Will be my first AR...other than my S&W 15-22

Using an Aero Precision lower.....9T 16" SS Shilen barrel......

Two tone black/sand colors...more info when its assembled...

Tell me about your experiences...load data....have W296..H110

AA9...IMR4227....Rem 7.5's....mismash of 308 bullets...want to stay

in the 135-150 gr range...have 2K formed brass coming from GCG

Brass in TX......LC 1X'd I'm told...ready to load...my dies are

Forster BR FL set w/Lee FCD.....AR will be optics ready..1-4X in mind

If you are not going subsonic with heavy bullets then a 9 twist would be fine. Lil'Gun is another good powder for supersonic Blackouts.

Load bullets to Mag Length 2.25" OAL. I have owned two and both ran flawlessly loaded to mag length.

when I had mine the Barnes 110Vor-TX was "da bomb". I only bought loaded ammo and never bought dies for it, so loading I don't know.

Those powders will all work; 296/H110 will give the best velocity. The Blackout is at it's best with 110-125gr bullets though; the heavier 130-150gr stuff goes bang but is not ideal, velocities are low enough that you can't expect much, or any, expansion with them.

Build it like any other AR, just with a 300 barrel. Do yourself a favor and make sure it has a pistol length gas system and 1:7 or 1:8 twist, if you intend to run subsonics. If you don't plan on heavy subsonics, something like a 1:12 twist is fine.

it will shoot thru a deer, that is all I know.

I wouldn't spend a lot on the lower. The money is best spent on a great barrel.
I'm running a Barnes upper over an older RRA lower. H110 under sierra 110 and nosler 125.

I know it will with expensive bullets with the 110-TACX. How does it perform with 110 Varmints from Nosler or Hornady? My friend has a 9" barrel Blackout and was looking for a hunting load. Wasn't going to spend $35 a box for Barnes. I suggested either 110 V-Max for Varmintgeddon. SPS is selling loaded ammo for $13 a box this weekend so he picked up 10 boxes. Anyone use these bullets or VMAX for deer hunting?

I have no clue why anyone wanting to shoot lighter bullets and supersonic, would pick the 300/221.

Thats a great realm to be running the 7.62x39, and you don't have to buy expensive brass, form brass etc..... and you can even run surplus for making noise...

300/221 is the realm of suppressed subsonics again IMHO.

Good luck with this.

iv'e had a Rock barrel for the round for an AR for a few years now, once I remembered about AR action noise, I just went and bought a bolt gun for the round instead... I'll likely build eventually, but it won't be for super sonic rounds.

why would you worry about how much a bullet costs to guarantee when you go hunting a living breathing animal that the animal is dispatched in a humane fashion? It is totally beyond me why people fret over spending a $2.00 a shot but then spend thousands on guns, rifle scopes, transport to and from, clothing,boots. This has been on my desk for a while, I will share it. Forgot to add smile face.

I don't see a person having any difficulty killing deer with a 125gr NBT at those velocities. At half the price, I'd stick with the NBT's.

With the extra insurance a barnes gives, being I'm human and prone to make a mistake, i"ll spend the bit extra on them almost all the time.

I have had good results in the X39 with the 125 BTs though in the nephews gun. Nothing that really bothers me, but the Barnes gives even more insurance.

I still don't get folks running the little 300/221 supersonic other than the gun writers all hyped the thing up. And hte X 39 is old and boring I guess.

Why fret over $2 per shot out of an AR?

Because in a years worth of shooting 30 and 18 cent ammo the money saved would buy 3 or 4 rifles

practice with cheap!

Who would practice to any extent with expensive bullets of any kind?

I certainly never did other than to verify drop/drift/zero's.

to add, we shot a lot of competition, we never shot the expensive ones except at full distance matches.

200 and even 300 and in, we shot a lot of bulk bullets that would shoot well or just cheaper than match bullets.

Just made sense to do it that way.

if I was only going to shoot 50-100 rounds a year it wouldn't matter. But shooting a lot, we shot others, and simply changed the sight setting going to good. Easy to do.

I have zero's on a 308 for 3 different bullets. And I generally carry 2 types while hunting, depending on how far I might have to shoot...

Mine is a 16" 7.5 twist 5r with a carbine gas system. It shoots great with 208 amax subs or 110 vmax's and 125 nbt's super. For supersonic lighter bullets I've had great luck with pp300mp. I worked up my own loads but you have to be careful because little changes in seating depth can change pressure quite a bit in the little case.

The 125 nbt at 2250 fps worked well on hogs. I also have some 125 accubonds but haven't used them on game. I figured at these sedate speeds the nbt was enough and it seemed to be. The 110 vmax at 2500 is pretty explosive but it would probably work on deer. I've also shot the 130 hornady sp and it shot well too. I haven't tried the 110 Barnes yet but it looks like it works. I think the speer 125 Tnt would be worth trying on game too.

Bb

I hear a lot of people saying that the blackout is really best suppressed and serves little purpose supersonic.
That makes little sense to me. Would the same be said of the Russian?
What about the 30 carbine?
Why not pigeon hole them as well?
The ballistics are all but identical to the 8mm Kurtz.
Should we deny its superior place in history against lesser weapons of the time FOR THAT BATTLEFIELD?

if going supersonic, why go through the fuss of a specialty round, when the X39 works just fine, even with a cheap model one sales upper?

Thats always been my point.

The 300/221 works better suppressed becasue of less case capacity with heavy bullets and thats an issue, best accuracy is almost always better at 100 percent density.

IE I would not liek to try to find subs with a 308 and deal with all that extra case capacity...

Just my take on the whole thing.

I'd use a 30 carbine but my go to 194 lehigh isn't going to get enough powder in that small case I don't think, to get it close to 1000 fps, much less not stuck in the barrel possibly

Again, the X39 has lots of ammo choices, its not a specialty thing. Cheap plinking ammo, easy to load accurate ammo, kills well with 125 bts, and I'm sure with 110 ish X bullets.

Because availability of a variety of .308 projectiles and an almost infinite supply of parent brass.
I think it bears mention that the Russian was born out of the same fire as the Kurtz, the first urban combat theaters.
The need for something with greater killing power than the subgun but less recoil, and carry weight as the battle rifle.
The 556 likewise was born of a previous conflict, Korea. Where the American troops were greatly outnumbered and need to have a large capacity and low carry weight was born.
In each case armies built weapons based on the prior failing and desire to prevent reoccurring issues. And each time missing the mark on predicting future conflicts needs.
The BO is very much an American x39/ Kurtz. Albeit 50+ years late.
The need to project heavy bullets at closer range in urban environments due to the failure of the 556.
I don't thing it's the absolute answer, personally. But its a step in the right direction IF...BIG IF...we are to maintain the Stoner platform.
If we abandon the rifle and build something as innovative as it was, then we can invest in a different concept.
Who knows what that may be.
Perhaps a x47 with a mono-metal...I can't say.
But for now, as an urban defensive round the BO trumps the 556.
As a practical hunting round for medium game at practical distances the BO trumps!PS the 556.
As an interior assault or MOUT round it trumps the 556.
And if needed, yes , as a heavy and suppressed cartridge, it trumps the 556.
In fact, if I was riding shotgun outside the green zone, hunting deer, protecting my home and neighborhood post disaster, assaulting an urban position or serving a HR warrant I'd choose the BO.

you guys are talking me into something dumb like getting a BO carbine. I liked the little round, just not the AR pistol, its report was a lot milder than a 223.

so why the BO now? Its been around since the 70s? Or so.

Whats with no X39 instead?

I think prevailing ideology was that our next military encounter would be in the European theater or that our Asian enemy would likely be Chinese. That we would mainly use heavy weaponry. do you use of the battle rifle, the m16, would most likely be a rear zone base weapon.
I don't think that it occurred to us until we got involved in street level fighting in the Middle East that the m16 round was ineffective either from the diminutive barrel, the light bullet, or the heavy bullet moving too slow.
we had to relearn what it took the Russians up until Stalingrad to figure out, did a moderate speed heavyI small and I small light rapid firing package was a superior urban combat weapon.
so now a generation later the United States finally realizes that the mp43, the AK 47, were designed for the battle zone we are seeing today.

So with billions of dollars invested in the stoner platform, rifles, magazines, training, ect we could either trash it all and start from scratch or use what we already have and make due.
We chose the later.
Now it may come to fruition that we adopt the BO militarily.
That's the best choice financially.

whats wrong with the X 39 in the AR? Gives same same ammo, I think that would be a HUGE issue thats a BIG plus......

Incompatibility of current BCG and magazines for one.
Colt tried it and at best it was problematic.
That couple with the problem of a .310 if the chance its ever adopted. The US has been running the .308 since the krag.

I like the 300 AAC myself and i use LilGun with the Speer 125 gr TNT as my go to bullet. I just purchased two box of the Barnes 110 gr TAC-TX bullets with the Black Polmer Tips to try next deer season. I always run my 300 BLK Super Sonic. I built my 300 AAC on a Stag LH Upper.

I wanted the blackout to do a sbr and loose only minimial velocity as possible. I like the barnes bullets, but im also fixing to try the vmax and varmeggedon, since its running at such a lower velocity and bullets will be cheaper! Barnes also came out with the 120 tac-tx for enhanced penetration compared to the 110 tac-tx, but its only available in loaded ammo so far. Noveseke 8.5" barrel. I lost a hair over 200 fps by going from 16" to 8.5"! I put it together for my sons first hunting rifle, but i guess i will get a little trigger time on it, since hes only 9 months old right now! Makes for a nice light suppressed sub 200 yard hunting rifle!

nice rig.......

This. The way I see it, is why bother with trying to make the x39 work in an AR, when you can just use the 300 Blackout? I load my own ammo, and don't see any advantage to the 7.62x39. Brass is harder to find, bullets are an odd size, and it uses more powder.

That's a nice little package....

if only one could pick up 1000 rounds of FMJ 110 or 120 grain ammo for $500!

Really interesting . Nephew runs surplus in his, plus reloads running .308 bullets. Has done NOTHING at all to the upper since he picked it up. Have never seen him have any kind of failures

Plus a big more case capacity since running super never hurt.

But if the 300 is your thing, get after it. I'd never get one for super when the x39 works as well and better for super.

ringworm,


Not to be rude, however that isn't why the 300BO came about. Pretty much everything you wrote is wrong.


Every single organization that has a choice chooses the 5.56 with blind to barrier ammunition for general use. The 300 Blackout is a specialty round at this point and there is little to no push towards it replacing 5.56mm among those who know how to shoot/fight.

scottfromdallas,

The 110gr Vmax has performed well on 100-200 pound mammals including deer. I do believe that the 110gr Blacktip Barnes offers overall nearly ideal terminal performance.

IIRC the Vmax was a bit cheaper, sadly as a creature of habit I always shoot shoulders. I don't know if Vmax would be the best bullet for this.

It'll penetrate shoulders, but wouldn't be my first choice if that's what I preferred to target.

Personally, I'll keep the Blackout for my short barrels, but for a carbine, I'm going to try a 30 HRT next. 125's at 2500-2600+, instead of 2100-2200 in the Blk.

its great there are endless varieties of fun stuff to try. The BO sucks because it is only 2200 or there about FPS, it sucks because it drops like a stone, it sucks as its not bench rest accurate, it sucks as factory ammunition is expensive and there is no cheap practice ammo, it rocks because a barrel will last forever, it rocks because it takes so little powder, produces fewer dB's even in supersonic form, punches through crap pretty good, and you don't have to have special magazines or a bolt.

I'm sure that there were many detractors against switch from the 06 to the x51.
Probably twice the number against the .223 switch from the x51.
The top of the german command was completely against the 8kurtz platform.
Just a guess, but I'd bet there were some old guys with white beards who said..." Smokeless powder? Bah! Never!"
Dissention doesn't prove rightness.
We, the US military, need an urban platform that makes the most from an abbreviated trajectory.
The days of needling a 500yard gun in the hands of an individual soldier are gone.

It's not like we already tried the 30 carbine or anything...

Those who think the 5.56 is on the way out have put way too much stock in the AAC marketing.

The 300BO is a great subsonic round but very poor given the same bullet constraints as M855. Loaded with a good hunting bullet, it's marginal at best.

Literally nothing you wrote is correct. Where are you getting this?


I'll make this easy- you have zero clue what you are talking about.



That'd not be a guess.

Yep.

the 30 carbine sucked against the Korean's or so I read on the internet. I shot a squirrel once with a carbine and ball ammo, it actually killed it.

The reason the 5.56 was adopted was because the 5.56 is light weight, compact, cheap, and has very little recoil.

This means that a soldier can carry a lot more ammunition for less weight (more than twice as much as with 7.62 nato), and less money; and they can fire their weapon a lot faster, and more controlably (especially in full auto). Also, the weapon itself can be shorter, lighter, and cheaper; because it doesnt have to resist the forces of a larger, more powerful round.

Yes, we adopted the 5.56 with a flawed wounding model, but in fact McNamara and the DOD didn't care... at all. What they were concerned about was that the 5.56 was light, and cheap. A soldier could carry 2.55 times as much 5.56 as 7.62 nato, but they cost the same.

Combined with the incorrect wounding model thought to apply to the round at the time, and the defense department (though not the military itself, especially the Army Ordnance Board), thought it was a win-win situation.

Well, it turns out they were wrong; and they knew they were wrong pretty quickly.

And now that our last 20+ years of conflict has been at , predominantly, street distance...the 5.56 is even more flawed.
A slower .30 isn't the absolutely answer but its an attempt.
My thought is a 7mm bullpup with fiber optic 2x and a 650-700 rpm ROF.

Regale is with all your high level military, shooting and killing experience with 5.56. Frost it with the same in 300BO. 7.62 as well. Don't forget 300WM. Oh and 4.6 to top it off.

How did you deal with the increased size and weight of 7.62 and the relatively poor terminal performance of 147gr ball? How did you get all your shooters to handle the recoil of a 7.62 battle rifle? Reliability and longevity? What was the average round count difference on targets between 5.56, 300BO, and 7.62 at close range? Did you notice mich difference between ball, Greentip, OTM, BTB, and A1? How did you deal with the increased wind drift past 200 with the BO? What platforms did you use? Barrel length? Subs or supers?

Yawn...
I spent many hours behind the A2. The BO beats it hands down in an urban setting.
I don't have to be standing on a pile of dead men to tell that.
The 5.56 works very well@ 3500.
Getting it there is less difficult than keeping it there.
So the great extended range superiority falls off when velocity drops, seeing that wound dynamics with such a small bullet depends on hydrostatics.
I suppose that there are some when faced with the train or the motorcycle would stay on the tracks because the cycly has more "energy"

The old "would you rather get hit by a train or a tiny car" cliche needs to die. Neither trains nor cars are penetrating projectiles that expand or tumble once inside you, so the comparison is absurd.

When bullets start running people over then it'll be valid. Until then, it's just a crutch, last ditch argument for people who don't know what they're talking about.

Ringworm in this case your simply full of beans or posting out of boredom trying to start a fight...

RW has always been an idiot, this is nothing new.

10-4.

deleted as offensive to a certain brand of rifle.

I thought it appropriate.

BTW I keep seeing uppers sans BCG for around 300 bucks IIRC, for the 300/221.....

I think it has more to do with the increased interest in suppressors. I have three 5.56 AR's, two 300 BO AR's and 0ne Rem 700 BO. Anything supersonic I use the 5.56/.223 but there's nothing more fun to me than shooting the blackout subsonic and suppressed. I actually harvested a Whitetail buck with my suppressed model 700 this past year. I don't recommend it but I did it at 30 yards with a 208 Amax.

Seeing as how the BO runs identical ballistics to the Kurtz and nearly identical to the Russian, your argument that its inferior to a 222 Remington is what's idiotic.
In the same platform, and fired from the same distance the little 22 loses.
I don't care that NATO hasn't adopted it...that's economics.
Physics doesn't lie.
And I am not to be influenced by people who think .223s are superior to shotguns inside dwellings.
Specificly a person who defers to what "organizations" do as his sole base of argument.
I am not overreached by a department head, council or CFO when making choices.
But, whatever guys. Enjoy your choice and have fun.

yes the M262 mod 1 will simply bounce off of 99.9999999% of everything, carry on...

Thats what I've been saying, its a pretty ideal round to run suppressed. Which is what I do. I've shot enough suppressed subsonic deer/turkeys now, that I can't recall the number. Over 10 for sure, I just don't keep track much anymore, and out to right at 175 yards.

Off topic, but yeah....I'd definitely take an AR over a shotgun inside a building.