Sounds great, likely be very expensive (upper & brass) until it becomes mass marketed & readily available through other sources.
MM
What ya wanna do with a 22 cal round in an AR? That will answer if there is anything to it.
They just build new rounds every year to try to keep selling.
Honestly as much as we've shot our 223s there isn't much a standard 223 can't do for me than I need.
So the standard 223 only gets 3050 fps with a 55 gr bullet...
3350 fps is now 22-250 velocity...
Only need a slightly longer magazine such as the 6.8 spc...
Ain't marketing wonderful?
First off, an 18" barrel is used to get the 3350 fps, a 20" barrelled 5.56 with M193 will get 3275 fps routinely. My 22" 223AI Montana gets 3600 fps with a 55 gr bullet.
Never seen a 22-250 get less than 3600 fps, granted a 24" barrel with a 55 gr bullet.
The 6.8 magazine doesn't have the spine in the middle which makes more difference than the slightly longer OAL.
I thrilled for the effort but I think it's nothing more than marketing. Am I wrong?
I applaud their innovation for that is what keeps our hobby from going dormant. I hope they sell a bunch, and the cartridge merges into the mainstream. That said, the standard .223 does everything I expect out of an AR. I won't be running out and buying a .22 Nosler. On the other hand, if I had just now fallen off the turnip truck and owned zero rifles, components, handloading tools, etc., I would take a serious look at this one.
I find this statement interesting, and it's a shame it's only mentioned in passing: "Also in 22 Nosler is a 77-gr. Custom Competition bullet at 2950 fps."
I will wait to see full details before I pass judgment, but if Nosler has come up with a cartridge with a little more 'oomph' than the .223, and specifically designed it to propel long/sleek bullets from the tight confines of an AR magazine, I'd buy/build one.
From the side-by-side comparison picture at the link, though, it looks like the case length is the same as the .223 Rem. While that might work well enough with Nosler's 77-grain bullet (.340 BC), it doesn't look to offer better logistics for higher-BC bullets like Hornady's 75gr ELD (.467 BC).
More speed is good, but maybe an 1/8" shorter case length would have offered up even more advantages for use in the AR mag?
Won't seating ultra low BC bullets in this case at mag compatible COALs cut deeply into case capacity?
I believe the case length and head diameter are approximately the same as 223, but the body diameter is larger.
The 77 grain Custom Competition bullets are the same as the SMK's and do fit in a standard 223 at mag length. I ran them at 2750 or closer to 2800 fps in my 18" SPR.
The 223 WSSM can load the 75 Amax if that's what you"re looking for.
I guess I'm just disappointed cause someone was talking the other day that Nosler had a case design from Weatherby with their improved case design.
We've already got he 22 DTI, 22 PDK, 22-6.8 or any other name you want to call it.
Looks like that necked down to .204 would be the cats Az in dog town. I have been pondering a 20 practical. That nosler case looks like it would run with the .204 and fit better in an ar mag.
I also always wanted for a AR 10 in 22-250 for gophers and prairie dogs ect. So maybe the 22 nosler deserves a look in a Ar 15 platform.
I always hate getting new guns. Lol
think 6mm Hagar necked down , should be a nice round
I also always wanted for a AR 10 in 22-250 for gophers and prairie dogs ect. So maybe the 22 nosler deserves a look in a Ar 15 platform.
I always hate getting new guns. Lol
I've considered the 22/6.8 SPC wildcats (that's what the 22 Nosler is) for the same reason. Some variations are better suited to heavy bullets than others though. With the extra case capacity, I'd want it set up to use the 75gr A-Max.
It can be done on the Grendel case too, which is a little shorter but wider so it could handle long bullets better without sacrificing capacity. If they are rebating rims anyway, that seems like a better choice, IMO.
Grendel and 6.8 are rebated rims?
Gains 300 fps over a .223. Odds are the uppers will come with PacNor/Noveske barrels, and they will shoot well.
How fast will someone neck it up to .30 caliber and say it's an improvement on the .300 AAC Blackout?
I got really excited about this, but was quickly disappointed. nearly all 223 loads are loaded on the anemic side. my full house 8208 loads look to be within 100 fps of what this new case does. thats not enough for me to give up el cheapo brass and the other ease of using a 223. its too bad I was really hoping for something. IMO a useful step up would be something that has a case compacity similar to the BR case.
Grendel and 6.8 are rebated rims?
No, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The 22 Nosler is a 6.8 case, but with a rebated rim. (Not an entirely smart choice on Nosler's part IMO, to create a proprietary case off of a common one.)
How fast will someone neck it up to .30 caliber and say it's an improvement on the .300 AAC Blackout?
That's been around for at least 10 years now, just without the rebated rim. There are a number of wildcats using the 6.8 SPC case necked to 30 cal, using 30 Herrett dies. (30 Herrett was formed from 30/30; 6.8 came from the old 30 Remington, which was a rimless 30/30.)
These are definitely more powerful than a 300 Blackout, obviously, with much larger case capacity. I made my own version that is in between the 30/30 and 308 in power, somewhat similar to 300 Savage but in an AR15. I'll post pics sometime if anyone is interested.
22 Nosler loaded to same pressures as 223 SAAMI specs (55,000psi) from a 18" tube
Cartridge : .22 Nosler
Bullet : .224, 55, Nosler BalTip 39526
Useable Case Capaci: 31.170 grain H2O = 2.024 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
7 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant AR-Comp 100.8 28.0 1.82 3287 100.0 55000 11030 0.816 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 97.0 30.0 1.94 3268 95.9 55000 11862 0.817 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 98.9 31.7 2.05 3262 93.4 55000 12055 0.816 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 99.5 31.2 2.02 3252 94.6 55000 11969 0.825 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 97.6 27.2 1.76 3239 98.4 55000 11232 0.817 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 101.1 29.1 1.88 3236 93.9 55000 11772 0.827 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 92.0 28.9 1.87 3229 97.5 55000 11370 0.823 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL10x 95.0 25.8 1.67 3216 99.9 55000 10760 0.832 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 103.0 29.6 1.92 3213 92.5 52656 11933 0.842
IMR 3031 103.0 27.7 1.79 3212 98.3 50220 11605 0.851
IMR 8208xbr 99.4 28.6 1.85 3204 94.8 55000 11264 0.824 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 103.0 31.5 2.04 3192 91.5 52020 11735 0.837
IMR 4198 94.0 24.2 1.57 3184 100.0 55000 10006 0.813 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15 103.0 29.6 1.92 3170 91.2 51501 11643 0.851
Ramshot X-Terminator 96.0 29.5 1.91 3167 92.9 55000 11027 0.829 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 98.4 30.5 1.98 3165 89.3 55000 11177 0.828 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 97.9 27.7 1.79 3164 95.7 55000 10768 0.826 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL7 88.8 24.7 1.60 3161 100.0 55000 10075 0.832 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 90.6 24.4 1.58 3147 98.2 55000 10125 0.816 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 103.0 29.1 1.89 3100 90.6 49143 11008 0.856
Hodgdon H380 103.0 30.2 1.96 3093 88.2 49281 11229 0.873
Hodgdon Varget 103.0 28.6 1.86 3066 89.9 48776 10779 0.865
Interesting info; how about running it with a 77 gr bullet as well.
MM
22 Nosler loaded to same pressures as 223 SAAMI specs (55,000psi) from a 18" tube
That would be a lot more useful if you'd post an identical comparison for 5.56. Otherwise, we're not comparing apples to apples.
Very interesting cartridge, particularly with the higher BC bullets
good on Nosler
I remember years ago running TZZ/IMI 55 ball over the chrono in 20 inch tubes and seeing 3300 and just over more or less as my memory goes.. they did seem like awful hot rounds, they were 5.56 and fired in a 223 chamber.. oh the horrors...
That's the first rule of marketing, compare an anemic 223 load to a hot wildcat.it always sounds better that way.
That's the first rule of marketing, compare an anemic 223 load to a hot wildcat.it always sounds better that way.
Dang guys.
Lets make it simple: If you compare a small capacity cartridge and a larger capacity cartridge with the same bullets at the same pressure in the same barrels, which do you think will go faster?
It's not rocket science or magic, and the headstamp means nothing.
So should we neck down the 30-06 to 22 caliber?
Of course the larger case is gonna win given like pressures but the Nosler marketing says 3350 is 22-250 velocity. Drive pressures up to 62000 in the 223 and the magical 300 fps isn't quite there anymore with the 22 Nosler.
This is basically the 22-6.8 with rebated rim is it not? If so, I've seen what the 22DTI can do and Mike is spot on in his maximum loads if you want to use the case again. Case life is short when you step on the gas.
Why no one wants to legitimize the 223AI is beyond me.
Yes, of course it's a 22/6.8. Case life of 223/5.56 is short if you raise pressures too high as well, nothing special about the larger case there.
I don't care what Nosler claims about the 22/250. The point of this round is to be an improvement over the 223, in an AR15 platform. It shouldn't be that hard to understand.
It's pretty comical to suggest that a 223AI is comparable, unless you believe in magic headstamps. There's no making up for displacement.
A useful step up imo starts with around 40 grains of water case compactly. Even that gives you only about 8 % more speed. There are some guys that have claimed insane speeds with the 22-6.8. Noslers offering verifies exactly what I said all,along. At the same pressures it's only about 150 fps faster.
I do wonder what making it a 20 would do. .
It's not comical when you spend money on a new wildcat to find out the chronograph says you didn't beat the 223ai.
But have at it. Maybe Nosler's brass will be better.
So should we neck down the 30-06 to 22 caliber?
Of course the larger case is gonna win given like pressures but the Nosler marketing says 3350 is 22-250 velocity. Drive pressures up to 62000 in the 223 and the magical 300 fps isn't quite there anymore with the 22 Nosler.
This is basically the 22-6.8 with rebated rim is it not? If so, I've seen what the 22DTI can do and Mike is spot on in his maximum loads if you want to use the case again. Case life is short when you step on the gas.
Why no one wants to legitimize the 223AI is beyond me.
Interestingly I generally shot 60 plus on pressure in 223 according to some known comparisons... and I shot my once fired LC brass 5 times in important matches and then relegated to practice, which was generally another 10-15 firings...
But this is a bit OT. Never really dealt with loose primer pockets. Generally lost cases to neck splits eventually. Even with annealing every 5 loadings the first two rounds of loading. IE didn't anneal more or less after about the 11th firing.
55g FMJ's have clocked over 3500fps from my .22-250. I have a Ruger MKII in .223 that pushes 40g bullets to 3345fps and my Rock River 'Coyote' upper with its Wylde chamber pushes .223/55g handloads to 3184fps. The last thing I need is another .22 that fits in somewhere in the middle.
While I wish Nosler the best with the .22 Nosler, I'm thinking it is a cartridge for loonies rather than the general public.
As per their always,Nuzzler really dropped the fhuqking ball...and went FULL Window Licking Retard.
I like the Hornie 75BTHP at 2800fps+(pass the Lever') outta 18" Krunchentickers in 223/Wylde/5.56 yada,yada,yada.
Coming out with something "new" and taking a Goat Fhuqk case design(6.8SPC) and then further Goat Fhuqking it(rebating the rim),is fairly fhuqking hilarious. Then there is of course the fact that the 22 Nuzzler is a longer case than the 223,which obviously precludes using boolits which are the best of the ilk. Nuzzler yet again "offers" wares,that won't even shoot their own schit! EPIC fhuqking hilarity!
Obviously,nobody at Nuzzler shoots anything other than their mouth or Imagination,then they fhuqking proved it! Again. Hint.
All they had to do,was neck down the Grendel,eek the heavy COAL advantages and offer sumptin' that'd actually fling their own boolits,from long established/etched COAL confines and throat in accords. Doubly fhuqking funny,because they already offer Grendel brass. Hint.
That not even considering how much ass Nuzzler brass sucks,to begin with. So you "get" a schitty case design that is even more COAL hamstrung than the 223,"reap" Nuzzler rebated Dumbfhuqktitude and only to fling Ping Pong Balls at greatly added expense,diminished mag capacity,compromised logistics and copious Goat Fhuqkery as opening moves.
Typical Nuzzler.
Pass the 22 LBC and a 75 Poly Hornie at 2850fps,so as to reap the vastly superior BC's,vastly superior brass,vastly superior flight characteristics,vastly superior logistics and total absence of Nuzzler Dumbfhuqkery and their hilarious focus on headstamps.
Pass the .460+ 75gr Hornie BC's and hold ALL of the fhuqking Fluff.
Hint.
Just sayin'.
Bless their hearts.
Laffin'!
Yep...boolits matter more than headstamps.
Re-hint.
rost, for clarification, the 223AI has had great case life as does the 223. The short case life was that of the Hornady, SSA and RP 6.8 brass when the gas was stepped on in the 22DTI (22-6.8spc).
Interestingly enough, the large primered RP brass did a little better but I'm assuming Nosler is using a small primer in the rebated case...
As per their always,Nuzzler really dropped the fhuqking ball...and went FULL Window Licking Retard.
I like the Hornie 75BTHP at 2800fps+(pass the Lever') outta 18" Krunchentickers in 223/Wylde/5.56 yada,yada,yada.
Coming out with something "new" and taking a Goat Fhuqk case design(6.8SPC) and then further Goat Fhuqking it(rebating the rim),is fairly fhuqking hilarious. Then there is of course the fact that the 22 Nuzzler is a longer case than the 223,which obviously precludes using boolits which are the best of the ilk. Nuzzler yet again "offers" wares,that won't even shoot their own schit! EPIC fhuqking hilarity!
Obviously,nobody at Nuzzler shoots anything other than their mouth or Imagination,then they fhuqking proved it! Again. Hint.
All they had to do,was neck down the Grendel,eek the heavy COAL advantages and offer sumptin' that'd actually fling their own boolits,from long established/etched COAL confines and throat in accords. Doubly fhuqking funny,because they already offer Grendel brass. Hint.
That not even considering how much ass Nuzzler brass sucks,to begin with. So you "get" a schitty case design that is even more COAL hamstrung than the 223,"reap" Nuzzler rebated Dumbfhuqktitude and only to fling Ping Pong Balls at greatly added expense,diminished mag capacity,compromised logistics and copious Goat Fhuqkery as opening moves.
Typical Nuzzler.
Pass the 22 LBC and a 75 Poly Hornie at 2850fps,so as to reap the vastly superior BC's,vastly superior brass,vastly superior flight characteristics,vastly superior logistics and total absence of Nuzzler Dumbfhuqkery and their hilarious focus on headstamps.
Pass the .460+ 75gr Hornie BC's and hold ALL of the fhuqking Fluff.
Hint.
Just sayin'.
Bless their hearts.
Laffin'!
Yep...boolits matter more than headstamps.
Re-hint.
What are your 22 LBC loads? Powders,bullets. What reamer did you use? AA or Lapua brass? Which mags?
Will your 22 LBC rifle chamber a 75 amax a mag length ...touching lands?
I am shooting the 6 Rat off the Grendel case. 105's touch at mag length. 2750 fps
FWIW
The H2o capacity of the 22 Nosler fired brass,
in my sample was 37.4 grs, flat meniscus,
114.7 grs empty, with primer,
152.1 grs H2o, with primer.
From the sample I have,
there seems to be a fairly tight chamber,
as there is very little expansion just above the web area,
primer is normal appearing, there is a ejector mark,
and the line from bolt face extractor area,
consistent with the AR type bolts.
The diameter of the base, below the web expansion area,
just above the extractor groove measures measures .416.4",
across the web expansion area measures .418.5"
case neck thickness is .012/.013" (4 places checked)
length measures 1.475".
Tia,
Don
I find this statement interesting, and it's a shame it's only mentioned in passing: "Also in 22 Nosler is a 77-gr. Custom Competition bullet at 2950 fps."
I will wait to see full details before I pass judgment, but if Nosler has come up with a cartridge with a little more 'oomph' than the .223, and specifically designed it to propel long/sleek bullets from the tight confines of an AR magazine, I'd buy/build one.
From the side-by-side comparison picture at the link, though, it looks like the case length is the same as the .223 Rem. While that might work well enough with Nosler's 77-grain bullet (.340 BC), it doesn't look to offer better logistics for higher-BC bullets like Hornady's 75gr ELD (.467 BC).
More speed is good, but maybe an 1/8" shorter case length would have offered up even more advantages for use in the AR mag?
Agree, they could have made it more versatile.
IMO any 22 cal that will fit in an AR is too close to the 5.56, 200fps doesn't mean much in the real world. A good 6mm in an AR could take varmints, yotes, deer and shoot long range and there aren't any SAAMI 6mms in an AR.
We have 6.5s and 6.8s, the 25 and 7mm would be too close. People seem to love the 30 cal, even the anemic 300AAC. A 30 cal based on that Nosler case or the 6.8 that is short enough to use 125-130gr bullets would be a great medium game cartridge. The 30 Herrett or 30 Gremlin or a 6mm would have been better than a 22 Nosler.
6mm better than the nosler, maybe thats why I've had a 6/6.8 since about 2003 IIRC.....
I went with the 243 LBC, or 6mm Grendel; powder capacity is good and the shorter case works better with the 95-105gr VLD style bullets. If Nosler had used that case for their 22, it could have worked with the 75gr A-max or even 80gr bullets.
Terminal, there are several variations on the 30 Herrett in an AR already; it's a good round that performs well. The one I'm using with the 125gr Ballistic Tip delivers almost identical trajectory to 75gr 5.56, but with more power.
6 or 6.5 Grendel is where it's at, if you want to move "up" in an AR platform.