Well as graphic as they have to be... anyway 300/221, 7.9 Lil gun currently, around 1020 fps, LC case, Rem 7.5, 2.180 oal, 194 Lehigh max expansion. Rem 700 factory 16 inch threaded. 30P1? Ti can.

First one will be exit on a buck I shot at around 60 ish yards or so, just by a guess distance wise.

Followed by a doe, shot at 123 yards by laser rangefinder, and the damage plus the bullet. Entered behind liver, on purpose, trying a longer shot and penetration stuff... broke the shoulder socket where it joins the leg bone and cam to rest after shattering that in multiple pieces, resting int he shoulder meat. Not visible IE lump under skin on off side FWIW.







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Nice slice to the heart. I give you credit for good bullet placement. Beyond that, the damage looks pretty minimal.

Have shot 5 deer this year with it. Found performance with this bullet never lacking at all.

Have not seen one go more than about 80 yards. Mostly about 50-60.

Shots from about 30 yards to 123.

I would not hesitate to use it to 200 wiht the right zero and ribcage shot. Bullet designed to open down to 750 fps.

Lil Gun is supposedly the quietest powder. Supersonic just barely the gun groups great.

Subsonic is another thing. Not quite as big as 2 moa but still I"m not that thrilled and no clue why.

Then there is the sound thing. Sometimes its like a pellet gun going off, and sometimes there is a fairly loud whoosh... not supersonic. But not pellet gun quiet by any means.

Spoke to the Thunderbeast and they say either unburned powder igniting inside can or while the projectile stays sub, the gases around go super.

Will be trying to drop it down to 900 or 950 while searching to pray to find that good accuracy node again...

I do have about 50 rounds down the tube without cleaning and we never got time to UBC the bore. IT may be fouling and raising pressures and speed too from the last chrono.

According to data this MV should remain sub sonic down to -20. It seems noticeably quieter when its warmer out, BUT the first weekend it was 50s for highs and 2 shots there were super quiet....you never know.

Bullet is so heavy it retains the energy very well to 100, and even furhter.

Did not take pictures of other deer due to time. Will continue to try to take pics.

Sure want to give 208 amax and 240 SMKs a go into a deer, will try 240s first looking for tumbling, as the 208 amax should be totally stable I suspect. Will not get that far this year unless i can find some pigs.

thats prolly due to the lack of bruising from the comparative lack of hydrostatic shock....you dont see alot of damage from a broadhead due to this but they still kill effectively....

Not exactly sure what some would expect from a 1000 fps projectile.

Its designed to expand, does so to almost an inch I'm guessing. All deer have been VERY dead. With a variety of lung shots, including one that only got one lung that my buddy did.

They bleed out and die.

of course like in the long range forum, if its not your cup of tea thats no biggie.

But an expanding subsonic bullet that leaves an exit hole bigger than I ever expected, well that was amazing to us.

I would have shot them in the head....

Jeff, you ever try supersonic 125s?

How'd they work?

supersonic would be in a different caliber if I ever did. No use at all for supersonic rounds out of this dink round, and suppressed. supersonic defeats the purpose, IMHO.

I have shto 125bts out of x39 and they worked fine. Nothing spectacular but did just fine and acted like a normal bullet, not a bt bomb.

My buddy runs 110 or is it 115 Barnes supersonic in his 300/221. Reports lots of dead pigs.

Very informative, thanks!

That's a much better exit than I saw on a pig, shooting the Outlaw States. In that case the exits looked just like the entrances.

Shooting with a can, how much does it spook other animals in the area? A couple years ago I got surprised by a large group of pigs, feeding at 25 yards from the blind. I had a Ruger #1 and a Colt 1911. I tried the .45 and dropped one, but couldn't get a 2nd shot before they were all gone. I always wonder if the can would let you get multiple shots off before they finally spook.

Those bullets look like they'd be good for defensive use, too.

I was thinking it was you that sent me the other bullets.

Was hoping you'd see this!

As I noted there are issues on the can noise... usually very quiet.

I shot the first buck, the other buck and doe with him ran off, probably because he did. No one within 400-600 yards of me heard the shot at all.

Had about 20 other deer out 150 yards away, they did nothing.

Had the largest buck I've ever seen( long story there... still looking for him to come back by, I"ll shoot him this time...) on the place come by at 50 yards checking does, about 5 minutes later. This was the 60ish yard shot

Shot another doe a few weeks later. She was outside the feed pen, just barely, with a mature old buck in the pen about 10 yards behind her. He looked at her like she was nuts when she ran off. Went back to eating. 123 yard shot

Shot a 2nd doe, when I was about 50 yards from all the deer, they all ran off a bit, but stopped and came back to eat again.

My buddy shot at a doe ( we managed to get the CDS scope that doesn't have a zero stop, a full turn of elevation off). 97 yards. She never looked up. Bullet went over her.

Then he shot at one at about 35 yards, bullet of course went over her took. She walked off after looking towards the stand.

Then we got it back to zero... he shot a doe two weeks ago, 70 yards. Buck behind her at 97. He never looked up.

I can say this, everytime we've shot the gun in the brush its been quiet.

But when I shoot a direction that has a lot of open air, and then runs into a far off tree line, there is a lot louder "whoosh" than normal.

From all that, and discussions wiht thunderbeast I'll be dropping the round speed a bit more. Just to see. And they noted using a mag primer.

I'm still curious about filler to make 100% dense loads, but they didn't comment from thunderbeast and I don't really want to send that through a suppressor without an ok.
RE load density is the accuracy issues only, BUT it might also make the powder burn completely.

Hope that helps some.

I agree on defensive use, they open much more than a Barnes does, every bullet I"ve pulled from my backstop of dirt, has opened and looks very similar. To me they are wicked big exits, considering the round and speed they come from.

Lehigh ain't cheap, but they are cheap by far since they work.

Jeff

Thanks! I think the 240 SMK's will have a hard time matching those results, tumbling or not.

I don't know jack about using a can, but having used filler in a couple cartridges, I don't think I would want to use it in a can. Those bullets do seem pretty wicked and will be on the list to try.

Thats what I'm thinking, even if it was granular, it may still not burn....and foul the suppressor.

And really, when I look at 7-8 grains with the 194 at the depth they suggest, its really a pretty full case...

Need to call Lehigh and pick their brains some more after season is over.

will be time to tweak the trigger, bed the gun into the stock and get a good dial with zero on it finally.

I'd like to see the results of one of those out of 308 or 30-06. I'm guessing bambi wouldn't make it very far...

Thanks Jeff, I am going to give the subsonics a whirl based on this.

Speaking of zero...at the speed you are running that bullet, what are does the trajectory look like at 50, 150, and 200 if you zero at 100? Or if you have another combo available, i'm just interested in how quickly a 200gr starts dropping if sub-sonic.

Drop, no problem. I think I can still easily make it work to 200, but then I have a bit of knob turning experience to say the least...

Zero at 110, its +2 at 25, +4 at both 50 and 75, then I forget, I have it on the dial but think its 7 low at 125, I have the data somewhere for the complete thing. Ok, found it on my iphone. 100 its +2 high. 125 its -2 low, 150 its -11 low 175 its -17 low and 200 its -28 low. Thats all inches and rounded off from about 3-4 sight in runs physically shot at each distance.

Of course its impossible for it to be flat at 50 and 75, but the rise is pretty much the same at both distances, even though its a different correction on the knob.

If I could get it to group decently enough then we might have more firm data.

With a rangefinder and the knob 100 to 125 is no problem at all so far.

Depends on what you are after if thats good or bad. BC is .638..

BTW antoher post said 308/06... data on the box, and I have no clue what would happen, but designed from 750 fps to 1250 fps.

They have some kind of small cavity insert in them to help the hydraulic forces start working it looks like.

Final caveate, remember I"m a bowhunter from way back, I don't mind following trails. I am training or trying to train a blood dog now, since we inherited the mutt, and he is doing wonders but it drives me nuts running behind him to the deer, rather than following the puzzle.

I have see a couple of shots where there, even with the large exit wounds, was very little blood to follow in tall grass. Not that I could easily find. Dog had no problem following though.

On a couple though there have been good blood trails.

I can say this though, unless you are in a swamp thicket, the deer should be dead inside of 100 yards. And that can't be hard to find.

Just want folks to be really aware, its not going to be for everyone. Especially if you like ballistic tip outcomes.

Jeff do you notice any decrease in accuracy with the can?

Jimmy

Being that I"m dedicated somewhat to one bullet its hard to say.

I can say that I have no clue how accurate the factory gun is without the can. Why even try it that way. I know that doesn't answer the question.

I can say this, with the Lehigh, what was subsonic in the summer was under MOA a bit. But get colder and had to back off the load. Then it went down hill.

When I get more time to play with the 500 of 240 SMKs and 100 of 208 amax for cheaper plinking I"ll know a bit.

Jeff

Thank you I have heard some of the AAC suppressors that screw on the flash hider can result in loss of accuracy.

Mine screws directly to the barrel.

I would not have a QD or one that screwed onto a flash hider personally.

But from folks that have run suppressors for years, the thought is they never hurt accuracy and generally help it.

That being said don't have AAC etiher, my research and friends that had them made me go thunderbeast for this application.

Thanks for the info. Getting a can is moving up on my list of things to do. My 12yr old daughter shot for first time this weekend. She loved the .22 of course, but first shots with 20" AR in 7.62x39 with russian ammo were a little intimidating. But, she didn't hesitate when asked if she wanted another mag and she grouped them into an into at 25yds. Subsonic would be a lot easier on her or just the reduction of muzzle blast with a can on super ammo has benefits. Good stuff....

10.9 gr of 1680 shot well with 220 SMK's in my Daniel Defense. Think I will try about 10.4 gr with the 240's. The Lehighs seem to be sold out at their site.

All our local Wally Worlds had the M700 SPS Houge .300 BO 16-in. for around $600 a year or so back. Wish I'd got one.

They were on sale for Black friday and I didn't get the email fast enough.. I know this, I guess I'll buy 4 more boxes when they are in stock agian.

RE 1680, its a loud sub sonic powder vs lil gun from what I read, but have to have it for the AR to work, at least I know that when I put my rock barrel on an upper eventually.

10-4, I don't think my local store carries anything but AAC, but after your post I did some reading on Thunderbeast, looks better than AAC's offering.

I should add, driving to work this morning, I think most folks should consider this round subsonic to be a 125 yard max round for most uses.

The interesting thing is the big bullet does not drift much even at 200 yards in a 12mph wind...

I don't know that thunderbeast is best by far, but its what I ended up with... would have liked the 338 mag version for all around but could not afford it....

I'm also wondering if the 240 will be less stable in a 1 in 8" twist, which might make it tumble better. Won't know without testing.

Still want to acquire some of those Lehighs

BTW that first exit photo looks a lot like the exit from a 110 Accubond, launched out of a .25-06

Jeff, I have to look into it, the shop that I frequent only handles AAC suppresors, they are set up to help you do the tax stamp etc. I may see if they could order me one. The AAC I am sure will be more convenient "off and on" but its steel and weights 23 ounces! I also recollect someone speaking about loss of accuracy with this type of flash hider attach suppressor. Me I am going to be shooting 25-100 yards max, but don't want to ruin accuracy in the weapon.

I've an issue, just me, with folks that cant' unscrew and screw one back on. Half inch or so of threads won't ruin my life taking it off and on...

Another revelation.

My buddy tried anotehr doe at 100 yards. Said he swears he saw her try to spin at the shot before the bullet got to her, hit her, and spun her the other way.

Never found her.

Then later found the bullet on the ground expanded, with a wad of white hair where she stood.

I"m guessing that somehow she was going to move, not that she heard the shot, and that it all happened as he pulled the trigger and it simply changed the impact area to the brisket on her, it opened, clipped some hair and nothign else. Much like a low arrow shot.

I fail to see how a deer could otherwise more or less stop the bullet at 100 yards. I'm suspecting deflected as it passed through and hit the dirt is more like it.

Just an update, I'll keep relaying the good the bad and the ugly regardless as a learning issue for us all if anyone is interested.

I have at least one more deer to go. If not two. But i have no clue if I can shoot em with that gun or have to grab the 257 instead....

Gut shoot them.

Do it in the wrong spot and you won't get much blood, and they will travel for miles.

I've also seen ham shots that left essentially zero blood on the ground.

If the bullet was fully expanded, he hit a lot more then just hair.

That's what happens when you shot everything square in the middle of the heart Roost, you don't get to see all the "fun" effects when someone doesn't.

Nope, no gut shot. We've a bit of experience finding deer over the years. It happens when you are around 50 or more deer shot a year. For as long as I can recall. Gut shots show specific sign and reaction and are very easy to find if you follow the time rule.

Was just clipping the brisket by the hair, went through the meat and fat, just under the ribcage from all the evidence.

She will be back around this weekend.

Ham hits generally bleed out quickly, but thats assuming a centered hit in the vessel rich regions. Its amazing how quickly a centered ham hit will kill a deer, especially with an arrow. I don't think I"ve ever seen a ham hit go more than 20-30 yards with an arrow.

If that bullet had hit the guts, it would not have exited on an angular shot. Have seen that already with that bullet. Kills fine but its not made for lengthwise penetration.

Btw the dog indicated he was nuts for looking, just a bit of wound and nothing more, but that didnt' keep him from searching the wide open areas of that part of the land, for 5 hours in a grid serach before giving up.

Bullet probably expanded from hitting the dirt.

Merry Christman Rost. I appreciate you posting this thread. Since I usually kill stuff on the other end of the velocity spectrum, (.270 Win and 7mm STW), it's been very informative. I've never killed anything with a bow, and when you hunt in open country, if a critter runs 30 yards, you never loose sight of them before they go down. In addition, with the exception of mountain lions, we are not allowed to use dogs here for hunting anything bigger then geese. However, with the conditions typically associated with your part of the world, a good dog would make a lot of sense.

That sucks not being able to use a dog to trail if you have one.

But years of bowhunting, I can make do without a dog too. You learn that from archery.

Its amazing how things kill. If you've ever actually seen a lot of animals die, you also know well that they generally don't die quickly. Not nearly as quickly as folks think. But high speed can sure shock them hard enough to make a person think they are layign there dead.

Having done more than a few head shots in my life, its always amazing to head shoot one, get down 5 minutes later and find they ain't going anywhere, pool of blood on the ground and the heart still beating.

I've killed with just about everything too so I've about seen it all. The thing I hate the worst is 45 cal round ball MZ. They just are not that great from many deer. Move to 50 and it changes... go figure.

Merry Christmas back to you.

And FWIW the thread was meant to inform folks that might be going down this same road for whatever reason.
Not meant to try to get folks to do the same, but I've found very little data out there, and or pics and results.

I'm betting we get to see the doe from one of my last posts before Sunday mornings hunt is over.

Jeff

Thanks for thee posts rost495, fixing to try the lehigh 194 on a few hogs to start with out of a 8.5" suppressed ar. Cant wait!

Good luck. If you can snap a few pics, its all good info, bad results or good...

jeff