures so that the photo resembled what I was actually seeing during the test.

Rather than post 20-something pictures in this thread I put them together in a video. Since it would be cumbersome to add notes about the test to the video, there are a few things worth noting here.
-I used three subjects for most of the tests. The middle subject held a white sheet of paper and the two subjects on the edges held blue and green paper. It was interesting to see which lights threw enough light on the subjects to be able to discern the color differences in the blue and green paper.
-For the outdoor pictures there was faint ambient light, but not enough to see the subjects clearly (if at all).
-The indoor pictures were taken in total darkness, although I did take one photo with the overhead lights on so that you could see what the room should look like with illumination.

The large room was approximately 24'x30'. I stood approximately 40' from the middle subject. The subject to the right (blue paper) was 8' from center and the subject to the left (green paper) was 16' from center, both were at 90* from the center. In a large room like this, all of the lights left portions of the room unilluminated, but the lights with tightly focused beams left large parts of the room dark.

The small room was approximately 12' square. The focused beam of the two Surefire lights was incredibly bright in this room and caused a lot of light to be reflected back at the light / shooter.

The first outdoor test was at 25 yards. All three subjects were in line with each other. The subject to the right (blue paper) was 15 yards from center and the subject on the left (green paper) was 7 yards from center.
-This test was very surprising. Even at 25 yards, the two offset subjects almost couldn't be seen with three of the lights. The subject to the right was actually farther from the center, but because of his clothing and the background he was more visible that the left subject.

The second outdoor test was at 50 yards. Only two subjects were used for this test. At 50 yards the usefulness of the higher lumen lights really started to become evident. The TLR1 illuminated the subjects, but the green and blue colors aren't easily discernible.

The last outdoor test was at 100 yards. Again, only two subjects were used. At 100 yards, the TLR1 barely illuminated the subjects at all. Until this test, the two Surefire lights were nearly identical in performance. But at 100 yards the more focused beam of the M600U was very useful.

At the end of the video I included two battery life tests for the Fenix PD35 and the M600U. Both lights were left running for thirty minutes and then brought back outside for comparison. During the battery life testing the Fenix light seemed much brighter.



My final impressions.....
I'm currently using the TLR1 on a patrol rifle and have been shopping for a brighter light for a while now. I'm likely going to switch to the Fenix light. For general purpose / patrol work I like the throw of the Fenix beam much better than the Surefire options. In the large room test the Fenix light illuminated much more of the room. 25-50 yards the Fenix light illuminated the target as well as the more focused beams but also cast a wider beam on the surrounding area, an important consideration for patrol work. For someone using their rifle for hunting I could definitely see the same benefit. At 100 yards the Fenix light gave up some illumination to the M600U with fresh batteries, but after 30 minutes of use the Fenix light was better up close and at distance. If all or most of your light needs were for 100 yards and beyond I could see a case being made that the M600U being a more suitable light. But for me, the benefits of the Fenix inside of 100 yards and the battery life the Fenix has made it a worthwhile trade off for me. In my opinion the Fenix light is only inferior to the M600U at beyond 100 yards (and even the advantage the Surefire has isn't much) when both lights have fresh batteries. After some use the Fenix's illumination is clearly better in all situations in my opinion.

If you're not wanting or needing 850 lumens, the Fenix is adjustable for 10-45-170-450 lumens. 450 lumens is still 50% brighter than the TLR1 I'm currently using and Fenix claims a battery life of two and a half hours at that setting.

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I thought a second post would be useful to talk about the Wyoming Arms mount for the Fenix light.

The mount that Wyoming Arms is building actually replaces the body of the Fenix PD35. As such, there are only two screws involved in the mount and it'd be impossible for the light to shoot loose from the mount. The mount is very low profile as seen in the pictures below.


I currently have my TLR1 mounted at 12 o'clock in front of a fixed front sight. This allows easy access to the momentary / constant on rocker switch, but the light's bell is so large that it protrudes into the bottom of the sight picture with iron sights.


The Wyoming Arms Fenix light can be mounted at 12 o'clock and I found that the push button switch of the Fenix could be activated if my front sight was pushed back to the approximate location of a carbine gas block. The light mount was low profile enough to keep the light out of the sight picture, but I don't think this is the most ideal solution.


It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Troy Alpha rails. The Alpha rails come with small picatinny rail sections that mount in the holes of the rail. There are holes at 11 and 1 o'clock on the rail that generally aren't useable because the picatinny pieces are so close to the top rail that most clamps won't fit. But I was very excited to find that the Wyoming Arms mount is small enough to fit (with a little finagling) at 11 o'clock without having to purchase any additional offset mounts. I really prefer my lights at 11 or 12 o'clock. With this low profile mount at 11 o'clock I really can't see it getting hung up on barricades, slings, or climbing in and out of a patrol car.


My only concern with the light was the little grey clicky switch near the lens. That grey switch is what adjusts the brightness of the light and I can see it easily getting bumped while in use or storage, especially in the trunk or rack of a patrol car. I talked to John about this and he explained that he's now making small inserts to place between the light's body and lens. The spacer is just thick enough to keep the grey switch turned toward the barrel of the gun so that it won't get accidentally bumped.

As far as long term reliability is concerned, John tells me he has over 8,000 rounds on his current Fenix PD35. I'm going to mount the Wyoming Arms light on my competition rifle and shoot the STI-Texas Multigun Championship with it this week. The match will only be 250ish rounds. But it'll be two days and 12 stages of the rifle getting thrown into dump barrels and slammed into ports and will see more rough use in those two days than most hunting or patrol rifles see in a year. I don't expect any problems, but I'll report back if there are any.

Overall, I'm very impressed with the entire set up. Rather than send the light and mount back, I intend to buy it from John and keep it on my patrol rifle.

Model number?

Type of batteries?

Retail price?

Thanks

All of the lights tested use the CR123 batteries. The Fenix is the PD35.

The Fenix and integral mount are $150 from Wyoming Arms.
http://wyomingarms.com/parts-accessories/

Thank you for your review. The price is right and I need another light!

Excellent work Blue and many thanks for posting that. Looks like Burns has another winner.

I own 3 Fenix lights, don't recall the model numbers off hand. All have been excellent on brightness and battery life, running at least twice as long as the same lumens in other brands.

Two reside in the truck and car as emergency lights, the one in the truck has been somewhat abused by dropping, rolling around under the seat, and general tumble.

I have a pocket clip model that runs on one AA battery as long(er) as my Surefire Executive does on two C123s. It's replaced every other flashlight in my hunting pack, and I can carry one set of batteries for the GPS and the flashlight. Fenix makes a great light IMHO, and I'm not surprised to see these results.

Another good review, Blue.

Blue would the VTAC mount work with this light?

TWR, the Fenix site lists everything in metrics but if google conversions are correct it's a 1" tube (25.4mm). So I'm nearly certain it would fit.

That looks like a 6P....? If so, the difference will be unbelievable.

I'll check it out cause I hate adding those rail sections to put the light in the same spot.
Ya this is just an 85 lumen light, good for in the house but not much else.

I just sent one of my nephews off to Afghanistan with a new Fenix flashlight. Compact, uses CR123 batteries, very bright.
I am only running a white light on one AR, my Spikes Tactical. The light is a Surefire X300. It does everything I need it to do, so I probably won't be buying another light.

Sam, does your X300 click easily for momentary on-off? I've seen some that the rocker was very stiff and couldn't be toggled as easily as the TLR lights.

Just curious.

Just push the rocker switch forward for momentary on. Depress either side for constant on.

Blue, I have found the rocker on the TLR to dang easy to toggle. Barely bump it and it makes contact. I really which it took a little more effort.

Never mind, I think I need one just to see...

Pard you need a good set of screwdrivers that for the screws you are screwing!

I've got a good screwdriver.....on my leatherman.....

The fenix will work with the Vtac fine, I run mine at the 1 oclock and wrap over with my thumb to activate.

I am split between the fenix lights and streamlights but I use a pair of TK11 for almost everything in patrol and have been impressed with their durability.

I just mount the same light in a weaver ring, I have those laying around in my parts bin, ie free. granted its not as clean a look. I prefer midwest gen2 SS over troy, slightly cheaper too, both are great though

To be fair you really should have used the TLR-1HL with 630 lumens instead of the standard with 300 lumens. It appears that the Fenix has a larger angle of lumination like the HL model has. Sometimes you can have to bright bright of a light also, you can get so much flash back in a room that it partially blinds the user.

If distance is what you're after on a rifle you could also look at the lower lumens, higher candela lights on the market. And if you really want brightness take a look at the StreamLight Pro Tac 3HL with 1100 lumens that will fit any 1" mount.

Can you get remote presure switches for the Fenix?

What is the difference in lumens and candela?

In layman's terms lumens are the total output of light whereas candela is the "reach" of the light. They are not dependent on each other and most high candela lights are actually lower lumens. A high candela light will generally throw off a narrow but far reaching beam whereas a high lumen light will generally throw a very side beam of light.

all you have to do, is press your finger on either side of the toggle, and it gives you instant on. For continuous light, you have to flip the toggle.

Thank you reelman, that explains a lot.

Thanks guys. This was the first time I spent more than a minute or two with one. Off the gun it wasn't as intuitive as it seems now.

I would've included an HL TLR, but don't know anyone who has one. I've messed with one of the HL Stinger handheld lights and it was really impressive.

The TLR I posted pics with wasn't included to compare it to the other lights, just to show a reference of how much brighter the other lights were. I had my doubts at first about whether or not they'd be worth the money, but I'm convinced now that they are.

I agree on having too bright of a light. The M600U was so bright in the small room (it's beam was so focused) that it was hard to look at it. The Fenix has more lumens, but spread the light out more and wasn't bad at all.

For my uses, 100 yards is plenty far. And if I can have a light that illuminates rooms better AND gets me to 100 yards, that's the one I'll choose.

Do you have one of the 3HL lights? I'd be curious how much larger the lens is that other lights. The fact that the Fenix and TLR were so low profile was a big deal to me.

Fenix makes one. http://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-ar102/

I couldn't tell if it was allowed you to click for constant on, but it didn't look like it. For me, the ability to get constant on or not is a deal breaker.

Thanks for the review. Will have to wait till I'm on my home computer to watch the video. It'll be interesting to see how the Fenix holds up. I've read a ton about the chinese LED lights (Fenix, foursevens, etc) and it seems like they're brighter and more efficient than Surefire/Streamlight but maybe not as durable. The fact that you're willing to put one on your patrol rifle tells me I've been overthinking that.

Besides the mount, are there any other differences between the Wyoming Arms version and a stock Fenix? Wordering if its just easier to buy a VTAC or other offset 1" mount if you want to be at 11:00 vs 12:00.

Yes I have a PT3HL and the head is bigger than the body but it's not nearly as large as the Streamlight HP models. The standard PTHL has a smaller head and still has 600 lumens.

blue, that Wyoming mount is pretty cool. Do you know if they make them for other models and other brands? I like the way it replaces the flashlights body.

This has been an informative thread for me. First I might be scared of the dark.

Second, I found a Fenix dealer today and got to look at their lights. They were out of the PD35 but I will pick one up once they get one in. I did notice that the 680 lumen light was listed at 18225 CD which explains a lot to me after reelman's answer to candela vs lumen.

Fenix does offer pressure switches, batteries, chargers and a mount. The dealer said he's been selling them about 2 years and his Surefire sales have ceased and his Streamlight sales are hurting.

Thanks Blue, I needed another light...

Pffftttt.....Like you've never cost me money before! You're the enabler here.

I finished shooting with it today and tried to beat it up but it's still rocking along as of a few minutes ago when I unloaded the truck.

I believe the mount is the only difference, but I'd have to refer you to John for any specifics. I think the WA mount is a better way of going about it, for my rail for sure anyway.

I'm now not completely convinced that the 1" mounts will work. In the pic that CumminsCowboy posted it looks like the 1" part of the light is on the head and not the body. I'd not be comfortable with having the light attached at the head only. Maybe he'll see this and chime in on whether or not the ring would fit the body too. If a 1" mount only fits the head of the light, I'd definitely go with the WA mount.

Only the PD35 that I'm aware of.

Locking the light directly to the rail sure seems like a good way to do it, rather than having the light clamped in a ring (Surefire does sort of the same thing with the Scout lights but the mount screws directly to the body of the light rather than being truly integral). It may all be overkill, but it's not like we don't overkill everything else when it comes to gear.

the light I am using is a PD 32 ultimate. the middle of the flashlight body is smaller so no the ring will not work in the middle. however with a couple wraps of electrical tape to add a small mount of extra diameter you could put in on the tail cap. however I see nothing wrong with the bezel, I pushed the ring all the way back and its almost behind the glass edge.

Bluedreaux

Thanks for putting up that video. That took a bit of effort.

The light is a standard Fenix PD35. The bezel is tapered and has 3 cooling fins so I doubt a guy can securely clamp on the bezel. The older PD32 had a straight bezel.



Right now we are only doing the PD35. It is such a great light I don't know what would be gained unless we do something with a much tighter beam for nighttime predators at distance. With a magnified optic this little light is easily capable target ID at 150yds.

is it still button activated or can you get one with a switch? The switch has always been easier for me to use.

Button activated. Press for momentary and click for constant on.

I put the light on my competition rifle and shot the STI-Texas Multigun Championship with it. This is the best I could do for a torture test. I put the light on the right side of the rail so every time I shot through a port the light was getting pushed into a barricade and riding the recoil against it. It got thrown around into plastic dump barrels full of sandbags and took it like a champ. It's a little scuffed and scratched, but is working like it was new.

How much is the mount by itself? Or can you by it by itself?

Thanks for the evaluation. I know this will sound arrogant but IMO you're still behind the curve. I use flashlights a lot. They may not get quite the workout a cop gives them, but I still put them through their paces. Getting your lumens up to the level of the Fenix is where that part needs to be. Use of those batteries is still a weakness though because generally speaking, they are ancient technology. I've got a total of one "torch" that uses them which doesn't eat them right up. It's a stubby flashlight that only uses one. 18650 rechargeables are the standard now. I like a light that uses three AAA batteries because they are just so easy to find and cheap, but I have not found one yet that will approach the illumination of 18650's. I recently bought a new flashlight that appears to be of Surefire quality with this setup for $8! I already had batteries and charger for it. A package deal with light, batteries and charger was $15. lol A year or two ago I got attacked by a bunch of people when I said Surefire and Streamlight are moribund. Frankly, if they hadn't moved a lot of their production out of the country and fallen so far behind in technology in conjunction with pricing their products out of sight, I'd still be a fan. Sadly those three things are facts though. I don't think I currently even have a Surefire out to use. I've got them stacked in my safes for use when I can't see something back in the corner or the like. Surefire is like Maglight, wonderful technology that has been surpassed. FWIW I've never cared for Streamlight. Just too many problems. I've got one Streamlight laying out in the garage that I just haven't made the effort to move to a safe. That's the only one that's still out.

When I was using torches with CR123A batteries, I went through them like water through a sieve. Since pretty much switching to the 18650's I haven't bought hardly any save for a two-pack when I got the stubby light I spoke of. I just wanted fresh batteries for it. Gone is the need to journey 100 miles to Cabela's in order to get a box or two of Surefire batteries for who-know-how-much now. They were at least $25 for a box the last time I bought them and are probably $30 or more now. Maybe cheaper online, but I don't use them anyway. The two pack at Walmart was ten bucks. The 18650's run-time seems SIGNIFICANTLY increased and I've yet to wear one of the batteries out. They were cheap initially too.

I very much like the looks of the mount.

EE, the PD35 is compatible with 18650s. I intend to check into them, but hasn't ever known anyone with first hand experience with them. I'll have to check into that.

I have several LED lights that work with either 3 AAA batteries in a holder/adapter, or a single 18650 battery.

I bought four 18650 rechargeable batteries (and a recharger) and I have been very happy. They last a long time, and charge quickly.

I have not gone back to the triple AAA batteries, but it is nice to know that he option is there if I am on the road and do not have my 18650 charger with me.

John

I agree completely with what jpb says in his post. If you can get a light that goes interchangeable with the AAA's and 18650's that's currently the way to go. The AAA's are just so easy to find but the 18650's I've used have been about the best rechargeables I've ever experienced in a light.

The technology is moving so fast right now it's unbelievable. It's just crazed to get a light like I did for $8. How reliable it is for how long is yet to be revealed.

Thanks for the +1 Ethan.

I stopped looking at anything other than the 3AAA-18650 combo flashlights after my first one!

I should have added that I have seen 18650 batteries with individual capacities of 1800, 2200, 2400, 2600 mAh.

I got the 2600 mAh -- boy, do these suckers last!

Now, I see 3600 mAh versions are on the market.

John

Yes I have a green pig hunting light that uses those 18650 rechargeable batteries. I like them better than the CR123 batteries.

It is nice to have the option of either the 18650s or CR123s. Pretty hard to find a charged up 18650 at the local store in pinch and conversely the 18650s can sure save a bundle in a heavy use light.

I buy CR123's in bulk and have maybe 9-10 dozen on hand right now. Of course now all of my lights have been upgraded so the shortest battery life I have now is 2 hours, way better than the 30 minutes I used to get with the old Surefires.

However, the rechargeable 18650's are on my list as well as a solar charger.