I'm exploring options for a short range deer and hog gun. My original thought was a 20" barreled bolt gun in 358 Win. but I stumbled across a thread about the bushmaster on another forum.

I have a Colt AR15 with a nice trigger to start from. I want a light weight and short brush gun. Just wondering what kind of weight I would have with a 450 Bushmaster upper in an AR VS a bolt gun done light in 358 win.


If it's a good idea what upper would you suggest strictly for hunting hogs and deer at 100 yards or less? Is the 450 Bushmaster the best option or maybe something different. Hoping you guys can give me the rundown on these type AR options.

I've always liked the .458 SOCOM out of the 3 big bore AR choices. But for practicality, I'd go 6.8 SPC II. It's much better balanced and gives you more options should you want to shoot past 100.

With that said, I have a hankering for a .358. I know I'm going to end up with one. I just can't decide if I want a bolt or Savage 99.

American Rifleman did a write up on big bore Ars recently.

Thanks for the input but I can't see a 6.8 replacing the craving for the big bore thumping power of the 358 win.That's the only reason I was considering one of the 458 AR calibers. An upper would possibly be a quick and easy to scratch the itch.

I have a .458 SOCOM.

I use the same bullets as I do with my .45-70 and the same powder/primers as my .44 mag.

You do not have to have special mags for the SOCOM, but it is advised not to use Magpul mags with bullets that require longer OAL, but it can be done with modification, and no mod is needed for the 300 grain HPs I use at 2.033" oal.

I've not pursued it yet, but I am reasonably sure that nearly 1600 fps is doable with a 405 grain bullet. If so, an LBT 405 at 1500 to 1550 would be something to contend with at short(er) range.

well Mr. Clark many of us are struck from time to time with Gunitus. I would just buy the one you want, reload for it and have a ball. I have a 6.8SPC, does it kill any better than a 223? does a 308 kill better, does a 300WM, does a 358...sometimes its only in our minds but this is what we do and what we enjoy doing! Have at it!

Agreed, 6.8 won't scratch the big bore itch. Tromix has a 375 SOCOM now as well. I'd look to him for a upper and be done. Just do your research of you end up SOCOM. About half the manufactures use the reverse engineered reamer and have had issues reported with factory ammo.

Or, you could scratch both itches and get s 358 win AR-10.

That's exactly it Jimmy. I have plenty of deer and hog guns. I just don't have anything larger than a 7mm mag. Don't need one but want something that throws heavy bullets for some insane reason. I also like light and fast handling so the recoil combination may wind up sending it down the road just as fast as I dreamed it up.LOL

And it may well be the best balanced cartridge from the .458 case.

I bought a Bushmaster rifle in 450 when they first came out around 2007, mounted a NF 2.5-10x24 compact scope on it in a Armalite QD mount.

Got a hold of 4 or 5 hundred 245 gr Barnes copper bthp bullets and built a load with WW-296 powder, IIRC they chrono a bit over 2400 fps, have never recovered a bullet from deer or pigs, it puts the smackdown on game of this size within it's range capabilities.

NH-K9 used it on a Tennessee pig hunt to pole-ax a nice hog, I believe it was one shot one kill too with no bullet recovered.

I love mine, it does home defense duty when not in the woods, it's in the back with three 30 round converted AR mags bracketed together, each mag holds about 12 rounds of the 450B.

I used to shoot those 50 caliber power belt bullets from a black powder gun, in all my years of using them they gave me the impression of No Run even when I lunged a buck with them. Now I have had lunged/heart shot bucks that run with all sorts of high power rifle bullet shots, they never go beyond 100 yards or so, but run they did and do, those 50 caliber power belt bullets made them so they did not run, one I recall just fell over sideways

Do they make a 500AR?? That and a .50 cal Hornady Vmax??

The 450 uses .452 bullets, while the .458 Socom uses .458's - and you can find a somewhat wider variety of bullets in .458. Barnes makes a 300gr TTSX that is fairly steamlined, and of course the many .45-70 bullets will work too, if you can get them to feed.

There is, if course, always the .50 'Wuff

LOL, I've blown fist sized holes in deer with 7STW's, 300 Mags and such, and yes, they bolt, I have to believe the high speed bullet impact must spool up the nervous system, they have such an adrenaline dump they bolt.

Have shot all sorts of game with slow Sharps rifles and have had several boom flops, or boom slow walk trot to a fall, I guess a calmer more polite kill if you will? I don't know.

Don't know about any 50 cal AR's save the Beauwolf? cartridge.

.50 Beowulf

.458 SOCOM

I've shot quite a bit wiht the 50 beowulf. Not a single dropped on the spot. No biggie though.

And for the comments of a socom being a 100 yard cartridge, I've shot things out to 280ish with the 50... you just have to know what you are doing, thats general for life though.

I'd not go the 50 at this point, I'd lean to the 458 socom myself due to bullet choices... but I'm not trading in since I have what I have.

whose barrel and bolt did you use in yours? I assume a std. upper receiver and bolt carrier?

Is your 50B a .500 or .510" round Rost? and do they make a copper Barnes for it?

Those Barnes' at 2400 in my 450B really do a bang up job for some unknown reason, everyone knows .451" and only 245 grs isn't going to break any sec den records, and neither is 2400 fps.

I absolutely LOVE the 450 Bushmaster.

Hornady nailed it as far as "the" bullet goes. The 250 FTX is absolutely perfect for just about everything. And then you have the Barnes 275 gr. Look no further, cuz there is no need.

I will post a pic or 2 in a while......

Oh forgot to add, you do NOT need "special" magazines unless you like paying for them. Simply buy a follower or 3 for $10-11 each, You can put a 450 follower right over top of a 223 follower and turn a 30 round magazine into a 11 round 450 magazine for $11. OR you can pay 3 times that for a "special magazine".

I have my 450 set up to run 250s to 500 yards Once I get it tweaked in will get a CDS custom dial....

Ya, the blue follower will convert most metal 20/30 round AR mags to 450B just fine.

Yes I have had no trouble with them.

Took the 450 out a few weeks ago. Will hunt with it this year.......

How are the collapse able stocks holding up to the recoil? I couldn't get past that mentally, so what's real world application proven?

Initially only fired the Hornady bullet for the brass in the early days, 450B brass was unobtanum early on, never used it on game, how does that rubber tipped Hornady perform on deer/pigs?

Well, I have only used it on one deer and it worked great. Have only had gun not quite a year so far. Just now got it how I want it.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it on anything this side of a big bear. For that, I would feel better with the Barnes 275 grain, which is what some bush pilots/guides are using I guess.

This is what it looked like new when I got it....

It is a Tromix upper and BCG.

It is the bottom rifle, and it has evolved a little since that pic was taken. Minor changes. Troy fixed sights and a Magpul grip.

Alexander arms barrel, IE Walther. Not the best in teh world. A bit more than MOA but its ok enough i guess.

Not sure on the bore size, but I shoot 275 Barnes X flying ashtrays in the 16 inch tube. If I carry it in AK I run a bigger bullet, and sometimes not even barnes, something more along the lines of FMJ type, forget which one on that as I have not taken it there in a while.

I expect performance wise there isn't any difference at all between the 450/458 and the 50. Don't see how there could be.

have i got a deal for you. fast handling and light weight! check out my 95 marlin in the classifieds. 45-70 guide gun.
i have , with this particular gun, taken 3 white tail, 1 moose, 2 elk and one skunk! you really don't want to shoot a skunk in the garage with a 45-70!
not a AR but very accurate.
reason i am selling it apart from having 2 more like it is i have the 458 socom and am going to blood it in a few weeks, and it (the marlin doesn't smell skunky).

I agree. There's probably not any practical field performance differences.

The only reason I chose .458 SOCOM was that I had everything but cases, owing both a .45-70 and .44 mag, so powder, primer, and bullets were already in stock.

DPMS lower/BM upper.......

its too bad someone can't come up with some great other AR specific rounds with one those 2 large cases. a full line of .22, 24, 25, 28 calibers on either the socom or bushy case.

It's a .500. Barnes also makes the 325 and 375 grains. I've loaded them all and they shoot well. I've gone to using 1680 for all the Barnes bullets and also the 300 grain Gold Dot and 334 Rainer.

FWIW, we sell a lot more .458's than we do .450's....at a ratio of about ten to one. And almost all of the .450's are sold to guys in Michigan that are only buying them because they can use a straight walled case for shooting deer in the shotgun zone, and can't use the .458.

The .375 SOCOM keeps gaining momentum for us and will likely outsell the .450BM by the end of they year. Compared to the big three, the .375 SOCOM has some legs on it, easily getting out to 250 yards or so with plenty of wallop to back it up.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

Are you starting to see any more support on the factory ammo side with the .375 Socom? Do you know if Barnes will be offering an application specific TTSX?

10-4 Men, that old bonded 325 gr Speer hp bullet would be a fine sd/entry/hunting bullet too, used to smash the hell out of deer and pigs with it saboted in an old 54 cal MK-85 inline over 120 grs P pyrodex, don't remember the velocity, but it held together and penetrated fully.

The 375 SOCOM sounds like a hell of a lot of bang for the buck Tony.

Laffin'. C'mon now, Tony. Of course you do. And you push the 458 at a greater than 10-1 ratio also.

That's almost like BMFI coming on here and saying they sell more 450s than 458s.........

I've got 30-40 of those loaded, too. They shoot well but are difficult to locate, though I've only sporadically looked. I'm pretty well stocked on components and will be making them into rounds shortly.

Sounds like a good deal, I always wondered if they'd feed in an AR style 50 cal rifle.

I may have a few out in the shop, you want em I'll send em to you.

I ran the 200gr ftx 338ME and deer ran a helluva long ways. Might be ok for shoulder shots but in the lungs they ran far.