Just wondering if the recent/current production Winchester 1885 (specifically High Wall) is close in strength to the Ruger No. 1?
Been considering a modern 1885 HW in 405 Winchester and thinking about loads that would work safely in it. Have read several instances where folks worked up some pretty stout loads for the No. 1 when Ruger chambered the cartridge. Thinking about the 300-gr. Barnes TSX and heavier 400-gr. North Forks and Woodleighs. With no lever-action restrictions, would be curious to see if one could safely achieve usable velocities with heavier bullets in the '85.
Thanks in advance.
They should be comparable in strength.
Though if I had to fire an unsafe load in either one, it would be the Ruger as I suspect it is a little better at handling escaping gases.
Pinot, just purchased an 1885 short hunter in 405. I'm not sure I'd want to shoot anything more stout than the standard 300 @ 2200 fps. That will go through any game animal in N. America! Especially with that steel buttplate, ouch!
If the 1885 is one of the Traditional Hunter models with the sharp pointed crescent buttplate, I imagine they'd hurt like a SOB with any stout loads. They also have made a few .405's in a "sporter" model, with a sensible stock:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=463266079Take your pick. The Ruger is easier to work on and is made in the USA, the 1885 is also a very good rifle, made in Japan.
Don't know about the relative strength of the #1 and the 1885 but I did work up some high velocity loads in my stainless #1. Micrometer measurement showed that none of these loads expanded the bases of any cases but, out of caution, one should reduce powder charges by 5% for initial loads. Hornady cases and Federal 210 primers were used. All bullets were seated .025" from the rifling.
300 Hdy SP - 61gn TAC - 2366fps - col 3.13"
300 North Fork - 63gn Benchmark - 2470fps - col 3.245"
300 TSX - 67gn TAC - 2500fps - col 3.225"
300 TSX - 64gn Benchmark - 2520fps - col 3.225
400 Woodleigh SP - 56gn Reloader 15 - 1940fps - col 3.225
400 Woodleigh SP - 53.5gn TAC - 1990fps - col 3.225"
Tried 400gn (.410") Hornady bullets. They scattered all over the paper and the holes were oblong.
I a fit of looneyness I obtained a throating reamer and extended the throat by .28" thereby gaining a reasonable percentage of powder capacity. The following loads were fired in the long-throated rifle and most definitely should not be used in a standard chamber.
405 Winchester >>>(long throat only)<<<
300 TSX - 68gn Benchmark - 2594fps - col 3.50"
300 TSX - 68gn 8208 - 2553fps - col 3.50"
400 Woodleigh SP - 60gn 8208 - 2156fps - col 3.52"
400 Woodleigh SP - 60gn TAC - 2159fps - col 3.52"
400 Woodleigh SO - 61.5 Reloader 15 - 2162fps - col 3.52"
The 300gn load with Benchmark and the 400 gn load with R15 were exceptionally accurate.
Good to know, thanks. 300's at 2550 is up in .375 H&H territory.
And 400gn at 2150 is in 450/400 NE territory.
In case anyone is interested in the alteration: Doug Wells, Lock Stock & Barrel, Huson Montana has the throating reamer.
The Mauser 98, Rem 700, Winchester 70, and Savage 110 are all about the same strength in calculation. I have overloaded all of them.
Much stronger than the above bolt actions are Ruger #1, 1885, and handi rifles. I have only done the calculations on the handi rifle, but I have overloaded all three.
I use 70 gr H4350 140 gr in my Browning 1885 7mmRemMag.
That is 11 gr over max published.
The threshold of short brass life is at 13 gr over max.
My 1885 Uberti has gone all the way with 7x57mm rimmed brass necked down, until the brass flowed and the primer pockets grew.
I am just going on and on, but it boils down to gewehrfreund's post above. 1885 is plenty strong. The Ruger #1 has a gas advantage with enclosed firing pin.
I had one of the #1s in stainless and it was a great shooter. Sold it last year as I also have a 1885 Sporter, 1895 and a TC Encore barrel shortened to 20".
The Ruger wasn't getting much range time and had gone up a lot since I had bought it. Also was at this point going in the opposite direction with .405 in going to cast boolit loads so just didn't need an elephant gun for that.
The 1885 is just such a slick gun. I put the Williams receiver sight on it instead of a scope and it is a fun shooter. Latest boolit is a 350 grain RCBS flat point sized down to .413. I've also sold off all my 400 grain jacketed bullets except one box of solids made for me by Shell Reloading....just in case the elephants attack.
Wolf...those are quite the loads!!!!
Bob
They are indeed quite the loads. I developed them by application of The Rules (thanks JB), careful measurement of base diameters (for whatever they are worth) and firing the same cases multiple times with no measurable expansion ahead of the rim. The 400 gn bullets at 2150 are not at all unpleasant to shoot. I was very pleased that the accuracy with loads of "standard" length and velocity seemed unchanged after the throat was lengthened.