Anyone have a 6.5 Grendel? I was thinking about getting another upper in 6.8 SPC again but the Grendel looks like a little more oomph. Any reccomendations?

Found a great deal on a LWRC Six8 SPR so went the 6.8 route

I have two 6.5's and love them. Built one with a Krieger barrel at 18". Built the other with a Black Hole barrel at 22". Both are tack drivers. We have shot a lot of deer with them. I also have a 6.8 too. I always grab the Grendel. So does my buddy. We love them.

The Grendel is about as good as it gets for a across the board cartridge on a AR15. Black Hole Weaponry has their .264 LBC/ 6.5 Grendel, 8 twist barrels dialed in.

Factory A-Max ammo at 200 yards with a BHW 16", 8 twist, rifle length gas barrel.



This is from a new BHW 18" SPR barrel, rounds 10-14 on a new barrel. Using handloads I have dialed in for another AR with a 26" BHW barrel. This was at 130 yards. The first shot was from a cold, freshly cleaned bore.



Another 7 shot group from the same 18" SPR BHW barrel.

I just got my first AR and been studying all the calibers for an upper that can extand the usefulness of the platform.

The 6.5 Grendel looks like the best of anything out there. Longer range and harder hitting for targets or hunting. (or zombies if that is your fear) Not from experience; but, just looking at the charts and reading the reviews. None of the negatives amount to hill of beans. it needs a special bolt, so buy the whole upper or get a matching barrel and bolt. You loose some magazine capacity, but it does use standard metal AR magazines. The blackout and 6.8 both use the smaller 223 case and IMHO the little extra capacity from the Russian case is desperately needed to extend the 223 with a larger bore.

I am also intrigued with the 458 socom, but; that is a whole different deal. That works, due to even larger capacity and if it ever really caught on the brsss would be good fodder for a bigger and better 6.5. Until then, the Grendel seems like the clear winner. It does take the 223 to the next level.

Have you all had any problems with broken bolts?

Never had a problem with a broken bolt with the 6.5 Grendel and that is after many, many rounds through many Grendel builds. The only issue I have had is wear on the upper receiver and bolt carrier from excessive bolt thrust. In other words "Over gassed". A long time ago I started using a adjustable gas block on all my Grendel builds and it was no longer a issue.

Without a adjustable gas block I have had a 6.5 Grendel carbine completely destroy a Enidine buffer in less than 100 rounds.

Good to know. An adjustable gas block will go on my upcoming 264 LBC re-barrel.

Good tip on the gas block. I assumed the builder of these uppers would have appropriate size holes or blocks. I guess not, just build and get the money.

I found one thread on another forum where the OP made a DIY adjustable gas block by drilling and tapping for 4x40 into a fixed block. There was some discussion of best way to lock it down. Loktite or jam screw or jam nut.

Obviously this is not mil spec, but; I would think some of these mega bucks builders would include this on thier AR uppers or complete guns. I hear this criticism for carbines and (again as a newbie) I am mystified why this problem would exist on any carbine? I mean at least get the sizing close to be optimized, just right, for the 556 . Better yet, adjustable to accommodate any 223/556 loads with just enough.

After further consideration I cancelled the 6.8 order and decided to go with the Grendel after all. Thanks for the info

The 6.8 does NOT use a 223 case. The 6.8 case has the same case capacity as the Grendel. This info direct from Hornady.
The info here from Hornady shows the 6.8 is apx 100fps faster than the Grendel.
Hornady ammo -6.8
Test Barrel (16") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2460/1612 2250/1349 2050/1120 1862/923 1685/756 1522/617

Hornady ammo Grendel-
Rifle (16" Barrel) Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2350/1508 2189/1308 2034/1129 1885/971 1744/831 1612/709

The though the 6.8 used the same bolt as 223. The 6.5 uses the same (larger face) bolt as 762 Russian. But I found this: "6.8 Spc is based on the 30 Remington" And both require different bolts.

The case capacity is very similar because the 6.5 has the shoulder moved back. I did not expect to get called out on that. The 6.8 is optimized more for lighter bullets. You have a good point on the capacity - and good fact checking all around.

I may have under estimated the 6.8

I appreciate the correction. Might go 6.5 my self but it maybe more a coin toss than what I understood.

The 6.8 has become a hunters round, Texas hog hunters love it. A lot more companies produce the 6.8 than the 6.5. The 6.8 has more hunting bullets in the proper weight range that were designed to expand at the velocities the 6.8 cartridge can reach. Where most of the 6.5 bullets were designed for the 260 Rem and the Grendel doesn't push them fast enough to expand the bullets out past 250-300yds. 1800fps is the apx expansion threshold for most of the bullets IIRC. When Jordan's and the Saudi's Presidential guard chose the 6.8 Federal got involved and developed the XM68 ammo loaded with 90gr Gold Dots. Gold Dots loaded for the price of FMJs at 10-$14 was a huge breakthrough toward decent affordable ammo good enough to hunt with.
3-4 years ago we sold a bunch of the 6.8s to a branch of the DEA and a company that had a contract with the Border patrol. We've sent a few to almost every agency for testing but the usual response is the budget prevents them from swapping calibers. Just 6 months ago another agency started testing a special purpose bullet and load with very specific performance requirements. It looks like they have already chose the 6.8 and are moving ahead with specific ammo.

I found some pictures





I think it might have been nice if both were done on the Russian case for sake of standardization and give the 6.8 more capacity. As it is seems they both give up something. I dont say it a big deal either way, just saying. Same for the blackout. That one is too late. I guess they are all too late and, are what they are.

The 7.62x39 has a bad reputation for braking bolts and not feeding well. The case diameter makes the web and lugs of the bolt weak. The taper of the case makes it tougher to make mags that feed well. There are a lot of people that will not use an AR that has that case diameter because of the bad rep. That is why the 5th group and the AMU did not use the 7.62x39 case when designing their new cartridge.

Would you go so far as to propose the 30 remington would be a better case for a family such as: 6mm, 277 and 308 rounds?

For use in the AR15 and using mil spec extensions, the bolts are stronger without a doubt. The 6.8 mags are wide enough that they do not pinch the 6.8/30 Rem case. There are several cats based on the 6.8 case. 5.56x42,6x41,SIX5, 6.8, 30 Herrett and a 358 when it is finished.
The shorter case of the 7.62x39/6.5G allows the use of longer bullets if the other obstacles can be improved upon. I don't think the issues are big enough to prevent it from being used as a hunting or target round but I don't think it is reliable enough for combat or duty use.
I designed and manufacture a bolt that is plenty strong enough but it requires a different extension. If some company were to machine a lower with a wider mag well like the LWRC SIX8 but designed for the 220 R/PPC case and then made mags specifically for that lower and case it would greatly benefit cartridges based on the 220R/PPC. IMO that should have been done on day 1 but, it takes money.

I agree on the point that the Grendel case is better suited for heavier bullets than the 6.8 case when it comes to some of the wildcat variants. Such as the 6x6.8 SPC and the .243 LBC. I own both and started with the 6x6.8 and ended up building a .243 LBC that worked out much better COAL wise and feeding heavies from a magazine. Such as the 105's, 107's and one of my Persenal favorites the 95gr Berger VLD.

7.62 Russian = 7.62x54R
7.62 Soviet = 7.62x39

I was in the same boat last year, but after seeing the grendel gets optima velocity with longer barrels i went with the 6.8 using a arp barrel. Im getting 2440 with factory 120 set out of a 12.5" barrel and 2680 using the federal xm6.8.
I have yet to reload for the 6.8 but many are getting up to 200 fps more velocity safely using the 120 sst then the factory ammo. Im fixing to build me a 16" 6.8 also. I dont shoot out past 300 yards so the 6.8 fits me perfectly.

What kind of velocity are you grendel guys getting with 120 grain bullets. At what bbl length.

What twist is everyone running?

1 in 8 is the standard and generally recommended. I have a 1 in 9 on a CZ-527 bolt action and I am getting by quit well.

The following links may help answer your question regarding velocity.

http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/65-grendel/

http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5-Grendel-123-gr-SST/

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

In general roughly 2400 to 2600fps in a 24 inch barrel and roughly a 28 fps loss for each inch of barrel loss from that 24" benchmark.

Example Hornady indicates 2580 fps from a 24inch barrel. same load from a 16 inch barrel is yeilding 2350 FPS. 2580 - 2350 = 230 fps diff / 230/8in diff in barrel length = 28.75 FPS per inch of barrel.

Different barrels, bullets and powders may vary some yet this should get you in the ball park