I am researching my first AR platform. I have access to a hog problem area and want to go fast repeat fire with a night thermal clip-on viewer. I'm not convinced that the .223 is enough cart. for fast death on hogs. Has anyone experience with the 6.5 Grendal on hogs? I don't like the weight total for AR-10 platforms or I would go to either a .243 or .260 in one of them.

Comments and experienced insight really appreciated.

If you're going thermal, then go quiet. Get a can and go 300 BO shooting heavy bullets at subsonic velocity.

Where I'm at hogs run at the first shot and getting over 3-4 can be challenging. Running a can could let you get serious about helping the hog problem. And since you're going thermal, what's another $1000?

I've also killed a few with 55 gr NBT's and 77 gr SMK's in the puny 223 but at supersonic speeds, they seem to die good enough. If you don't want to go suppressed, then any caliber will work.

why not 6.8SPC2?

They sort of look the same to me balistically.

6.8 seems more popular by far. On the AR10's they are boat anchors.

Plus one on the 6.8 SPC

I certainly like my 6.8. Unless you are shooting considerable distance the 6.8 is the way to go IMHO and the way I went.

yes the six .8 suppressed or unsuppressed is the ticket on deer and hogs 325 and under, farther out something with more horsepower is needed

While were on this subject, who makes a good upper and what barrel length is recommended for the 6.8?

if I really wanted to dent the pig population, and that was my main reason for shooting, suppressed 1022 with a big mag on it.... sub sonic 22 hps... 1-2 shots in the lungs on every pig you find, and most won't be big enough typically that the 22 can't do it... and while they'll run a ways I've never seen 125 pound and under pigs not die from a 22 lr HP in the lungs...

6.8 works really well in 16-18" barrels. I have a 16" Precision Reflex upper. I love it but it was $1,000. It is a match grade SPR barrel.

A cheaper alternative is Iron Works who is a sponsor on the 6.8 forums. They use an ARP barrel which is very good and very popular.

http://shop.ironworkstactical.com/category_s/1843.htm

Would think 6.8 would work well, as would X39. And Grendel. Probably not a hill of beans difference between em.

Though anyone that thinks the 223 is lacking when running TTSX bullets needs to rethink it all.

Yeah a 223 loaded with tsx bullets isn't the same creature as loaded back in the 70s-80's with varmint bullets.

They make TTSX bullets for the 6.8 as well

the 95 TSX has my interest peaked in the 6.8, but I am ignorant about such things. However wondering if momentum does not play some part in penetration such as on the larger hogs, deer are easy to kill. Anyone shoot thru a 200 or so pound hog with a 70 grain TSX out of the 5.56??

If you are interested in how the copper bullets perform in the 6.8, this is a good thread.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthre...e&p=456500&viewfull=1#post456500

Scott, that is tough to wrap your mind around, but there it is! The heavier slower 110 grain TSX expands more and expands at longer distances than the 85 and 95 grain monolithic bullets which are as you would expect going faster! My experience of 1 with the 110 grain 30 caliber Vor-TX bullet at about 2100 FPS was clear the exit hole was bigger than any 22 caliber TSX or bonded bullet I had used in the 5.56, thru again both shoulders at sub 100 yards. very cool stuff!

I bet when I put the 95 ttsx into a buddies dads 270 it'll expand very nicely though.

that link he showed just had me scratching my head, the 110 at slower velocity expanded more than the lighter TSX bullets, cannot figure that one out unless that specific bullet weight has a deeper hole in the nose or some other construction parameter that makes it different. I will say this again, the 110 30 Cal Vor-TX is a real good bullet.

I forget, but what is the difference between the 6.8 and 6.8spc or whatever it's called?

No doubt the 6.8 does more damage.

Jimmy,

From his testing, he stresses kinetic energy over velocity. The best example is the 85 TSX and the 110 TSX both designed for the 6.8. They have the same nose cavity. The 110 TSX only needs about 1800 fps to open but the 85 TSX needs 2100 fps. At those speeds the kinetic energy about equal.

The 95 TTSX supposedly will open down to 1600 fps because it has a tip and a bigger nose cavity. When you compare it to the 110 TSX out to 300 yards it's pretty consistent. If you pushed it further, the 95 TTSX will likely perform better.

Also Hornady just came out with a 100 GMX for the 6.8 that will open down to 1600 fps to compete with the 95 TTSX.

Yes. It's built more like a pistol or muzzleloading TSX. Monstrous hollow point nose cavity with tip. Supposedly will open down to 1300 fps.

The 95TTSX for the 6.8 is similar in design.

What does kinetic energy have to do with terminal performance? In an Inelastic collision (which a bullet strike is) most of the KE is transformed into other forms of energy, mostly thermal.

Damn it Jim, I'm not a scientist. I think this is specifically around the 85 TSX vs. the 110 TSX which has the same nose cavity. The 110 has more cushion for the pushin so it opens at lower velocities.

I am thinking maybe momentum but I am not sure, heavier keeps going thru tissue and retains velocity better in tissue when launched at similar velocities. So maybe momentum - retained velocity creates work on the nose and opens it further.

I believe the hollow depth portion of the TSX bullets are the same distance from the base of the bullet in all weights. The longer petals have more leverage to peal them back.

Well placed 77 SMK's will knock the schit right out of 'em. Good regular 5,56 at 3150 don't leave a lot standing, either.

Go check how much they like Bricktop's .223 Hawkeye..

Just sayin'. It's all about hunting with what you like to carry and shoot, really.

I killed a big sow with a 75 grain swift from a 16 inch barrel, she dropped at the shot. The 110 grain TSX at 2500 or so interests me.

What is the best powder for the 110 grain bullets in the 6.8SPC2???

I've killed several hogs with a 22 LR, one can make anything work if need be.

sorry I edited my reply above, what powder do you use for the 110TSX?

Most people use A2200 but it's hard to find. I pretty much just use TAC which is a little slow but it works good enough with 110-120 bullets which is what I shoot. I use TAC for so many other rounds so it's easy.

I load mine out to 2.95 with the 110 TSX to get it closer to the lands. The 85 & 110 TSX has the ogive on the first band which is really unusual. 31.5 of TAC using SSA brass was good for 2575 wight eh 110 TSX out of a 16" barrel.

Barnes list 31 of A2230 on their website. I'm sure H335 would also work well with the 110 TSX.

I'd also recommend the ASC 15 round magazines. They are reliable and you can load bullets out to 2.32 vs 2.26. Gives you more room to work with since the 110 TSX has the ogive so far back.

Also, keep an eye out on SPS. I bought 500 TSX for $210 when they were selling overstock. I'm sure it had something to do with their acquisition of Silver State Armory.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/6-8mm-110-grain-barnes-tsx-500-count-bulk-box.html

I think this will be my project for this year, I may have to buy a new scope as well.

Never knew Barnes sold in 500 round boxes or in bulk. New one on me unless they could be blems or 2nds possibly.

I just came back from Texas. While there I had a chance to try my ar in 300 blackout on hogs. I only saw one group but I hit 3 of them recovering two and the other made it to the brush. I was running 125g nbt's at 2250 fps. Pretty exciting running shots in an open field. I had a red dot sight. I can't wait to do that again sometime. I wouldn't mind trying a 450 bushmaster, 458 socom, or 50 Beowuf next time.

Bb

Good job. Running shots may not have a thing to do with the round, more likely the placement.

Pigs generally are not hard to find once lethally shot. Even in brush.

you recon a 110 grain Vor-TX at 2100 will equal a 62 grain TTSX at 2900

Placement was less than ideal on the running shots. First shot on the first one was front shoulder and required two more to finish it. The first one really slowed it down though.

I'd use the blackout again on pigs. I like the little round. I've been running 110 vmax's at 2500 fps for rabbits and varmints. I threw together the 125 NBT loads right before heading to Texas because the nbt has a lot thicker jacket then the vmax. I also have some 125 accubonds loaded but didn't get an opportunity to try them.

Bb

Dunno, I'd shoot em with my 223s and not even worry about anything...

10-4, I am thinking just to forget the 6.8 and keep killing chit with my 223's.

Kill chit with both. 6.8 spc is a worthy project for a man in search of a project.

I wonder if a subsonic from a 458 SOCOM suppressed would do a bit of good. Probably any 500 gr would work.

Can't imagine it not working.....

I can tell you that Gunner's .450 Bushmaster worked like a champ when I borrowed it. Wasn't running subsonic, though.

I keep thinking a trim SOCOM (Beast, maybe) would make a fun AR for bear. A modern Guide Gun ......

George

first thing i thought when i handled one

Don't be fooled, I'm not giving up my SBL, but the SOCOM seems like a good mate!

i wouldnt eather, love that 45-70 of mine but one of the big bore AR uppers are in my future

Wish I had a socom or other 45 instead of beowulf, then could get compatable can for 45 acp/45/70....

If you just want a 6.5 Grendal then build one, But I have worn out 3 .223s shooting pigs, it kills them dead,no matter what size they are, and I don't use any special hand rolled super bullet, powder, Zombie, load, just factory 55 gr btsp, and I have killed pigs with every thing from a .22lr up a 404 Jeffery, it ain't what you shoot them it's where you shoot them,I carry a .223 ar-15 in my jeep and kill pigs almost every day year around . rio7

What ever you fancy, spelling it correctly (6.5 Grendel) might help with the Google Fu...

Finally someone that gets it and understands and agrees with my thoughts.

Of course you can run whatever, but no flies on the 223.

sorry but i still don't get it. what exactly is needed to kill pigs?

PETA is gonna be all over you, them poor helpless stinkin vermin.

Grendel or 6.8 either one would make a good hog/deer rifle, better than the 300 by a long shot. The Barnes or Hornady GMX bullets will pass through end to end regardless of how many bones are hit.

Hit the jackpot today.Found Grendel load data.
https://www.tumblr.com/blog/www-grendelreloadingdata

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I'm shooting 28gr of IMR XBR 8208 with a 123gr sst, 2365 fps avg out of my 14.5" barrel and scary accurate. I doubt I'll change that load out any time soon.

They're all looking really sleepy.

i think they sleep a lot. i've heard that in the daytime you can walk right up on them while they're asleep.

Here is a 12 shot 100yd string, 14.5" Sabre defense CL barrel, standard AR trigger, bushnell AR scope. ~1.25" with above load prone with bipod mixed headstamp brass. The next 10 shot group opened up to 1.75", either me or the barrel was getting warm since I shot 20 rounds without stopping .