Honestly I don't get it, unless you buy a suppressor and shoot subsonic ammunition it's just not any better than a 5.56 round as a hunting or SD cartridge. The folks in gun stores these days seem to still be in a swoon over the cartridge, especially guys under 35 or so. They piss all over the 5.56, and one today told me that the 5.56 was an answer to a question that was never asked and was a great "wounding" cartridge. His saving grace is he is well known as an opinionated ass but at the same time how can you not have enough brain cells to reconnoiter some elementary ballistics. Of course because he is so positive in his belief I am convinced the 5.56 won't kill stuff even though I have seen it with my own eyes. Wait till one of them puts a mag with 300's into their 5.56 and blows it up.

<shrug> I'm a ways north of 35, and I've owned two.

A suppressor is on my to-do list for hogs and pests. And supersonic loads aren't much off the .30-30 in power. Uses the same magazines as the 5.56, so logistically it makes sense. If you decide to shoot both sub and super, you'll probably want different optics in a QD mount, as they don't even begin to shoot to the point of aim.

My Daniel is flawlessly reliable, as was the CMMG before it, but the DD is a good deal more accurate.

I like the round, even though it's not a .308

.224 isn't legal for hunting in all states.

It oughta make a badazz woods deer rifle. But I agree the 5.56 is sufficient with the right bullets. I'd love to shoot some pigs with 125gr BT's and compare the two.

About on par with the 30-30?
300 shoots a 125 gr bullet 2215 fps
30-30 shoots a 170 gr bullet 2227 fps

Both can be loaded hotter but 45 more grains of lead at the same velocity is a little above par.

It's a sub sonic round that has been hyped to the limit. Got to love marketing.

Compare a 125gr BT to a flat nosed whatever at 200yd. Energies will be a LOT closer.

What about a 125 gr NBT in a 14" Contender pistol?
Velocity still runs 2349 fps.

But most will never even try 200 yards but they will sing the song "it could".

They passed suppressor hunting in GA, but I cannot see hunting with the 220 grain bullet.

i got one because... well... i just wanted it. if the time comes when i don't want it anymore, it'll go to the back of the safe. if i don't think i'll ever shoot it again, i might sell it. i just wish it was a dpms

Some people like new and different.

Some states don't allow the .223 for hunting.

But the vast majority simply have no experience so they come up with stupid fugging theories.



Travis

I have hunted hogs with each 5.56 and 300BLK. I have to say I enjoy shooting both. In my experience I have to say the 300BLK does a better job at putting them down at 250 yards or less.

Well it has a super kewl name but is little more than a 30 carbine+P. Subsonic suppressed is its niche and that is good enough I reckon. However 300bo devotees cling to it tighter than a pit bull holding a child's leg.

Me either, thats why I"ll be using 240 or 194s...

Its sales. Pretty simple actually.

YOunger folks haven't been exposed/around as long as older ones that tend to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

I had a whisper many years ago, it was fun, and did exactly what it was good for, subsonic. But you could not hunt game with it here. So it went away.

Now that game is legal, its back in my gun closet X2. Both for suppressed as I see no other use for it.

IF I want better than 223 performance I"m not going the route of the 300/221. I"ll take a better choice, like x 39 or another wildcat on the 15 platform. After all I've already decided I need more than 223 can offer, I won't just stop at the first that offers more, I"ll bump it up to see what I can get.

But the media type hype has always sold. And probably always will.

Its just the latest/greatest thing otu there and because Jimmy has one that means I have to have one.

Just think about the masses that realize the drop at 200, the energy loss there and beyond, etc... might even be some good buys on them later on.. Grins.

I have 30 cal bullets and an AR, why not? Of course I am over 35 too.

Pimp your 300 BLK AR in classic mall ninja fashion - Tacticool.

You can pick any decade and say what is it about the guys under 35 that are so excited about the ... ultramags, short mags, etc, etc.

There is always a segment of the buying public that has to have the "latest and greatest" even if it's just a repackaged version of something that has been around for 10, 50 or 100 years.

The young shooting public has essentially rediscovered the 30-30. Not like that is really a bad thing.

I doubt if more than a few percentage of folks that get 300 BO's will go to the trouble or expense of getting a can, but hey if it trips their trigger no harm no foul.

Spouting ballistic ignorance at the gun store is also nothing new.

So non suppressed it's 70's at 2700 or 125's at 2200 not huge and the ammo is quite expensive in the practice ammo category. Otm blackout was $279 for 200, probably better than 500 Xm193 at $270.

Some folks just like having "stuff". I've got a buddy with probably six half finished projects who has to borrow a complete AR if he wants to shoot with us.

An unsuppressed BlackOut is just a toy. A really boring, schitty, toy.


Travis

i guess i'm easily entertained, but if it hurls an object at a target, i'm happy to shoot it... even more so if i hit the target!!! but admittedly, suppressed is more fun.

I almost bought one in a bolt gun, but I couldn't bring myself to do it and hoped I could get sub-sonic .308's to group good enough for sub-sonic work.

They do. Thank God.



Travis

Suppressed and subsonic, they're fun. Other than that...meh!

I owned one, enjoyed playing with it, but bullets are expensive, it has the trajectory of a rainbow with subs, and it's another cartridge I have to load for.

I sold mine and put together a short barreled, suppressed 5.56. It's a lot louder than the 300, but odds are I can hit a target at 50, 100, etc. without having to hold way over, dial, etc.

The 300 is fun, but in my opinion, that's about where the usefulness ends.

Which brings us to another point of uselessness...

Sub-sonic and suppressed is cool as schit. But the reality is, unless you're killing cats in your neighbor's backyard, there's really no need to be THAT fuggin' quiet.



Travis

you've hit on a point even more germane than uselessness... NEED. and regardless whether one needs a useless gun or not, if he want's it, isn't that reason enough?

i don't know if my buddy actually needed a tracking point rifle, but i can truthfully say it is absolutely the coolest thing ever; especially to someone with my limited knowledge and experience.

Sure. Buy whatever you want.

Slingshots are bad ass too.




Travis

that's my point

I understand. And the OP was asking why something so schitty is so popular. And I'm simply agreeing that when it comes to modern day rifles, the cartridges usefulness is pretty limited.



Travis

I have shot suppressed 308 and it thumps pretty good with heavy sub sonic rounds. The 300BO pushes the same bullet to the same speed and hits just as hard, suppressed it's a great tool and pretty fun as well.

It's those who push it for super sonic use that I don't understand but I don't care what someone else uses or buys, just don't try to tell me how "bad" it is.

The ability to shoot quietly while seeing in the dark while blasting pigs is reason enough to town one, why I'll bet even a dpms would work.

TWR,

What ranges are you typically shooting pigs at? And do you dial out to the 250 or so? Or further?



Travis

I like the idea of shooting suppressed subs at a herd of pigs, when they trot up. Or ambushing them at night and not making the ranch's neighbors freak out.

I also have the DD beside the bed, as the house gun, but after shooting a doe & a pig with subsonic 220's, I may switch it to 125gr supes. Or 240 SMK's if I can find them.

It is a reliable and accurate rifle, which I always find hard to dislike...

i forgot what i was talking about. i'll have to think about that one

Yep the subsonic suppressor is the reason for the 300 Bo. The 6.8 supersonic is gooder for stuff, all things considered the 5.56 is probably an equally good choice despite the blathering and fawning paid to the Bo.

The .223 covers a whooooooole lot of ground.

But the further east or south you go, the less people recognize it...




Travis

A little off topic, but what do some of you experienced AR guys think about the 6.8 spc vs the 6.5 Grendel? The ballistics of the 300BO do not interest me but these two have me thinking...

(Oh yeah I'm 35 and still prefer bolt guns... not sure where that puts me)

Typically 100-150 yards, of course I shot one directly beneath me with a 44 special and have seen my cousin kill the biggest one yet at 200 yards with a 50 gr NBT 223. While I do shoot steel out to 800 yards, I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting pigs with either a 223 or 300 BO past 300 yards. Well they are the scourge of the earth and I'd probably shoot at them if I could see em.

But at night in a stand over a feeder, a suppressed 240 gr hunk of lead would put a lot of bacon on the ground.

You lost me. Are you saying your 44 is suppressed? I was talking about the 30 cal sub-sonics.

I was curious how many MOA you're having to dial to get to 150 or 200 or so. My son and I were messing with them in the .308 today and they were doing pretty UBER.



Travis

I'm 60 and began shooting the 300 whisper 14 years ago. Still have my contender but I use my Noveske AR in 300 Blackout more. I'm a woods hunter in VA. We can't use 5.56 to deer hunt. I have shot 30? or more deer both subsonic and supersonic. So far, all one shot kills. Shooting with a suppressor is so nice.

Some pig shoots work out a LOT better quietly. More targets hang around longer.

Some areas I hunt deer in, are close to houses, some are close to other hunters unfortunately, and it just flat spooks the deer much less than the boom.

Shoot a boom or two out of my area, and odds are you won't see much for deer for a day or two. Suppress one and I'll likely see the normal deer that next hunt and they won't be spooky.

OF course there are otehr reasons to have em, IE just want em. But there are legit reasons for some uses.

More so than cats.

Ok.



Travis

Sorry Travis, we misunderstood each other. I don't have a 300 BO but have shot a 308 subsonic so I know what the BO is capable of.

I shoot my pigs with regular ol 223's and the 44 special I spoke of was a 629, no suppressor. At least for now.

A buddy of mine does the suppressed/NV thing but keeps it to more close range stuff. To be clear, I'm all for the 300 BO with a suppressor, I just don't see it as a giant killer running light bullets supersonic.

I resemble that remark, 'cept I do have a functional AR, or three.

Gotcha.

I ask because I am curious how the sub-sonics do on pigs and schit out around 100yds. I'm supposed to go pig killing next spring and was going to take my 308 with but I will more than likely use regular loads.

Here's my son yesterday. It's hard for me to imagine where I'm going to need a gun to be this quiet. Especially when I'm having to dial about 8 MOA between the fiddy and the 100.




Travis


Travis

I am just gonna get another useless 223, tired of fighting 308's and don't want to pay a dolla a shot fo practice.

I wish someone made a half way accurate half way working 7.62 x 39!

I can make those too...

I live in the east, in a state than bans .223 for deer, where people are everywhere. I have the Blackout so I can shoot a deer pilfering from my backyard garden, and the neighbors won't be disturbed during their nice autumn morning or evening. Like a crossbow, it's a narrow niche, but a useful one for my purposes.

Do you shoot it sub-sonic and suppressed?



Travis

Yep.

I would worry about them running Into my neighbors yard and dying.

Yeah, all you need is a buddy, or three.

Seeing, how you write "Uber" it should not surprise me, how you pronounce it.

But, dang, listen to yourself.

Its "�ber".

http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=%C3%BCber&searchLoc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on

Suppressed subs from an SBR that actually cycle the weapon is fun, you can't argue with that. Thats whay most (especially us youts under 35) have taken a liking to them. Unless you already have or plan on doing the work for a suppressor and SBR lower, 300BLK is pointless. I prefer 5.56 for mostly everything from an AR but a 6.5 Grendel project has always been on the back burner for me.

RRA
Introducing the Rock River Arms LAR-47
by G&A Online Editors | January 24th, 2012 5

Rock River Arms introduced its brand new LAR-47 rifle at SHOT Show 2012 in Las Vegas. The LAR-47 rifle is your standard AR platform, but good news for you AK fans: It also takes AK-47 magazines. Chambered in 7.62�39, the LAR-47 is fully adaptable with all AR upgrades and features a chrome-lined bore. Check out the video from SHOT Show




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbaM8bMsRJM

What bullet are you using and at what ranges? Do you usually brain or spine them?



Travis

Yup. Same worry exists with a bow...or even muzzleloader. I'm friendly with the only neighbor's place they've ever run onto. Most I've killed just dropped DRT.

Trying 230gr soft cast Lee for this year. The longest shot on my tiny home garden/food plot field is 55yds from the stand. Most are more like 30yds. I'm high enough and they're close enough that shots are at a high angle down, making most shots spine shots just because it's on the way to the lungs.

Oh come on, its not hard or super expensive to have a accurate and reliable .308 in the AR platform. You just have to know who to source your parts from. I will walk you through it if you want.

I can't yet comment on how it will work on animals, but trying the 194 lehigh bullet, max expansion I think its called.

At 100 in the same backstop as barnes are fired into full speed with many rounds, the lehigh looks just a barnes, 4 petals peeled back.

At what should be appx 1000 fps from a 300/221 round.

When I get to a pig, hopefully soon, I"ll give a report.

I have not shot the drops on it yet but you can run the BC and 1000 fps, off the lehigh site and figure how bad or not bad the drops are. IIRC it was along the lines of 4-6 high at 50 if on at 100.... Since I have a rangefinder and will run knobs on the gun, won't be that big a deal IF the need is there for suppression, either real or in my mind.

Will try to take pictures of pig results and so on. Will do same with deer this fall.

BTW one of my buds says the suppressors work great on yotes too, you can almost always get the 2nd no problem, and it will be looking at the first generally... not running like he77. Thats hard for me to believe though.

DNR does not allow a 5.56 for deer hunting here. I want to can my .50 cal. inline.

Funny the DNR in most states is quite ignorant about killin stuff.

It looks like from the website the RR is not released yet

rost,

I had not seen those and they look pretty UBER. That might be just the thing to try on pigs next year.

Calling dogs was my motivation for buying this can from the beginning. By all accounts they improve calling ratios based on the guys I've spoken with. I cannot wait until the season starts.






Travis

Cool. Good luck. I"ll update as I get time. Too busy trying to get ready for AK trip again.
Jeff

What are you killing in AK?



Travis

Yeah, I'd like to try one, but it was announced two years ago, and still don't have them on the market. Which suggests to me they have some major problem with it.

I wonder if its the same problems of tapered cartridge and bolt thrust, premature wear of parts etc.

Time. And a moose if lucky. LOL. DIY trips with friends that live there on public land.

See lots of moose, lots of bulls, but in 2 trips to this one area so far, nothing over 50.

But who cares, I"m in AK for 2 weeks. Beats the hell out of the danger heat warning we have today!

I just ordered all my parts to put together a blackout upper for my ar, figured subsonic 200+ grain bullets will be to much fun in a semi. I tested some 178 matchking subs in my bolt action 308 out to hundred yards shooting into jugs of water. Upon impact the bullet turns sideways traveling thru almost 36" of one gallon jugs. Makes a nice long tear going thru the jugs. I think of it as bow hunting if you aren't using the expanding bullets made by leigh or outlaw bullets. Just kill by flooding the lungs with fluid. Never got to try it out yet, but will next week after all my parts get in! Poor hogs! And yes it will be suppressed!

More folks should bowhunt for say 5-10 years. Would teach them a LOT. Shot placement in the real world vs relying on frags of bullets hopefully getting what your main bullet missed....
How to follow blood trails to dead animals, and even how to follow almost no blood trails and follow by tracks and sign only to dead animals.

Etc... it would be a good thing.