anybody reload the 5.7?
getting an upper with a new purchase along with 1500 brass and bullets. mostly 40g bullets.
there is minimal info in the lyman 49th with the same "it's hard to load" theme.
any first hand info will welcome.(can't spell appreciated )
the upper is an AR57 and has a 16 inch barrel.
thanks in advance for info
tom

Ramshot has online data.

Let us know how the AR57 shoots, I've been curious about them, too.

I wasn't aware that new brass was availiable for the 5.7X28. Is this once fired brass ?
If it is, be aware that the shoulder of such brass may well be blown out quite abit. When I compared the fired brass from my FN pistol, I was really surprised by how much the shoulder had moved forward. On the order of .25 inches or more.
I have not reloaded the round for a rifle. In my handgun, using new brass from factory ammo, I was able to get some really accurate loads. Without going anywhere near maximum pressures using Ramshot Data, and Sierra 40 gr. Hornet bullets, I got far more penetration than either of the FN factory loads, but not as much explosive effect. E

yes Oheemicus, it is once fired I assume. I let myself go wild and bought off of gunbroker. got a 458 socom and an ar57 upper with a billet lower and tons of extra's including the 5.7 brass. the 57 upper is 16 inch and is going to be a learning experience. from what I can gather it is not something you want to slap together. with 1500 brass to load I think it will be a long winter project.
I had never really paid attention to the 57 but I always liked the hornet for ground squirrels and think this will be fun for that.
I bought the package really for the 458 socom. being a 45-70 nut I really like the 458 socom. have never really liked the AR platform until just lately. might have been late 60's experience that had me disliking it.
will post my attempts with the 5.7.

I am reluctant the reload my empties because of the potential for a head separation.
On the other hand, it comes in a really accurate, and very light pistol. And, as I've said, alot more impressive in performance than I thought it would be. If you want explosive effect, use the V-Max bullets. If it's penetration you want, use the hornet soft points. With the right loads, she'll group under .5 inches at 15 yds.
Saw one for sale yesterday, hardly used, like new, $1400.
I suspect you'll have alot of fun with your new setup. E

if that movement, scares you, and I listened to it, I'd likely have never loaded 95% of the surplus brass I bought in other rounds over the years.

check the brass iwth a feeler, and size it only to the chamber this time.

Could be the same with brand new brass if you had some, with a sloppy chamber....

because the fiveseveN pistol is blow back design the cartridge is partially ejected while under high pressure. this is what causes the stretching from all I have been able to read on the gun. continual setting back of the shoulder will weaken the shoulder area and cause splits but head separation is only likely after several loadings. from what I have read 2 to 3 loadings are common with some intrepid souls going many more. the reason that FN put the coating on their shells was to delay the ejection until pressures drop thereby mitigating the stretch in the short guns.
going to be interesting reloading with a whole set of new rules.

I have one of the 22 TCM pistols. It is similar to the 5.7x28 but runs in a 1911, with a locked breech. I would be fun in a light carbine.

continual stretching and sizing is what happens to any FL sized and fired round, just to different degrees.

Not that I have one or read about them, but I'd find it hard to believe you could not get a few loadings out of a round.

If you couldn't, the round would not work for my uses. Only factory ammo I've shot in many years have been shotgun and rimfire.

yeah, I would think a partial FL resize would work on it the same as anything else. Check the head space on a fired case, then set the sizer die so it only bumps the shoulder back .001-.002", and you should be good.

Rost and tex I think you are right though from my reading on this round in the pistol no one has addressed the partial resize. I find that strange as it has been a standard practice forever. like I said I bought the package for the 458 socom but am really looking forward to the 5.7 challenge.
I had a 32-20 once that I had to play with the shoulder setback (if you can call it a shoulder on the 32-20). I guess this is what makes reloading fun after 50 years, something new.

The 5.7 is a fun little round. I have reloaded (550B) over 1K and never got the 'hard to reload' comments. And its comical to hear the non-owners call it nearly identical to the 22WMR. Buy your brass for a reputable online source. I would not buy from Gunbroker since you really do not know the number of firings, however, I have sold 5.7 brass once on GB properly listed with the number of firing (4-5) and regardless, it sold fast. I limit pistol firings to 4 or 5 but I would think the rifle platform would offer a few more

fivesevenforum.com has lots of good information with several 'stickies' to read.

What is the velocity of the 31 grain bullets?

Rost, I've loaded lots of once fired brass as well. That includes some semi auto rifles like those made by Remington, Browning and a Colt AR-15. I've never seen the shoulder of a case blown out that much.
That and the fact that the facory ammo is loaded pretty light. And then the Accurate Arms/Ramshot data for this round is very clear that this round goes critical very easily. Ever see any data that advises one to increase one's loads by .1 of grain at a time ? I've seen data that said to sure and use exactly the components exactly as listed, but not anything like increasing powder charges at .1 grain intervals. They also have much different data listed for the longer bullets of the same weight.
I've been reloading ammo since 1958. I've never blown up a gun or even damaged one with reloads. This round, however, makes me very cautious because I've known lots who weren't very cautious. E

Ive a bit of loading too, under my belt.

Stretching can be controlled, its not voodoo or even rocket science. YOu learn that going through so many ARs and rounds a year, at one point wiht another family we were involved in a number of ARs and making sure that they all ran right and all loaded ammo was around 100K rounds a year...

In a small case, the ONLY way I'll increase powder is .1 at a time.

in 223 the ONLY way I'll increase is .2 at a time.

YMMV, I'm comfortable with whats worked for us for years and won for years and with zero of the so called blow ups or damaged guns.

heck I've even had some ammo piezo pressure tested due to concerns, to find it was just fine for what it was....

I would not be scare of a 5.7 either. I don't have a use for one, but would not bother me.

You have to understand a LOT of things in loading though, length of bullet, length of bearing surface, rifling you are using, any coatings, case capacity, chamber, ogive, lead angle and so on...

Folks that don't pay attention and substitute components on the fly can be asking for trouble if they are not backing off each time they change anything, including a primer etc....

isn't the 22 magnum about the same velocity? Why not one of those keltec PMR30's?

5.7 is a fair amount faster and with better bullets. Better yet, get both.

this is the kind of info I was looking for when I started this post. especially first hand knowledge.
like I said I started reloading 50+ years ago with the 45-70
and I will be the first to admit I have only scratched the ballistic surface. I haven't fired a factory round in 30 years(except 22 and hornady leverevolution).
I have joined the 5.7 forum and there is a lot of good info there.
I am so looking forward to working on this round along with the 458 socom. both are new to me though I have been working with the 458 for 3 months. new cartridges mean a new firearm! love the way that works.
the comparison to 22wm falls apart because of bullets. a better ballistic comparison is the 22 k hornet. no slouch there for vermin and varmints, 2 and 4 legged.
cant wait for it to get here. uppers coming to the house ups so I can drop the 57 on a lower and get rolling before the new lower arrives.
the 1500 brass coming with it are 1 fired and not cleaned so the coating should be good. I have a length gauge so that will be the first check.
enough rambling tonight. just got in from fishing high mtn stream for brookies and am pumped. probably caught 50 and kept 30. biggest was 10.5 inches. what a rush. time to go fry some
tom

Hey Jeff, long time......
Damn, 41k posts, when I invited you here years ago I never figured it'd turn into a full time life job for you:-)

This thread caught my eye. I don't reload but I had an "experience" with my FiveSeven and some handloads I purchased during the ammo shortage a few years back. I'd recently purchased this gun and couldn't buy a round for it. I walked in a pretty good shop and they had a, as in one, box of 5.7x28mm handload's on the shelf.
I scarfed them right up and headed out to shoot my new gun in.....

Well, 6 rounds later here's what I had.




So anyway, after a little clean-up, you know, blood, underwear, shells, all the pieces of what use to be my new over priced handgun, I put it all in a bag and headed to a very good reload shop I know of. We took some of the un-used rounds apart and found them to considerably vary in powder weight. Nothing was "hot" but they just had too wide of a weight range according to the professional guy doing the weighing. We'll never know what was in the round that destroyed my gun but no one questioned the problem was ammo failure. I do know that the first five rounds were not ejecting properly, not a clue as to why they weren't but the sixth round was the magic one.

So back to the "good" shop I'd purchased the reloads from to have a little talk. He took one look at what was left of my FiveSeven and took full responsibility of replacement of the gun and laser, it was a good shop with a responsible owner. He didn't buy me a new one gun, he shipped it back to FN and bless their soul's they replaced it.

Now I don't have ANY experience nor opinion when it comes to reloading these rounds..but FN did. Included with my brand new replacement gun was a letter, a very explicit letter regarding their opinion of reloaded rounds in this gun...Just to keep it short, I'll say they didn't think it was the best idea.

So - you bought someone else's handloads and fired them in your gun? That violates one of the primary rules about ammunition - don't use someone else's handloads.

I frequently see people selling their reloads, or grampa's reloads they found in the attic, and am always amazed when people buy it. IMO it's absolutely foolish to buy stuff like that, but you know that now of course.

All of that has nothing to do with the 5.7 caliber; any reloaded round can be dangerous.

That is one of the hazards of plastic framed pistols; blow a case head in a 1911 or other metal framed gun and the gun usually survives; usually not with a plastic frame.

If the charge varied a lot, probably either some of one charge got carried over into a 2nd charge, but also possibly it fired out of battery.

But anyway...Did the OP ever buy one of the AR57 uppers? I've been interested to hear how they shoot.

I agree 100%.
My first and only plastic gun.
The plastic is also what drew blood, the plastic IS what could cost you an eye or worse. It was scattered right around 25 feet in both directions from where the shot was fired. Our saving grace was the hay stack we were using for a rest, it shielded us from the bulk of the debris.



I don't want to debate reloading, I know many have great results, I also know many are hesitant to share their failures when speaking of their experiences. I had one poor experience 30 years ago and decided then I had no reason to use them....until I got impatient having a new gun that I couldn't buy rounds for. At the time, I let the quality of the shop I was in give me confidence or an excuse to go against my better judgment. I'm a rather detail oriented individual, if I were reloading my own I'd probably feel completely different about it.

Reload your own Jeff! Its much safer for a person like you!

Haven't seen you posting in some time...

Jeff

Too bad it wasn't a Ruger! Or a Star. Those don't blow up.

That makes sense, and I do understand the urge to go shoot a new gun with whatever ammo you can find. Obviously though you've discovered the danger of using someone's reloads of unknown quality.

I'm not against reloading; almost everything I shoot is reloads. I'm against shooting ammo that someone else reloaded, unless you really trust their quality control. Even the commercial reloaders fall in that category for me.

Tex, have been ill for a while and not following this.
yes i got the upper and it shoots great. the draw backs to the ar57 uppers is the long magazine makes it hard to mount optics. other then that it is a fun platform. can't wait for the ground squirrels to wake up.

well the ground squirrels woke up and the 5.7 is a hoot. i mounted a burris fast fire on it and loaded some 35g varmageddons(sp). crono at 2300+/-
today went to the farm and burned half a mag on dike rats.
20 squirrels for 25 rounds. ranges from 30 feet to 100 yards.
terminal ballistics .... messy!!

they are a hoot to shoot. I have reloaded some no problem just a few more steps. A Little crow WTF is your friend trimming after sizing. Headspace gauge and new brass available from Elite Ammunition. I had an issue with there brass and RCBS dies flash hole to small for decapping pin. Need to ream out flash hole.
brass out of stok now
http://www.eliteammunition.com/#!/E...ass-100-Pcs/p/64115523/category=18650027

Do the uppers include mags?




Dave

none came with mine. it was a blem from Midway. be warned it is an ammo hog in the hands of children and Nate(HawkI). 50 round mags empty to fast i suggest 10 round mags

mine came with 3 mags, but it came second hand.
i have seen them for sale but don't remember the price. one mag with 50 rounds last me all squirrel session. one problem i am having is ejecting a live round sometimes pulls the bullet leaving it in the barrel. i just carry a sectioned rod in a pouch for when i forget. i think this problem is just the bullets i am using which are 35g varmaggeddons from nosler. far forward ogive. i would change but they shoot so accurately and make sauce out of the squirrels.
i was really going to get rid of this upper but it is just too much fun. True Blue powder is your friend. HS7 was better but the mooks discontinued it.

Dave, the mags are 37.95 from the manufacture.
www.57center.com/

seating bullets shorter is so easy, and it usually doesn't change accuracy much... if the throat is done correctly in the barrel.

except when the ogive is placed where you cant get any tension. one of the problems i have encountered is neck tension. at first i thought it was my dies which were RCBS.
got a set of Redding's and it was the same. got a set of Lee's with a collet die and it made a difference.
by the way, i have a few years reloading too. started Christmas day 1958.

FWIW, CDNN has aftermarket 50rd mags for less than $10...

My best advice is to do your best at duplicating the factory offering.

This means getting some TrueBlue and some 40 gr. V-Maxes, a die that melds the contorted once fired crap back into the semblance of form and a trimmer that makes the cases the length they started at.

Use lube as liberal as possible, as the cases are soft on purpose.

A major factory has dished out as close as an unreloadable piece of bunk as they could. But it behaves when trained with a patient hand and by not trying to make it something it isnt.
Its definitely at home in an AR.

Hmm, do they make bushing dies? Or can you crimp enough?

I don't have a clue about this round.

I know I have enough case neck tension with 75 amax in 223 at mag length, and the case neck, end of it, does NOT touch the bullet, but there is enough neck contact lower down that its fine... looks weird, shoots fine

Nate's a whore.

I love him.



Clark

Sell a kid and buy a case or two of the factory stuff.




Dave

now that sounds like a real plan Deflave!
only problem is they frown on stealing kids and selling them. my only kid is 46 and i couldn't get 10 bucks on a good day.

i finally got a fcd from lee and it took the pain out of loading. other then the problem of neck tension loading these little buggers is like any other bottle neck.
it is just a hoot to shoot. i love the bottom discharge. i gutted a pos plastic ar15 mag pop it in and all brass is right there allowing me to keep my eyes on target rather then looking for thrown brass. i think the gen 2 uppers may be priced to high but for anyone wanting a fun small vermin center fire with almost endless rounds at hand needs one of these.

I'd spin an expander, maybe sell the the "little girls" for some Reddings and floating carbide expander.

Id suck on my gun muzzles nightly if I ever "needed" a LEE factory crimp or collet anything....

Hell, Id take wimp neck tension as an open invite to just cast as mess of 225s outta spite....

i found sitting position in shorts and bottom discharge finds a brass catcher which is a little painful.

Noslers mike .0005 smaller than Horns, thus have less neck tension. The flat bases also seat as consistent as goose [bleep] in the short dies, so thatcan also cause havoc.

If your gun eats factory fodder without incident, duplicating it is easy.

Pussy is more sensitive than sack....

can't be good!!!!! lol
If your gun eats factory fodder without incident, duplicating it is easy.
i haven't fired a factory round since 1981 when i bought a 375 winchester.

Thats why you're resorting to panaceas and having neck tension issues...

Its also why some neophyte posted a blown up contraption.

I'd be willing to bet one box of factory ammo contains more answers than any post you'll get; making it work without a squib rod for an AR is easy....

How does the 5.7 out of a carbine compare to the 30 grain CCI Minimag 22 magnum from a 16 inch barrel?

MPN 0059
UPC 076683000590
Manufacturer CCI AMMO
Caliber 22 WMR AMMO
Bullet Type Jacketed Hollow Point
Muzzle Velocity 2200 fps
Muzzle Energy 322 ft. lbs.
Primer Sure-fire CCI
Casing Brass
Ammo Rating Varmints

my 5.7 load
35g fb tipped varmageddon
velocity 15 ft from muzzle 2385fps
i will let you do the math as i haven't had my 2nd cup of coffee yet.



all i know is they blow the stuffing out of squirrels and starlings out to 125 yards. and are a hoot to shoot.
i went 35 years shuddering at the thought of picking up a AR but now wish i had gotten one years ago. went from none to 6 in a matter of months. 5.7 ,223,7.62x39,458.
and am looking at a 6mm. love the simplicity of altering them which gives me a lot of fun in my old age.

HawkI, if i can find a box of factory here in the puckerbrush i will try them. i don't have squibs and i realize that is not what your reference to a squib rod is about. the only bullet i have any problem with is the above Nosler. it has the far forward ogive that contacts the rifling. i would set them back a smidge but they are so accurate at this length i will just remember to remove the mag before the last shot.
next reloading session i will try another bullet or screw her down a little.
all told i don't have any gripes about this cartridge or platform.

be safe, Tom

is the 5.7 FN a blow back gun or is it a DI gun like an AR?

blow back no lockup at all. that is why it stretches the cases so bad.