Last year I shot a big doe at almost point blank range from a tripod stand I was hunting. The bullet hit a bit low in her shoulder necessitating a second shot. I have a VX6 1-6x24 on the 6.8SPC and I am considering taking it out of the LT-104 and putting it in these mounts. The gun does not have a front sight base nor flip up sights, it is a pure hunting rifle. Is there any draw back to these mounts? Has anyone used ultra-low scope mounts and found any problems using them regards real life getting an image in the scope and shooting?

http://www.larue.com/larue-tactical-ultra-low-mount-rings-qd

Are you going to be able to get your face down low enough on the stock? That is the critical component. The guys mounting scopes for Highpower service rifle are using mounts that put the centerline of the scope about 1.3" above the top of the rail. That's where mine are as well. I wouldn't be able to use those mounts at .875" above the rail. Never get my eye behind the scope.

ditto what gzig5 said.

I don't know! Hope someone on here has used them.

I tried warne highs, and it was torture trying to get my head low enough to see through the scope. I think those ultra lows would be a total non-starter.

Aim a little higher for up close shots.

See how much money I saved you?

A training issue, not a mechanical issue... 100 yard zero and put more rounds down range.

I saw a famous gun writer try an AR once in a gun rag and his scope was mounted as low as possible. He had a terrible time getting behind the scope, they just weren't his cup of tea.

are you blaming the current mounting setup for hitting low? I think you would hate to have a scope mounted that low, an AR is totally different when it comes to optics height than most bolt guns. most people prefer about 1.5" top of pic rail to optic center line. I personally prefer a tad higher at 1.7" ish

Being very familiar with Larue, those rings were designed to use with a 3/4" or 1" riser on an AR then be able to take off & put on a picatiney rail on a bolt gun. Keep notes on scope settings & you can use on several rifles & be good with zero. I can only afford one $2500.00 scope now so I use it on a .204 24" varmint AR with a 3/4" riser & Warne medium QD rings then switch it to my HS Precision 220 Swift bolt action with a Talley rail.
Jim D

With std height AR mounts you're only ~2" low at 10yds, ~1" low at 20yds, and about dead nuts at 50 when zeroed at 200 with the 6.8. You kinda need to ask yourself if that's really a problem?

I shot a buck in the base of the neck at 20yds weekend before last and pretty much hit right where I aimed.

I wouldn't sweat it as the point blank shots are a rarity in the real world.

No I just go back and forth between a couple of bolt guns using talley LW low mounts and a couple of ARs using the LT-104. The deer do wind up dead, it's just a simple excercise in looking to maintain consistency across the guns I use.

Point taken however thanks for the all the feed back and I guess low mounts won't work well.

extra high rings have always worked for me, needs a lot of cheek pressure genearlly for me but not enough to worry about.

Strictly hunting guns.

Position guns I want a riser and move it forward.


And yes, practice some helps too as is.... if you think you had a problem, try a suppressed 300/221 out to 200 some time... I have to have zeros ever 25 yards to 150 and more often past that to get to 200.. takes knobs and a rangefinder...

You will get the same results on irons or optics on any gun up close... the barrel is below the sights... I just glance and realize I'm going to be an inch or two inches low or whatever on snakes and aim to consider that.

I prefer the AR mounts to be able to cheek weld. Ive tried highs and Xhigh weaver style rings and couldnt shoot them.

From research the LT-104 has the reticle 2.7 inches above the bore, I am thinking about 1 inch higher than a std bolt gun reticle.

Did I mention 100 meter zero?

Yes you did!

Many of the AR shooters use Picatinny raisers 5/8th or so, just so they can use normal rings.

Bushmaster has some cheapo ones that aren't bad, or you can go head first and get a Larue LT-101 to LT-104 type...

Mount yourself a Mini Vortex Venom or Burris Fast Fire Red Dot next to your scope for the really close shots

Probably so, but what I would look at is the distance from the top of the stock not the bore. This would make a better comparison in terms of fit, maintaining proper cheekweld, etc.

The problem is the offset of the shot up close not the fit or cheek weld.

A bolt gun with a 1.5" above bore scope will shoot 1.5" low at 5 yards. The AR will shoot another inch lower due to a higher mounted scope.

Hand a guy an AR sighted in at 50 yards and let him shoot targets from 50 yards out to 300 yards and then throw one in at 10 yards under time and he'll more than likely shoot low. All this thinking of 1.7" high at 100 yards, dead on at 50/200, 4" low at 300 gets confusing under stress.

Sight one in at 100 meters and all he has to think of is aim high.

Yes my 6.8 is sighted in at 100 yards, was just wondering if there was a simple solution. I need a crossbow scope on an AR-15.

I understand that, but if you can't see through the scope it doesn't matter much how high above the bore that it is.

today shot under an armadillo when the wires were on his back at 10 feet, bullet grazed his lower quarters. I guess it is working fine

Your 104 is designed for the m4 platform @ 1.5-inch above rail. Difference between that, and the ultra low @ .875-inch, is 5/8th of an inch. At almost point blank range, if you centered the scope over the vitals of a big doe, I do not believe the LT104 would have the bullet leave the muzzle low enough so that you'd miss the vitals. If operator error results in a shot that misses the vitals low at almost point blank range, 5/8th of an inch from the ultra lows would be of little help.

We can argue the differences in USMC/Tactical zeros for making CQB CNS brain shots. But, hitting or missing the ginormous vitals of a big doe at almost point blank range, even at tripod angles, has little to do with your base zero techniques being 25, 50, 100, or 200. Think about your angles, visualize the vitals, and shoot for exits.

You may be right, I just seem to do better with a bolt gun and talley mediums these days. I am sure that I don't shoot enough drills close up, I shoot mostly at 50 100 yards, then crap always happens under my feet.

Yup. Same for that armadillo; the sight offset just isn't that much, unless it's a tiny baby armadillo. Sounds like shooter error, not a gun problem.

I don't agree it's totally shooter error, it sucks to have the bullet 3 inches low out of the barrel in my opinion. My ruler says 2.75 inches above bore to center of reticle. It is possible to hit a Dillo low when holding the cross wires on his back.

Gary I mostly shoot shoulders about 3-4 inches below the spine.

But again nothing is perfect, and the AR guns do a good job for most applications. My comments are academic only.

May buy a Browning BAR or another Benelli R1

Best advice I could give:

Do not look at the deer, and the shot presentation, in the terms of two dimensional, with the vital area on the visible outside of the deer, like a deer target. Think of the chest cavity like a basketball. A perfect shot through the interior dead center, could enter and exit at any point on the entire surface, depending on which way the ball is turned.

The best way to visualize the interior dead center of the three dimensional vitals, is the technique of shooting for the exit. When doing this, even if you don't account for the 2.75-inch gap between your scope center and bore at muzzle, that gap at the muzzle is not large enough to miss the vitals.

Think about it. If you could have frozen that large doe in place, climbed down from the tripod, and held the muzzle against the deer at the same angle, using the scope to line up with the interior dead center of the vitals, the bullet out the muzzle would still go through the vitals and kill the deer dead. Every foot you back away, that 2.75-inch gap will reduce. That tiny gap is not big enough to miss such a large object inside a big doe.

I believe you aimed for the entrance, not taking into account the angle and the exit. And just like scoring rings on a 3-D target, you can hit the outer 10-point scoring ring, but in reality, depending on shot angle, that could be a horrible shot on a real deer when the shot must pass through the deer to strike vitals. Visualize and aim for exit.

There was a guy who had problems with that at a rifle class I attended recently; he earned the nickname "Offset". Sounds like you're working to earn that too. It's common to forget the offset if you don't shoot very often at close range, but don't blame the gear for it.

It really is a software problem, not a hardware problem. If you know about the offset, you can learn to work around it. With most AR15 mounts, your sight height/offset should be ~2.65". Now you know.

While I try and shoot at least once a week, it's hard to accept the judgement of someone who has never seen me shoot based solely on an argument and discussion about lowering a scope to be closer to the bore line, thank you all for the feedback. Ideally they would be closer in my opinion just sayin is all.

The trouble with the internet is that people get worked up when someone questions the common rational. Yes I admit when 3 deer flew up under my stand I shot low and made a mistake a year ago, but I killed and ate the deer anyway. Forgive me for asking and bringing up a discussion topic here. It is apparent that no one thinks the low scope mounts are a good idea. Just so that we are clear I am not an operator nor pretend to be one on the internet, but I am often not on the couch and often in the woods or at the range with a rifle or pistol in my hands.

I shot this one the Saturday after thanksgiving at about 80 yards walking, no offset was required and I kind of know where to shoot a deer after having done it a couple of times. again thanks for all the feedback on the low scope mounts.

I use low rings on all my bolt guns and clearly understand the concept. It's just that an AR is not a bolt gun and getting my jug head down low enough to see through the scope with low rings on an AR isn't possible so I live with the 2.7" center over bore and work with it.

I don't see the need for offset sights like in 3 gun when I can learn to aim high and as I stated, the 100 meter zero reinforces the concept because you aim high, aim on and aim high again. Forget all the nonsense of aim high, aim on, aim low then aim high again. But I'm not sure if the 6.8 trajectory will work like the 5.56 will.

I think it's a good topic and may get a few people to thinking then maybe shooting.

Our local 3-gun club held a stage designed to teach this. They had several targets set at range (200-300 yds.) followed by mini-clay targets set at about 5 yards. It was a real opener.