I looked at one of these today again, the X95 version. The gas piston system has not a single hint of chrome in it, unlike what you find in a decent AK where the piston and gas port are hard chromed, the trigger is poor, and rumors are you can buy a Mini 14 and get better accuracy. I guess they do look cool, they are shorter than a Mini 14 and are very tactical but then length of pull seems a lot longer than an AR15. You almost get sucked into them due to the coolness factor...but then reality asks who wants a $1800, 3MOA rifle with a non chromed gas system?
I have a nephew who works in a local gun store/indoor range that sells Tavors.
His take is pretty much the same as yours. Overpriced and not very accurate.
Maybe that's why we still see so many Israeli police and troops using M16 type rifles.
I was thinking about getting a bull pup stock for my 581 tactical, and call it the Travis. LOL. But the reviews on the stock, well they suck.
one of our firefighters is in love with Israel, a minister too, and bought a tavor. He is tickled with his expensive toy. And more expensive trigger replacement.
Yet he hasn't a clue how well my ARs shoot and truth be told, the more I find out how poorly many shoot, a 3 moa gun and a sub moa gun might have the same resutls for most.
To add, if I had 1800 to spend and got an AR put together that didnt shoot under .5 and more likely closer to .25 moa at 100 for sure, I'd be pissed.
one of our firefighters is in love with Israel, a minister too, and bought a tavor. He is tickled with his expensive toy. And more expensive trigger replacement.
Funny you should say that.
My nephew said that most of those who buy them know little about firearms, and are of the Hebrew persuasion.
I guess it's a patriotic thing with them to support Zion.
I can think of a lot of other rifles I'd want to spend that $1800 on.
it's a Steyr AUG minus a good trigger, reliability, accuracy.
one of our firefighters is in love with Israel, a minister too, and bought a tavor. He is tickled with his expensive toy. And more expensive trigger replacement.
Funny you should say that.
My nephew said that most of those who buy them no little about firearms, and are of the Hebrew persuasion.
I guess it's a patriotic thing with them to support Zion.
And if they want to, thats cool and much better than supporting isis
here is the thing, Keltec makes about the same thing for less money. IN this case Keltec is probably just as good.
Keltec makes a fold up one... IIRC. As long as it functioned, I don't think the trigger or accuracy would be any worse really...
Priced to high? Yes, way to much.
But I know I am in the minority here when it comes to bull pups. I know they are not precision weapons with stellar triggers and sub moa capabilities. If they go bang every time, and have adequate accuracy to make a hit on man sized target out to 300 yard or so, what more can you ask for.
I admit i have only handled them and not shot them. But the idea of having a rifle that can take advantage of its full ballistics from a compact design is appealing to me. Israel knows what they need, and works best for them by being in under constant threat of attack. House to house, room to room, in and out of APCs and trucks.....
I do not disagree on bullpups for certain applications, however I am not sure the Tavor is all that.
Most everyone who has ever used a bull pup of any kind have gone back to a conventional design.
Shot a suppressed one, not impressed at all. First off, they're NO FUN with a suppressor, always get gas blow back in your face. As for the rest of it, it's fairly well designed technically, but its just another bullpup...and bullpup's suck.
KM has an all aluminum 17S bull pup, so looks like 4 BP's on the market now including the styer, some must like them.....
"Keltec-Bullpup" well that right there vindicates P.T. Barnum.
Here's another one from him, suppressed.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lslFaCvv8TU&itct=CBoQpDAYASITCOrC28Tqic4CFVU4vgodoiIGjjIGcmVsbWZ1SLfIzcSMkKmCCA%3D%3D
Doesn't look very southpaw friendly.
It's probably not bad but overpriced by $800 for sure
Doesn't look very southpaw friendly.
It's 100% ambidextrous, you have to buy the optional left-hand bolt (more money), or you can buy it from the factory left-handed, I'm not 100% sure about that.
I had a Tavor and got rid of it. Shooting suppressed my face was black from blow back, the trigger SUCKED!!! I didn't think the ergonomics were all that great either. I'm got drawn in by the coolness factor but soon learned that just because it's cool doesn't mean its useful.
I can see it for a short range military rifle but I'm not going to ever use it or any of my other guns in war, and neither ar 99.999999999999999999 percent of us. And even at that if I got issued a rifle with a trigger that bad I'd be pissed.
So I am going off on a tangent a bit. What was wrong with The Aug, and other 5.56 rifles like HK 93, the FN and others? And a host of others from the 80's-90s.
I liked my AUG, Unfortunately I sold it,offered to much money,I could not refuse. I kick myself in the butt for getting rid of it. I was fortunate enough to shoot one fully automatic numerous times. Semi with five round burst,expensive. HK 93 fantastic but heavy for its size.never owned one but had a couple of friends who did, I loved to shoot that little Rifle. They command some big dollars today.
That surely is a catchy thread title.
So I am going off on a tangent a bit. What was wrong with The Aug, and other 5.56 rifles like HK 93, the FN and others? And a host of others from the 80's-90s.
I had an AUG (new production from a couple years ago) and have used a couple different FS2000 a bit. The AUG was relatively accurate (~1.5-2 moa) with M855, and probably the best of the lot IMO, but still had it's downfalls. The trigger was pretty bad (as with most bullpups), and the gun was fairly heavy for it's size. It did feel nice in the hands and shot well.
The FS2000 has the same downsides as the AUG, but is less accurate, and feels like holding a 4x8 post. They are just bulky and chubby feeling, IMO.
Both of those rifles are way overpriced, IMO, for what they are; if they were US made in mass production they could be 1/4 the cost we have to pay now. I sold my AUG for $1800 IIRC, put that money into AR15s, and have been much happier. I'd buy another AUG for $600-$800, but they aren't worth any more than that to me.
That surely is a catchy thread title.
I really have nothing against either gun and would take either if given to me for free! OTOH giving someone $1800 of my dollars would have to buy more than what is offered. The AUG does not sound too bad.
Sometimes I think the Call of Duty crowd latches onto this kind of stuff..come on non chromed piston and gas port A La Mini14..wonder if the issued weapon is better.
So I am going off on a tangent a bit. What was wrong with The Aug, and other 5.56 rifles like HK 93, the FN and others? And a host of others from the 80's-90s.
The AUG soldiers on and has been upgraded. I wanna say the Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland (and Austria of course)use it as their service weapon and are generally pretty happy with it.
The H&K G33 is reliable, but it's a heavy, unweildy and not real great for adapting to the modern things you want on an assault rifle...it would quickly become a boat anchor. The G33 was really kind of a stop gap rifle, it was just making a G3 into a 5.56 and it was never ideal.
The FNC is a great rifle and has served the Belgians well, but it too is a bit on the heavy side and not the best for adding accessories and modernization. The Belgians will be dumping the FNC and replacing it with the SCAR in the near future.