Would not the 9mm Luger or 40SW be better choices for home defense? Now that we all have spent a fortune on 5.56 guns? What say you? Thanks...

Maybe if you were going to SBR and suppress.



Travis

300 AAC BLK in the AR for HD

Mine is a .300 Blackout as well.

Though a .45 ACP could be interesting, too, it's not easy to make in run in an AR.

isn't that more power than is needed?

No.



Travis

Take everything that you think you know, and just about everything that you have heard in regards to terminal ballistics, "power" and "over penetration" and throw it in the trash.


The short answer is this-

5.56 damages more tissue and penetrates less through residential walls than either 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, or any other duty round.

Even though it should not be the focus- If you miss inside of a building there is less risk to occupants on the other side when utilizing 5.56 vs. and standard pistol round. Combine that with the fact that 5.56 also damages more tissue than pistol rounds and there is no logical reason to choose a pistol caliber carbine for personal protection.

I think the 9mm would be lots of fun with a bump fire stock and a 50 round clip....

Like full auto, after about 1-2 mags, its boring. Just making noise and not hitting much.

At least to me. But thats the joy of life. My nephew could burn ammo all day as fast as you could supply and not hit a thing and still have a grin at the end of the day.

My choice btw... leave it 223

so the 5.56 is kind of concussive inside the house, the supersonic BO is no wear near as loud, I would build a 16 inch BO and shoot them 110 grain Barnes bullets out of it. I am sure that they Way Overpenetrate however and someone will be along to tell me so.

I'm contemplating doing a SBR on a Beretta Storm and adding a can.

I could see that being pretty sweet inside a building.



Travis

If I ever shoot inside a building.



Travis

I had a Colt 9mm AR and could not get it to work with a Slide Fire stock. I've seen videos of 9mm (and .22 LR) AR's spitting out mass quantities of ammo with a bump fire stock, but neither has worked for me. Maybe if you install a 3-lb trigger.

My 5.56 works fine with a Slide Fire stock and the factory trigger.

Unless your suppressing it or just have a bunch of 9mm, there is no reason to not go 5.56.

I just don't know how to use anything but an AR15 and a Glock all other skills have been lost. I am thinking about getting rid of my Benelli M1 12 guage shotguns as I cannot figure out how to shoot them anymore.

I have been saving 9mm brass for years awaiting the day I get a 9mm rifle in any configuration. When I do obtain such a firearm, I will crank up the 550 and load it all.

It's been a dream of mine for years.

I'll still use the 5.56 AR in the house.

Buy a KelTec Sub 2000 in 9mm that uses Glock 17 mags. And a Glock 33 round mag to boot.
They actually work unlike the Colt 9mm, and are half the price.

For some reason I've wanted the sub 2000. Have NO clue why.

Despite all the fuss, I'm fine with a 9mm CX4 in the house.

And outside.

All the cool kids are buying storms.




Travis

I shoot a lot of 9mm and 45 but in pistols where they belong. I had a Colt 9mm AR and it was a fun toy but not much more.

Now SBR it with a can and it could be a tool but still not as good as the 5.56

how about a Scorpion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=224&v=8XAYsYwZGxI

I wanted one too, until I had one.

The folding carbine idea is neat, but that's about as far as it went.

It was more of a toy than any kind of serious gun. Plastic sights that were too low for the eye, sewer pipe for a barrel, and the whole thing flexed like a noodle when it fired. I sold it when I realized I could shoot more accurately with my G20.

The CX4 Storm is plastic too, but far more sturdy and rigid, and in a whole different league than the Sub2k. They aren't perfect, especially the plastic trigger parts and Beretta's (lack of) customer service, but they are decent.

Thanks for the report. I missed the boat with the Ruger PC series, but still like the idea of a small pistol cartridge carbine.

I am saving my pennies up for when this is actually available:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/SIG-Sauer174-MPX-Semiautomatic-Tactical-Rifle-with-Side-Folding-Stock/2042623.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dmpx%26x%3D10%26y%3D6%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=mpx

Storms are UBER.





Dave

Fixed it for ya!

Haters gonna hate..

Storms are a fuggin' blast.

It may make an appearance in the AR Challenge thread.



Travis

Haters gonna hate..

Storms are a fuggin' blast.

I was real interested in pistol caliber carbines for a while, as a HD weapon. Looked at the Storm, but at the time mag selection was limited. I tried the Kel-tec Sub2000, and found like Yondering it had too many bugs in the design. Wound up with a .300 Blackout AR, which is sort of like a .30 M1 carbine on 'roids, and works well.

Dad had a Tommy Gun in WWII, and liked it, but they have some well known issues.

This guy is making a AR lower, that accepts Grease gun mags in .45 ACP:

http://cncguns.com/projects/AR45lower.html

Combined with a Oly Arms .45 cal upper, and the rest of the parts, you could have a pretty neat .45 ACP carbine, that accepts cheap high cap mags, and has modern ergos. The price isn't cheap, but...

I like the notion of a Tavor in 9x19 with the really neat looking suppressor that doubles as a forend and adds only a little to the overall length. Jerry Miculek does fine with it at longer ranges but I'd specify for home defense from the inside only for me.

Duly noted. It looks more than a little Stormtrooper-ish (coincidence?) and I never really embraced the Star Wars thing. But if it's a quality blaster I guess I'd better consider it.

Kid approved!

If shrapnel can like a gun that ugly, you know it works.




Travis

Touche'!

Thanks for the to-scale photo. My wife is petite, and my 4yr old son is quickly catching up.

Along with the styling, I was giving it demerits for wasting some sight radius, but an RDS would make that a wicked little machine.

Mine put three inside a can of dip @ 100yds yesterday. With the irons.




Travis

Damn, OK I'm now interested.

Shrapnel even liked the Eotech..

Red dots are hard not to love. But I typically hate them.

About an hour ago. After some slight adjustments, I think she's ready for rabbits.

I cannot hate a storm, 50 practice rounds for $15.00 and all that. I guess if it's 16 inch carbine barrel for both then you have too choose 5.56 or 9mm I kind of want to carry the bigger blaster. Love to have the storm as a fun gun however.

Nice.

My 9mm is better.

They are not comparable to an AR IMO.



Travis

Mmmmmm....no.

Looking forward to rabbit slaying though.




Travis

How bad is the trigger pull on your Storm for weight, creep and overall quality?

This thread has started my interest, and I found a pretty long write-up that mentioned a poor trigger, and replacement parts that helped. Necessary or no?

There's a hillbilly trigger job that lightens them right up.

Perfectly serviceable IMO.




Travis

Very interesting discussion
I have a pair of Colts wondered why LE didn't use them more in urban settings
Waiting for a can for them I think it will be Fonzie kool
Hank

It will be.

I've shot the 9mm Colts and they were flawless. Not sure why they have a bad rap.

Any .40 in a carbine that works is pretty UBER.



Travis

I love my PC-4 and think it's the schizzles for HD. The thing just works.

Yeah, I didn't see the light while the gettin' was easy. But the Storm is on my short list now.

I missed the boat on the PC-4 as well. My buddy had a couple so I was able to shoot them and they were great little carbines. The ghost ring version is full UBER.




Travis

There are just 2 things you have to know about a 9mm:

They work

The guy that gets shot with one won't say "I read that these things aren't lethal so you didn't hurt me"...

I'm a big fan of the 38-40 so I prefer the modern equivalent.




Travis

Did someone mention Beretta Storms? One of every reason...

Reduced lethality and increased issues with over penetration in an urban area with pistol caliber rounds in comparison to 5.56.

I do think I'd prefer a flattop with rail, minus the silly molded sight ears, however.

Still thinking about a .45 ACP, AR

I've not had my hands on a Storm yet but I picked up a JR Carbine some time back in 9mm and love it. They are ambidextrous, use glock mags and AR trigger components. For $300 I can get a 40 or 45 conversion kit for it. I got the 9mm mainly because it is cheaper to shoot but I think the 45 conversion would be a neat little thumper too.

The sights cause issues with mounting for sure.

But I can't think of a better route to go if you want a suppressed carbine with subsonics.



Travis

#1: If I shoot something with my 9mm CX4, it's going to die.

#2: If I'm shooting outside, I'd rather be sending 9mm's off toward's neighbors houses, than 5.56.

Or don't shoot towards neighbors houses.

Can't guarantee that.

I don't know how far away your neighbors live, but I'd rather roll the dice on frangible 5.56 than any version of a 9mm. An unobstructed miss in the air will fly a loooong ways with either caliber, but when factoring in ricochets and barrier penetration or shoot-throughs, the 5.56 has a better chance of breaking up prior to finding an unintended secondary target.

my closest is about 500 yards out. I don't like it one bit I have a neighbor that close, but it is what it is.

It doesn't matter what you shoot outside your house, you will lose everything you own if you shoot any perp that isn't in your house...

Who said anything about shooting people outside?

Why is that?

If you are outside and someone starts to shoot at you are you just suppose to take the shots? What if you had your Ar rifle? I suppose you are right. Shooting back will just make things escalate.

Not in Texas anyway...

Escalate? They shoot at me, I shoot them, done. Who is left to escalate.

You kill him, family sues you and wins; You wound him, he sues you and wins; You miss him, neighbors sue you and win.

You can't be that naive to know that. Internet tough guys rarely even get in a fist fight, let alone a shoutout...

not unless Montana is more liberal than Texas

If someone is outside your house posing a danger to you or another innocent person, you can most assuredly use deadly force. The test is did you behave in a reasonable manner, given the threat at hand.

some guy is dancing naked on your lawn with no weapons, no you probably can't shoot him. he's waving an axe, yelling that he's gonna chop down your door and kill you, you probably can.

You can certainly get sued for almost anything, but their odds of success go down, if they are an obvious threat.

me I would just call 911 and go cower in the basement....

Same exact results if you shoot him inside your house here in TX. We don't have to worry about in or out or dragging em back in, its all going to end up the same.

Tresspass with intent here, you are in the wrong, and we are ok, and for sure at night we are ok, in house or not, criminally at least. No one is protected in any case ever, civilly unfortunately.

STill can't see how OJ was found guilty civilly, after not being so criminally....

So I'm grilling in the front yard, guy pulls in driveway and starts throwing shots at me, I can't shoot back at him because he's not in the house?

Yea, that makes a WHOLE bunch of sense. I don't have neighbors to worry about either.


Yep, provincialism at its finest

My dad would shoot him, then flip the burgers...