I'm an experienced handloader, mostly rifle and handgun and a little bit of shotgun, but I'm new to handloading for an AR and found out there are many different dies sets out there.

Should I get small base? Will these dies over work the brass? I want the brass to live a long life. What about just standard full length dies? I use mostly RCBS stuff and I see they have AR-specific dies that feature a taper crimp instead of a roll crimp.

Which dies should I get? I just bought a new Ruger AR-556.

Thanks in advance.

I use standard RCBS, Hornady, and Redding. None are small base. Never any issues.

Redding FL bushing neck is what I finally settled on for brass life.

FL is more than enough though, I just prefer using bushings for the neck to control tension for accuracy etc...

No need ever for small base dies.

I've never crimped an AR15 round, used to load about 20K rounds a year.

I fill the case with powder and use the correct neck tension.

Forster bench rest dies. Get the Ultra bullet seater if you want a touch more convenience adjusting seating depth.

I also have a set of the Hornady headspace gauge set. I adjust the sizer die until the case shoulder is pushed back about .002" during sizing. You will get totally reliable function, and good accuracy.

keep the cases trimmed, sorted for weight, and you are done. I no longer crimp AR rounds.

RE trimming, I trim back, one time, something to the min or even a bit under, Its been so long since I trimmed, then with minimal sizing and neck bushings, I have actually fired brass up to 20 times without it ever exceeding the max trim to length. FWIW.

Excellent question. One of my friends and I have actually been wondering the same thing. We asked another friend last weekend, who has loaded for ar's since the 70's and he said he has used the "regular ol full length set, no small base dies and no special crimp". My friend and I were both still a little sketchy though, even though he's never had problems.. I'm curious to see what the consensus is here as well... Of course Rost will have his own ideas, but I'm also sure he'll have his reasons...

I am sold on the Dillon 223 Carbide die set. Yes they are spendy and the carbide die still requires a bit of spray lube but it simply outperforms my other 223 die sets. In addition, it came with taper crimp die. If by chance you get a progressive press in the future the dies are slightly beveled to aid in case allignment.

I'm pretty much with the crowd as noted. That after my guess to reloading AR ammo was that I've probably cranked just under half a million rounds out. Somewhere in the 400,000 round count.

RE taper crimp, thats for ammo meant for rounds that headspace in the chamber on the case mouth, not the datum line on the shoulder... So there is no reason to use it vs roll, but no reason not to either.

There are a few out there, that swear the lee factory crimp makes more accurarte ammo. I could go with that, IF each case is trimmed exactly the same each firing. But even with variable case length, a bushing sizing, will still net .5 moa accuracy for 10 shot groups at 300 yards most of the time. Which is good enough fro what I used to need.

Bottom line, about any die, no need for small base, load and go. If not filling the case fully, IE 90-100 percent powder density, you might consider crimping... From what I hear.

I just use redding 2 die regular set, no crimp etc. I have fired a few rounds and never had a problem with bullet set back. I got the lee factory crimp but don't use it as it also crimps the bullets.

Good info.

Jeff, do you use the expander plug or did you remove it (and use a bushing that sizes it down just enough)?

Thanks,
Clint

Any normal die set

No small base dies are necessary

Trim -.020 one time and never trim again if your not crimping

If you use the Lee crimp dont worry about ever trimming

I have a plain old set of Lee dies that has loaded 1000s of rounds.

Myself I wouldn't call it an AR-15 unless it's a Colt. Otherwise I leave it at AR or Modern Sporting Rifle around sensitive ears. I have no idea whether your own Ruger rifle has a .223 chamber or a 5.56 chamber. I have genuine Colt made and labeled AR-15 rifles with one each myself. Mostly doesn't matter in the least except when it does.

If you are loading your own once fired or bought new cases then you can't go wrong.

IMHO the best buy in a deluxe setup is a Forster deluxe set with the sizing die custom honed to your load - custom sized like a bushing die but no need to pay extra for the bushings. Then again you can't change bushings you don't have. Going that route a full length sizing die with a custom neck diameter will work every time and so will the handloads.

Anything else will work about as well.

Redding Type S without the micrometer head on the sizing die and the regular seating die (not the Competition) will work as well and the new micrometer seating stem from Redding or the optional micrometer seating stem with Hornady will all do the job about as well. I like the Redding Competition Series because it's easier, IMHO, to adjust on a progressive.

I have a set of Forster brand .223/5.56 headspace gages by thousandths to get an idea of actual chamber length beyond go/no go/field. Pacific Tool and Gage and other brands are likely better and worth the extra money but these are what I have. I use a Redding Competition Bushing die which neck sizes only. To that I add a Redding Instant Indicator to adjust a body die that bumps the shoulder. Add a Redding Competition Micrometer Seating die and that's good to go.

For range scrap or brass of unknown origin acquired by the bucket then I do run them all through a small base body die first thing. This assumes I don't know whether the brass needs it or not and it's quicker to run it all once around with a case feeder than it is to gage each case and ponder. I find a small base full length sizing die with an expander ball gives me a lot of brass to trim so I prefer a small base body die or bushing die with the bushing omitted followed eventually by sorting cases into lots for bushing sizes. I use a Forster drill press setup which costs less than a Gracy what have you deluxe trimmer when there are buckets of cases to trim. Anything but .223/5.56X45 and .308/7.62x51 I start with new cases. I like to have a lot of cases when I can afford them as I can with .223/5.56X45 so I will prep mixed cases with a small base die the first time out of the bucket then process as plinking cases separate from but same process as match/varmint cases.

No expander plug. The bushing works the brass less and centers on the neck so it doesn't move the neck and in theory produces more concentric ammo.

I"m still a nut though, I seat bullets (comp seaters, both forster and redding) half way, rotate about 180 and seat the rest of the way.

Reading backwards here I find a comment

If trimming lots of brass, Giraud trimmer is by far the way to go.

I have never had a Dillon trimmer though on any of my dillons so can't comment there.

Clark I have been using the lee trim device which indexes off of the flash hole with pretty consistent results. Do you find that trim length effects accuracy that much? What do you load for 77 grain Sierra's? I have been using TAC but thinking about loading some with RL15.

Giraud trimmer......rubber glove

Thanks! I have several sets of Redding comp dies, but none of the S bushing dies currently - wasn't sure how the runout might be on those by just using the appropriate bushing for neck tension with no plug. I'd prefer this for minimal working of the neck as you mentioned.

And guess I'm a nut too, as I will do the same seating practice with my Redding comp seaters.

Further observations - opinions only based on letting someone else do the research and believing them. I recommend especially the Precision Shooting Guide to Handloading and the tenth edition Sinclair guide. The first is aimed at over the course the second at short range benchrest. The prime lesson from the Precision Shooting book is don't do more than you have to for your purposes and it's the target not the micrometer head that measures the results. I bought a Harrell's 4 position turret because I liked the cover picture on another first rate but idiosyncratic how to book.

Based on reading only I don't use a Dillon case trimmer. They obviously add little or no extra effort but are reported to give off-square results. This may not matter with no crimp and less with a taper crimp than a roll crimp. Still I use a drill press for heavy trimming and a deluxe L.E. Wilson for precision. I don't need to trim all that much or all that often bulk brass excepted. Everything works well enough to satisfy somebody maybe you. I do gage with Redding Instant Indicators (bought a Redding 7 place turret just to leave them set up) L.E. Wilson gages, the RCBS plastic micrometers and the RCBS case gages. I use Starrett mikes and calipers too but that's an affectation from hanging around QA in Puget Sound. I couldn't buy points with money spent on tools and you can't either.

Folks who use a Redding Bushing Die with an expander are getting the inside case necks as round as possible - the bushing by definition indexes on the outside case necks.

I use an expander by itself on new brass. Otherwise I don't - but folks who turn necks, anneal regularly and shoot at extreme ranges find it useful. Variations in neck tension give vertical at longer ranges but I'm more inclined to select than to worry about bushing and expander diameters to just kiss the inside of the sized neck and I wouldn't be using bushings if I wanted to expand the neck all that much. Work hardness and spring back changes the brass dimensions before and after a trip around on the shell plate and doing it perfectly gets beyond me.

I have a fair amount of TAC and a fair amount of Reloader 15 and a fair amount of H4895 and a fair amount of Varget, not so much Ball C(2) or H335 or 748 left but some. I'm inclined to prioritize by using a newer powder first and stopping if it's good enough. I want the temperature insensitivity and copper fouling reduction that comes with newer powders. There are enough newish powders including the newish CFE and IMR that something newish will work and also be available from the usual suspects. Capitalism works; most are good enough.

That said there are some truly great performing .223/5.56x45 loads with IMR 3031 and I suppose other powders of that era. They work as well today as they ever did.

better solution for trimming lots of 5000 brass at a time?

I don't have a better one yet. Willing to learn, not that it matters anymore.

If brass is staying with the chamber it was fired in, then FL and neck sizing works fine.

If it's getting swapped around, get a SB die. Applies to bolt guns too.




Travis

have fired a LOT of pickup range brass over the years. M1A. Yes SB.

AR, no, I've never personally found any that would not work, and I don't have sloppy chambers.... thats a pitch if you didn't catch it...

See the thread: Neck sizing brass for an AR

Neck-sizing brass for an AR
#10213768 - 07/29/15 05:17 PM

under this same AR and Tactical Rifles heading

As often it seems to boil down to YMMV - but I suspect the firearms vary even more than the results.