This may be old, but on Friday I was chatting with a guy from Accusport who says there a Rumor that Ruger may discontinue the No. 1 as a regular catalog item. He say it was Bill Sr. that kept it going, and the demand barely justifies manufacture. it may be limited to special runs only.

Anyone care to comment? Browning stopped making the high wall/low wall and next Ruger? Tell me it ain't so.

I would not be surprised at this. A annual production of 12,000
to 15,000 is not enough in our high volume gun manufaturing atmosphere.

Yet this kind of "RUMOR" will certainly help sell rifles. If there is any "merit" to this rumor Ruger would use it to clean up excess inventory of rifles before discontinuing the #1.

"panic buying anyone!!!!"

I hope they don't discontinue. The #1 is one of the few production rifles still being made that I like.

Sure...

Stick it to the lefties one more time........

I had heard they were just reducing the number of chamberings offered.

I'm never going to get a No. 1 in 6.5x55 Swede

I just picked up a 204 ruger in a Model 1a for $600. The regional supplier had several calibers on sale due to "discontinuation" of the model variation not the whole line. I think that they are eliminating the hornet,218 Bee, 204 in 1A, 300 weatherby in 1B, 405 Win stainless 1H, but the line will continue. I think that the bigger bores in the tropical variation are more popular than ever. I can't wait to get my 450/400 NE and would love to have a 470 NE model 1H.

Tod, I share your pain. A swede would be outstanding in the Model 1.

" can't wait to get my 450/400 NE and would love to have a 470 NE model 1H."
Not even a rumor of that one yet?

Not a hint. Just went by Fulton's Firearms for a visit. The owner said maybe June. I have my doubts.

What about the .470, that's just something you would like or have you heard a rumor? I remember yrs ago, Boddington saying a .470 would be a good chambering in the 1-H but there were no plans by Ruger then. I always thought that if they did chamber a nitro it would be the .470 but I'll be buying the .450/400 first one I see. My 9.3X74R is ordered now!

S.A.,

I have posted this before: I have held a .470 N.E. Ruger #1-H in my sweaty little palms. I should have bought it. This was about 10 years ago. Only reason I didn't, was that I thought someone was trying to be clever and it was not factory. By the time I researched it to find out it was indeed factory, Someone else bought the gun.

In all honesty tho', the thought of $8 per round of ammo, not to mention custom bullets and $250.00 dies, I guess I'm just as happy that I didn't. I seriously doubt if they made over 50.

Grasshopper

Ah progress. Redding just announced 470 dies and Grafs is listing them at around $65.
Also Jamison brass is available for $2 a pop, which is less than half of what they want for Norma 470.
Bullets- Woodleigh SN are available for under a buck a piece at Midway and for practice you can always use a cast slug intended for the 475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger.

Not cheap by 30-06 standards, but not near as bad as it use to be.

As to the factory status of that No1, I rather doubt it. 470 isn't listed in the No1 history section of the website, though they do list the 404 Jeff of which fewer than 80 were made. Could it have a custom by Hamilton Bowen? He used to do N.E. boomer conversions on No1s and he's fond of replicating factory roll marks on barrels. Just a thought.
SOS

There is no plans for a 470 NE #1. I would buy one if they made them again. As Grasshopper said they apparently made a few in the past. All I have got to say is Grasshopper what were you thinking? GRIN LOL
June is the new guess by my local man about when the 450/400 will be out in the States.

The obvious fact is that I wasn't!



Is that June of '07 or '08?

I'd be more inclined to bet on the '08.

GH, too bad you didn't know it then.
Strange that Ruger doesn't list it in the calibre history, maybe some type of prototype run was made?

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/PS-GaugeCaliberHistory-RI.html

S.A.,

I can think of at least three calibers of number ones that I Know were made that are not in that caliber history chart on their website.

Ol' Bill was not above making special things for his friends. (And I suspect for the RCA (Ruger Collectors Assn) for that matter.)

After I saw that gun, I talked to a noted Ruger collector and he was aware of it. Not only that, he told me they also made an uncataloged run of .450 N.E. Sometime later I saw one for sale in the Gun List. But I have never actually seen one.

When I saw the .470, I, at first, thought it was a rebored .458 Win. because it had the "Warning" on the barrel. Which would indicate production of around the early '80s forward. IIRC, I saw this one in April of '97. I do remember that it was old enough to have the "Red" pad.

I looked closely at the caliber stamp and it said: .470 N.E. in the same style of fonts that Ruger uses. That is what threw me.

In the Ruger catalogs, 1993 still shows Red recoil pads. 1994 shows black pads. That's about as close as I can narrow it down.

BTW, According to Ruger's Serial # History, it would appear that the black pads came about with the change from the #132 prefix to the #133 prefix.

Grasshopper

Makes a guy wonder how many 'oddballs' are out there. I see the did chamber for .35 Whelen. I'd love to find one of those-I didn't know they had it in a #1.
Anybody else out there see any 'different' chamberings?

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/ILURRn8fDYJDGCKWPEvkG3Se37mbrlzHxiKF9eq_QAdnOvRknkKpSSvheESMRIhHMRFQ7N0p5FrxDDEUyi9l4UvgqxBYTLX8J0XDrBA/Ruger%20%20%23%20%201%20Serial%20%20Numbers/Ruger%20%20%23%201%20%20Unusual%20%20%26%20%20Low%20Production

SA,

Interesting link. I have two of the odd ones mentioned. One is a 1-V in 6 PPC. The other is a two caliber stamp, `1-B. 7mm Rem Express or .280 Rem.

I would really like to get my hands on a 6.5 Rem Mag. or even a .264 Win.

grasshopper

Rumor has it that Lipsey's has commissioned a run of the Swede's this year, similar to the special run of the 257 Roberts that happened a few years ago.

Give them a call and see what the status is.

I heard the same, but haven't checked it out.

Some real oddballs there-some only with one made like the .45-100. Speaking of the 7 mm express/.280, I actaully have three boxes of Remington ammo that is marked 7-06. I heard they never actually marked a rifle this way(anybody have one?) but I actually own ammo marked that way on the box and on the headstamp.

Ruger does the reciever casting for C.Sharps' model 75. Kind of like a ruger no. 1 with an external hammer.

The No 1 will probably be less commmon in the future. Too bad, but we must admit that they fill a niche market. They are my favorite arms.

I have been hearing the "Ruger No. 1 about to be discontinued" rumor off and on for at least 20 years.

JB

If I am to judge by recent ads, they just began offering it in 9.3x74R.

Like so many "beautiful things", the #1 has a special place in our heart. I have held my RSI and just looked at it... my eye following the line of the wood down from the barrel cap to the toe of the buttstock... admiring EVERYTHING in between.

What a terrible shame it would be for this beautiful thing to cease being made. But, like so many "beautiful things"... it might one day happen... a sad, but true probability.

Looking at my #1 International is, in many ways, like looking at a beautiful woman wearing something revealingly "sexy"... there's definitely obvious beauty that one can see, but the slightly "hidden beauty" is in how it "IS" when "she's" in "her" own "special" environment... whether it's a beautiful woman looking back at you with "acceptance" in her eyes... or a beautiful rifle on a rifle rest performing its own "special art" at the rifle range or an eager companion in the woods waiting for that trophy buck to wander by.

Of all of my rifles... of all of my "long guns"... my RSI in 7x57 "turns me ON" the most. No rifle is as beautiful... or as "special" to me as its name... the Number One.

I "thank" Bill Ruger, wherever he is, for making such a fine rifle a reality. No other rifle I have... or will ever have... will be able to replace my RSI as my most admired and prized rifle.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

RonT,

Very well said and written.

Doc

Mule Deer,

Ruger is in a "different situation" today. There are selling off
4,000 acres surrounding their New Hampshire manufacturing facility and offering early buyouts to entise employees to retire. Ruger has never been union yet every production employee
gets payed by piece work. Ruger is removing the piece work and
paying by the hour/week.

Ruger has removed the non-selling fat from their 2007 cataloged products. Ruger is finally " marketing " the #1 rifle with magazine ads. I beleieve this is their last attempt to ressurect
this fine rifle.

25 years of negative press on Ruger rifles because of the Wilson barrels being used requires many $$$$ to re-build consumer confidence in their products.

T/C owns the single shot rifle market and Ruger never saw them coming..as most US manufactures didn't see them coming as well.
The T/C pro Hunter is retail priced almost the same as the Ruger #1 and the T/C rifle outsells the Ruger #1 by 200% tp 250%.

Ruger's rifle market market share has been "eroded" by complacentcy and in-diffenence at Ruger.. Ruger's attitude is we will do it our way and the heck with you..Mr. Gunbuyer.

Bill Sr. is gone, Tom Ruger died of cancer is the late 80's and Bill Jr. has retired and the only Ruger daughter married to one time V.P. Steve Vogel is enjoying her inheritance.

Ruger needs new "management blood".


P.S. John, My last to Ruger #1 rifles that I have bought were influenced by your "Rifle " article 2 years ago. My new #1's
did not "break my heart".

It will be a shame if the cease making the #1. While not as highly finished as some other rifles on the market, it is, in my opinion, the nicest production rifle made.

If only TC single shot rifles were on offer, I would go back to bolt guns.

You can find some craftsmanship and class in the bolt market whereas...in the classic advice about motor scooters -- TCs may be fun but you do not want to be seen on one.

1B

And here I was thinking that the rumor was that pics of your #1s had miraculous surfaced...

Can't say how I know, but trust me on this, they are NOT discontinuing the No1. Only certain models/calibers that don't sell. It always amazes me how willing people are to believe bad news....ah well.

Seems they have made quite a few 450/400s but can't ship anything 'til they get ammo to test 'em with. Also there will be a Cabela's special item 450/400 with color case receiver and circassian wood ala the 45-70s.

SOS

SavutiOneShot,

At you had some good news for us today.

Absolute NONSENSE.

"25 years of negative press???" Where do you get these statistics and what proof can you offer that your claim has ACTUALLY made an impact in the sales of the No. 1?

Since when?

Since when?

You have quite an active imagination. The LIKELY scenario is Ruger is "freshening up" their product line -- as manufacturers of any product often do -- by removing and replacing chamberings and versions that don't produce certain sales volumes and making room in their product line to avoid over-saturating the market. (Forty versions of the No. 1 would be nice, but not likely to happen.) It's also quite likely that a distributor with a large inventory of No. 1s would stand to gain if a rumor of the No. 1's demise gained legs on an internet message board.

Bricktop,

In response to your querrys. Ruger started using Wilson barrels from about 1975 to mid 90's. The Wilson barrels as a rule were long throated and accuracy was either exceptional or mediocre.
It was no secret in-side t the firearms industry or at the consumer level Ruger barrels had quality and there-fore accuracy issues. You can go to other forums on Campfire and the read the stigma of barrel quality still haunts Ruger.

Ruger's annaul production of #1 rifles is about 12,000 guns give or take a few thousand. T/C annual production of just the Encore and Pro Hunter far exceed that number annually. If not. T/C could
not afford its advertising budget.

If your Ruger and you see firearms competator selling single shot rifles whose retail price is close to your product and the annual production numbers are so skewed between the T/C and the
Ruger #1 the Ruger sales team CAN NOT say gun buyers are not buyer single shot rifles. While I understand that comparing the T/C Encore/ pro hunter to the Ruger #1 entails only that both are single shot rifles and in their differences they may appeal to a different gun buyer.

The Ruger #1 has been in production since 1868 and the T/C Encore sinse 1999 and the T/C has a greater market share than the
Ruger #1.


In regards to Rugers complacentcy. The Ruger mini-14 comes to mind. Since its introduction in the 70's it's over-all accuracy performance has not changed. After more than 30 years of production Ruger is finally addressing the accuracy issues. If that is not complacentcy I do not know what is. I asked my friend at Hornady why Ruger waited so long to address the mini-14. His response was "nobody at Ruger gave a sh**.

The next 10 yesrs are going to be very challanging for the American gun industry. That are going to be dramatic changes in companies and products. Remington just got sold...which I predicted last year due to the Walmart situation. You cannot lose almost 18% of your sales volume and pay 28 million an annual debt.

The foreign gun imports are negstively affecting the American gun industry just as the imports have screwed the American car industry.

I was a insider in the gun industry from the late 70's into the early 90's at the wholesale level. I have Paid my dues.

I agree with what Dr. Encore has written.

I, too, have read articles in various gun publications over the years in which many articles about Ruger rifles spoke of their general lack of expected accuracy.

I remember when Ruger rifles were first introduced. In fact, I bought a Ruger 10/22 when they first came out. My rifle's serial number is #9xx... one of the first 1,000 made. I also bought an old (but it was "new" then) 3-screw Super BlackHawk with a 7� inch barrel in .44 Magnum... and a pair of Ruger Bearcats (.22 rimfire) single-action revolvers for my two sons.

When my boys were 10 years old, they got to choose any .22 rimfire rifle they wanted... and my youngest son followed my example and chose a 10/22 like mine while his brother chose a Winchester 9422.

A year or so after they were introduced, I bought a new (but now an "old style") Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine which downed a 190 pound (field dressed) whitetail Kentucky buck with one of my handloads.

I also have a Ruger P89DC in 9x19 as well as my #1 RSI in 7x57... so it's obvious I "like" Ruger firearms.

I haven't bought Ruger firearms for their "accuracy" although I have found their accuracy generally acceptable. I bought Rugers for two reasons... (1) their sturdiness & quality... and (2) because they were AMERICAN MADE!

I've even been "lucky" with the accuracy of my RSI for which I'm still "working up" accuracy loads. Unlike so many RSIs, mine RSI is shooting 3-shot groups well under a half inch at 50 yards with 2 shots often going into less that .2 of an inch at that range... and my RSI is a pristine 1981 model which I purchased from its original buyer.

I also have to agree with the fact that the original barrel (which is still on my rifle-a "Wilson barrel"?) has a VERY long throat. I've set the bullet out of the mouth of the case until it's got only a single "caliber" (.284 inches) of the bullet's length still being held by the mouth/neck of the cartridge case... and the bullet is STILL 40/1000ths off the barrel's lans and grooves.

I'd like it CLOSER... but I don't want the bullets falling out of the cases! However, the accuracy it's giving me is better than I have a right to expect, so I'm not complaining.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Ron,

I've had no problem seating bullets around 2/3 of caliber into the case. Don't worry about bumping those things up towards the lands. Your bullets will NOT fall out.

GE

Apparently the point went over your head. The Wilson barrel "issue" is overblown and always has been. It's another internet rumor that keeps growing legs from anonymous wags who have no real experience. Any "damage" that occurred to Ruger sales is minimal at worst; i.e., it's a non-issue.

So?

This is absolutely too mangled for me to process. However, if I can grasp some of your "logic," how do automobile manufacturers stay in business? If each manufacturer makes a similar product at a similar selling price, then how do they compete for the same market? I can't say for SURE, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that not everyone in the market for a single shot rifle is necessarily interested in an Encore. Hence the Browning/Winchester 1885, Ruger Number 1, Dakota 10, Pedersoli 1885, Encore, etc. The same reason not everyone who drives a pickup wants only one brand. Ruger offers a variety of products not offered by T/C. Like the Number 1 Tropical, or the 1V, or the RSI, etc.


Nonsense. Got any figures to back this up?


I wasn't aware that the Mini 14 had ever been marketed as a precision rifle. Silly me, I always thought it was a short-range carbine with rather liberal accuracy requirements. You must be REALLY plugged in to Ruger's pulse.

Not particularly. I'm not seeing a great deal of imports impacting long guns.

And I am so proud you have decided to share your very vast and insightful knowledge with me and everyone else. I know now I'm a better person for it.

Your imagination needs to take a rest. You've offered up several half-assed theories with very little to back them up. I wasn't even going to respond to this thread, but your replies are just too OUT THERE.

Right. You're another of the "I've 'heard'" crowd, but you're also stating that your own experience doesn't seem to back up that rumor, does it? And it didn't dissuade you from purchasing a Number 1 either, did it?

So what? I own a couple of Number 1s, a Red Label (one of the FIRST made, since we're bragging), a GP100, a P89, a Model 77, a Mini 14, an AC556, three 10/22s, four Mark II .22 pistols, and an SP101. I guess it's also "obvious" that I like Ruger firearms. I also like the Sakos, Winchesters, Brownings, S&Ws, SiGs, Remingtons, Savages, and CZs in my small arsenal. Big deal. A firearm's purpose is to please its owner, is it not? I fail to see how the Number 1 hasn't succeeded in that regard.

Bricktop,

As a bystander reading this thread I would like to ask you to resopnd to the discussion with a lot less "ATTITUDE".

This has all of the aspects of becoming a pizzing contest and from what I can see it is ALL from the manner in which you respond.

Hey, it is a discussion not a fist fight, OK? So lighten up, continue to disagree but please do it in a respectful manner.

I remember a Ross Seyfried piece in Guns&Ammo around 1989 or so featuring a Bowen Custom No.1 in .470 N.E..
We know it can be done....I wonder if it is Ruger's marketing or legal department has kept it from being a production item.

Gaviidae_Esq...

Thank you, Sir, for your bullet seating information. I appreciate it. Based on your advice, I'll try seating those 140 grain bullets out a bit further.


Elkslayer... excellent observation. What you said + 1.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Doc,
From what I understand Ruger has always manufactured things in batches. That is common nowadays to make use of capital more efficiently. I don't think they ever made No 1's any other way.
As long as I can remember availability was determined by what time of year it was. I remember working for a small shop many years ago where myself and another young gunsmith would sit in the back room and chuckle while the owner told customers that Ruger #1 were not accurate. Both of us had #1's that shot very well in varmint calibers.
I do remember a rumor that the 7mm Magnums had a bore size which was a little generous in order to keep pressures down to a reasonable level. A safety issue that may have started the rumor about poor accuracy.
The Mini-14 was never intended for the Benchrest crowd anyhow.
I foolishly sold my #1 in 45-70 with the idea that I would replace it with a 375 H&H Magnum "someday". I have always thought that if you can't kill something with a single shot from a 375 you can at least slow it down a little.
I will be gripping my 220 Swift #1V a little tighter now with this latest rumor. I guess I need a 204 worse than a Magnum anyhow. You never know when a circus tiger will get loose..........
whelennut

There were some questions posed to you in my previous reply. Is there any particular reason you've dodged them? They're entirely appropriate for the discussion.

I hope the naysayers and rumor mongers take a good long look at your reply and maybe digest a little bit of what you posted.

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V

"Some real oddballs there-some only with one made like the .45-100. Speaking of the 7 mm express/.280, I actaully have three boxes of Remington ammo that is marked 7-06. I heard they never actually marked a rifle this way(anybody have one?) but I actually own ammo marked that way on the box and on the headstamp."
_________________________
IIRC, I think it was Layne Simpson that said he had a Remington 700 marked as a 7-06. I can't remmeber if that was X-ed out and .280 Rem. substituted, but I do remember him saying it was one of the very few so marked that escaped from the factory.
Regarding Ruger #1s with contract barrels, only one of the 17 I have has ever had to go back to Ruger for a fix. It was a 7x57 #1A that had a throat over 2" long as determined by a chamber cast. Ruger put a new barrel on the gun and it's a tack driver now. The only complaint I have about the repair is it took seven long agonizing months to get the rifle back. They can be slow.
Paul B.

PJGunner,
Looks like you are right-in Simpson's book 'Rifles and Cartridges for Large Game' he states that he owns one of the few rifles stamped 7mm-06(pg 207). He says he doesn't have any ammo stamped as such, maybe I should offer mine?

Dear PJgunner,
I know your pain with the "long throated" 7X57.
I had 3 Ruger M-77's in 7X57 which was my favorite cartridge for years. To be honest,Jack O'Conners writings turned me onto it.

My best groups ran about 1 1/2 inches with the 140 sierra and IMR-4320 powder. I "sold" all 3rifles to friends and they all killed deer with the rifles for years.

The M-77 7X57's were replaced with a M-77 in 257BOB. That rifle would shoot beautiful 1/2 inch groups.

Doc

One chambering that was dropped was the 1S in 7mm rem mag -- have one, love it, would love to buy another one.

Dan

I always get converned when any company loses it's founders and changes to management by MBA. I've seen many a great company run into the ground by professional managers who don't know or care about the products they make.

Re accuracy, my own experience with Rugers is that their accuracy was only fair - including bolt guns and single shots. Mu Browing Low wall will shoot rings around my number 1.

But the No. 1 has a ceratin something few guns can match. And as far as I am concerned, is easily fixed to produce a serviceable rifle - good enough to kill a deer.

If the No. 1 disappears, I will mourn for a long, long time.

Tod writes: "Re accuracy, my own experience with Rugers is that their accuracy was only fair - including bolt guns and single shots. My Browing Low wall will shoot rings around my number 1." Seems to me, at least in target/bullseye shooting, if you are shooting rings around the competition, you are not doing well. All 10s with many "X" is good.

My experience with recent (in the last 10 years) Ruger rifles is very good accuracy. This experience includes:

No. 1's:
.22 Hornet 1B, about 3-4 years old: This rifle will put 5 40-grain Nosler Ballistic Tips into under .5". The last group I shot with at at 100 yards had 4 in .18".
.25-06 special run from Lipsey's: Remington factory loads (100's and 120's) average about 1.25 for 3 shots at 100 yards; handloads average under .75".
7x57 1A: .75 to 1.5 for 3-shot groups at 100 with a variety of handloads. The same rifle rechambered to .280 AI does about the same.
.375 H&H Tropical: Averaged 2" or under for 3 shots at 100 with NECG aperture and factory front. With scope .75-1.5".
.405 Win. Tropical: Undr 2" with almost anything, well under an inch with both 300 TSX's and 40o Woodleighs.

77 Mark II's and Hawkeyes:
.204 Sporter: under .5 for 5-shot groups at 100 with favored handloads with 3 different bullets. Under 1" with about anything.
6.5x55: Under an inch with most loads. .75 or less with 120 X (pre-TSX).
7x57: Under 1.25 with about any load. (This did NOT have the long throat of earlier Ruger 7x57's, and neither did the 1A above.)
.300 Winchester Magnum: This rifle belongs to a friend who asked me to develop loads. I loaded some 180 Nosler Partitions with 73-75 grains of H4831, and it shot under an inch with all.
.375 Hawkeye: 1 to 1.25 inches with factory loads and handloads with Hornady 300's.

If that is bad accuracy out of factory rifles, I'd like to know what is good accuracy for sporter-weight hunting rifles.

JB

Mule Deer.......

Thank you for your interesting & informative comments on the #1's and Mark II's. Few, if any, of us have the many opportunities you have to handle and shoot such a large variety of rifles.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Mule Deer,

Why is everything that centers around rifle accuracy published as in so and so @ 100 yds. Why don't we see what group sizes are at 300-400 yds which is realistic shooting distances for game.

I've often wondered this, because bullet and barrell maker alike acknowledge that you need more distance than a 100 to see what your rifle is really doing. I've learned this as well since I've gotten into extreme long range hunting. Distances paint a different picture.

Is there a reason for the traditional 100 yd mark?

I kind of wonder about that as well, but I think the answer is most places only have a 100 yard range to test shoot their rifles, or in the case of component manufacturors, their bullets. Then, many of the ranges I've been able to shot at only went to 100 yards.
Paul B.