What pencil barrels, 16", mid-length do people like for a build in .223 Wylde or 5.56?

Primary use: hunting pigs and such

Secondary use: personal defense

No plans to engage in competition, or suppress.

Accuracy desired, but reliability a must.

Daniel Defense makes a great one. I had one with carbine gas and it shot smoother than my Colts do. Very accurate for a chrome lined skinny barrel too.

I have used a couple of melonited barrels for AR performance and been very pleased. They are as thin a profile I have seen, come standard in .223 Wylde and tend to be in stock most of the time.

I have a mid length 16" pencil barrel from BCM I like a lot.

Daniel Defense makes an accurate pencil barrel. Mine is 3/4-1 MOA, thinking of buying another. I would use a free float tube on any barrel however for hunting.

jimmy:

I like the Midwest Industries Gen II SS series 12" hand guard. There was one at the Texas hog hunt and it felt oh so right in the hands.

Daniel Defense is your answer. Its not technically a pencil barrel but the lightweight profile is what you want. Add a BCM KMR to it and it would be perfect.

ETA: FN is another to consider. I have one (PSA CHF Premium) that shoots very good for a light weight chrome lined barrel.

I have one of the daniel defense lightweight barrels and they shoot great. It shot hornady match 75 bthp so good i decided to not even load for it. The 75 bthp does a number on deer and hogs also. I even have shot it with a big ole 2# suppressor on it and it moved impact but still shot small groups, but now i run a yankee hill titanium 1# suppressor on it, for my lighter builds. that ar with the dd lw barrel is just so dam consistent.

I've got the Noveske Rogue Hunter and its a nice lightweight rifle.

I have a Voodoo 16.5 rifle gas that shoots well. 21 oz

I have cmmg pencil, chrome lined, 1/7 that shoots well.

bhw

I've looked at those on their website after reading a number of recommendations here on the 'Fire, but it's not the blueprint I'm looking for. The Novekse sports an 18" barrel with a 15" hand guard.

I had the opportunity to handle several really nice ARs at the hog hunt in Texas this year, and although I didn't shoot any of them, I liked a couple that I picked up. One was built by the owner, the other purchased complete.

These were 16" skinny barrels with 12" hand guards. With scopes mounted, they pleased me mightily. More weight on the muzzle end would mess up the "feel" that I'm looking for.

The Noveske a Rogue Hunter comes in a 16" length as well. It's a few oz. more than a true pencil barrel but being SS will give a slight edge in velocity and be more accurate than a chrome lined barrel. Mine is a 16" with a 13" Troy Alpha rail.
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This is a Colt 16" pencil barrel [/URL]

I stripped these guns down and weighed them. 6.5 lbs for the pencil barrel Colt and 7.1 for the Noveske light weight. So if true light weight is what your after, go DD light weight

It's a great looking rifle, and I totally missed the 16" model on the website.

7.1 pounds is nearly two pounds heavier than some of the lightweights I've seen, though.

Mine has one of these barrels on it ; Black Hole Weaponry It's a 16" pencil barrel, 1:8 twist, mid-length gas system, 12" Daniels Defense lightweight handguard with a Magpul grip and MOE Carbine buttstock.

I forgot to add, mine is wearing a Leupold 2x7 VXR in a one piece Leupold mount. It weighs 8.2 Lb with a full magazine.

BHW gives you a LOT of options when ordering these barrels. Oh, and they feature polygonal rifling. Very, very accurate barrel.

Ed

Ed:

That looks like the direction I'm going in. The description on the website looks interesting, but it doesn't have the weight of the barrel.

Do you recall what your rifle weighs, empty and without scope and mounts?

I should add that I run H2 buffers and SOPMOD stocks with extra batteries and odds and ends which add weight but are worth it to me. I could bring the weight down so don't focus on the total weight just the 1/2 lb difference.

I don't know what it weighs stripped. I only weighed it while trying to figure out which rifles I was going to use for my next class. I guess I could strip it down. That way I can also test the repeatability of my scope mounts.

Ed

Well, if you must.

This is the blueprint, more or less, of what I'm looking for:

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1320

This is the model, I believe, that G&A reviewed recently in their AR-15 magazine this year. MI doesn't list the weight, but G&A weighed it at "5.14 lbs."

Yes, I could just buy this rifle, but the wisdom of the 'Fire suggests I might, could build something like this with better barrel and trigger for about the same money. (The website says the trigger is "Mil-Spec/standard, 7 lbs. I'm sure I can do better.)

That's funny, isn't it? The trigger weight is almost 2 lbs heavier than the rifle.

So, you could pick the rifle up by the trigger, and not have a ND.

It's a safety issue.

My DD V7, a mid-length, has their lightweight barrel and leaner modular float rail. It shoots very well and feels right. It seems that the bare rifle goes right at six pounds.

EdM,

Which scope mount is that pictured?

Thanks

The MI gun looks nice. The $229 SSA--E would fix the trigger, aero precision LW sbr mount and a VX-R or VX-6. I think I am going to build mine to get exactly what I want.

The idea of a 1/4 MOA Noveske barrel is appealing yet a 1MOA DD barrel that costs less and will take a lot more abuse makes more sense to me. 1000 rounds fired fast to get the barrel pretty hot could possibly turn a 1/4 MOA SS barrel into a 1MOA barrel anyway, 700 full auto rounds is said to do this to a BHW barrel "on the internet" anyway and who does not get their barrel pretty hot sometimes practicing at silhouettes and stuff?

So as I do not shoot prairie dogs at 500 yards but deer and pigs at sub 200, unless I just want to shoot off the bench when will I ever know its a 1/4 MOA?? A 1 MOA barrel standing up on your hind legs or shooting out of a stand will bust a pig at as many yards and as easy as a $450 1/4 MOA barrel except maybe in some fantasy. I will also stick with 1-7, I know it works with a 70 grain TSX.


For fun a DD pencil barrel for $289 is just not fat in front of its 0.750 inch gas port and is 21 ounces vs 27 ounces for the government profile. The Noveske LW is 30 ounces and of course "more money". The Geiselle 13 inch SMR is 15 ounces with their 2 inch nut. With everything but the muzzle device and with the DD LW profile barrel I figure 62.5 ounces or 4 pounds. Add your lower of choice average 2.5 pounds or so and your at 6.5 pounds? The 15 inch (I am also looking at) KMR rail will be but 8 ounces and get you to 6 pounds even.

The Aeroprecision SPR mount (which I have an like) is 4 ounces, the VXR 2-7 x 33 is 13 ounces so total with KMR rail (I think) is 7 pounds with the scope and mount.

Ed:

I think the sweet spot for me is going to be somewhere between 5 and 6 pounds. Attention to the weight of each component is going to be important. Where the weight is, is going to be important, for handling.

Jimmy:

As I mentioned above, the primary purpose is going to be hunting. It will be a walking varminter/pig gun. Ranges will be 100 yards or less for most shots, and I don't expect to shoot beyond 200 yards at any game.

The capability of three rounds in an inch (average) from a cold bore with hunting ammo would be great. I'm not going to cook the oil off the barrel at the range for S&G. If the day comes when I ever have to repel boarders in and around the house, all it needs to do then is function reliably.

10-4, I changed my post above and did some more weight calculations. That criterion barrel on that thing must be skinny as all get out to make a 5.5 pound upper gun, I wonder what the rail weights? If flexes a lot it will hit the gas block.

I am not crazy about their V7 handguard after I dropped this rifle and had the hand guard move on me but here is their LW barrel. The bull is 2 inch diameter. I have talked myself out of a stainless steel barrel I guess. For a while I thought it was a fluke but DD marketing dude confirmed average 1MOA for me.

A cheap Nikon.

LOL. I've spent a little time weighing components on various websites - when I can find weights.

and then you put a scope, and mount on it! I have an extra SWFA 1-4 which is 14 ounces, plus a mount if you use LT-104 8 ounces IIRC. The Aero mounts are insanely light, the one I have is working fine so I may get another one.

I've yet to see an AR weigh on my scales at 5.5 lbs but my scales may be off too. The lightest one I've seen was a 14.5" pencil barrel and it was 5.9.

My LW uses Rainier Arms upper without a forward assist, Colt pencil barrel and a shaved gas block. A shorter Troy Alpha rail would cut down some weight as would a standard carbine buffer and a semi bolt carrier or get radical with a JP system. Makes me want to try again and build another...

I must resist!

That KMR rail is pretty darn light, would give you the chance to get away from Troy!

There can't be many. G&A says the MI they tested was less than 5.25 lbs. Most of the ARs I've picked up have felt well over that, but in fairness, they mostly have a lot of gear bolted to them so it's hard to judge.

Barrel weights from the makers are all over the map, but you occasionally see one advertised at 1.5 lbs.

I'm going to talk to the gunsmith who built my .223 Remington bolt action rifle about this. He does up some heavy barrel ARs for long-distance match shooting, and he'll surely have an opinion as to this one way or another. Probably a negative one, given his predilections.

I've had about 6 true pencil barrels and can't really see where they could shave any weight from them without compromising the barrel. I also would rather have a smoother shooting AR than one that tries to beat itself to death with a light buffer and carrier. I know JP makes a system but it's rather pricey. I've ran shaved carriers before and just don't like them.

My Kimber Montana's weigh 5.5 lbs bare and I just don't see where an AR could get that low but these new rails might get it done. It's tempting...

I'm not sure what you mean by shaving weight off a pencil barrel. I assume you didn't shave yours. How much did they weigh?

As for the BCG, I'm not going to compromise reliability by messing up that. I don't know exactly how Midwest Industries got all the weight off their lightweight rifle, but if they did it by making it unreliable in some way, then I wouldn't want to go there.

Mine were all Colt and one DD but by looking at them, there's no way to trim anymore weight off the barrel itself. Uppers and lowers look ordinary. Just wondering how they got the weight down.

If they used a smaller gas port, a low mass carrier, extra power buffer spring and a light bufer and got it all matched up right, that would be a giant step towards losing weight and still run right. It's interesting.

wonder what bolt carrier they use?

Jimmy:

The MI website says "M16 bolt carrier group." That's all.

well that would have been an ounce or two. I am shooting for 6 pounds myself.

When saved ounces are essential, Criterion-manufactured lightweight contour barrels provide the perfect fit. With an overall weight as low as 1.40 pounds for the 16" model, our pencil contour barrels offer an extremely lightweight configuration allowing for rapid acquisition and maximized mobility. Uniformity of the bore dimension, groove dimension, and twist, along with a finish produced by hand lapping prove to be necessary in enhancing the ultimate accuracy of each match quality barrel. These barrels will accept both .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO ammunition. Also included is an M4 barrel extension.

The DD barrel is 1.38 lbs bare, add a low profile gas block and you're at the same weight. My Troy 13" rail weighs 13 oz. So I'm still wondering where the extra .5 lb. is coming from. But regardless, it's making me want to try again with weight or lack of, as the main goal.

Thanks guys, I can always count on y'all to keep me broke.

I hate this place as well.

Just put a stock Colt SP1, built in the '70s, on the scale.

6.75 pounds.

I can improve on that, I think.

Carbine with aluminum stock?

Nope. Full size rifle

Pre-bolt assist, though. I don't know how many ounces that would be.

I just built one with a black hole wesponry slim contour 16" and a Midwest ask keymod 12" rail with a magpul ctr stock. It's around 6.25 pounds but they make a slimmer barrel than mine. Still working on loads but it's shot some 1/2 moa groups with 75g hornady btsp's over ar comp. I really like it and have been carrying it everywhere with me. I hope to try a few more loads with 8208 tomorrow.

Bb