What deer cartridge is the favorite of most of you Canadian deer hunters?

1. 300 Win Mag
2. 7mm Rem Mag
3. 30-06
4. 270 Winchester
5. 308 Winchester
6. 7mm-08

You forgot .303 Brit & .300 Savage.

Actually I don't own anything on your list.The .270 is probably Number 1,but I've shot more than a few BC Mulies and whitetails with the .280Rem and the .280AI. Monashee

303 Br
6.5x55
270
30-06
308

Just to show on your list. A few years back, the 303 Brit for sure, and also the 300 Savage and 30-30. Most prolific for the past century would have to be the 30-30 lever gun.

This is probably the correct assumption, personally I use a .280, though this year I will bring along my .257 Roberts as I have it shooting 100gr TTSX pretty well.

Not mentioned in your list and not necessarily a "preferred" cartridge are shotguns with slugs (both 12 & 20 ga.)and 50 cal. muzzleloaders for those of us forced to hunt in the built up areas of southern Ontario.

When hunting in WMU's allowing rifles it might be whatever I pull out of the safe for a given hunt.

Jim

Numbers 1,2, and 3 are great elk, moose, and bear rifles, but most guys around here use a .25-06, .270, .243, or 7mm-08 for deer

243, 25/06, 270, 303, 308, are just some I own and hunt.
Cut my teeth on a 303 British.

Why is the 303 British so popular with Canadians?

No one that I know of produces factory rifles in that chambering.

The most used would likely be 308 or 06.
With 30-30 coming in close behind.

Personally I use a 308, 280, 250-3000 & a 38-55 but I like to be different.

Kinda like the 1917 Springfield for you fellers. It was the Canadian/British military weapon in two world wars, and for about $20 you could get one from Eatons or McLeods or any other department store. Plus they are powerful enough and accurate enough to kill moose and deer.

I know a bunch of guys that still use the old 303. I killed my first whitetail in 1989 with my uncle's 303 british. Most of the guys I know though use 308, 270, 30-06, 30-30. 7mm rem mag. There seem to be more and more 300 wsms around here in the last few years.

Years ago I attended a family reunion near Bancroft (Canada) and while there talk turned to hunting.
I waxed eloquently about the superiority of my .284 Win model 100. After a while I took a breath and asked, "so, what do you hunt with?"
A guy said, "303" I waited a few seconds and said, "so, tell me about it!" He replied, "it works."

Lesson? Listen and learn.

Jim

The big favourite around here is the 30-06.

Why?

While hunting deer in BC there's a good chance, in many places, that what you'll actually bump into is an Elk, a Moose, a Black bear or a Grizzly bear.

I'd guess 30-06 sales account for most of the ammo sold in BC.

Why 303?

It works. Well! Ruger makes their #1 AB chambered in it and they sell fast and furious. A lot is nostalgea, but more is the practical mind of the Canadian middle aged hunter. We all grew up with at least one in the house, and so in fact did many of our children. I own four, two sporterized Lee Enfields, One full military #4 mk 2 and one factory Ruger. They all function flawlessly, and deliver remarkable accuracy.

Randy

. . . . . . . and they do pretty good double duty at cleaning the head of some ruffed grouse as well.

There are a couple of things that most people forget about talking firearms for deer, black bears and moose. The biggest factor is where they hunt. There's a heck of a difference hunting whitetails in the prairies (the plains, for our friends in the US) versus most of eastern Canada in dense deer woods. Prairie ranges are a lot farther. They need the reach.

The second is the age of the hunter. Most, but not all hunters under forty have been bamboozled into buying overpowered rifles. Hunting magazines make promises of better, more successful hunts with magnums or some of the new chamberings. A magnum or larger, flat shooting rifle like a 25-06 might do well in western Canada, but it's a waste in Ontario or in most of eastern Canada.

Bigger cartridges kick more, the ammunition costs more and are more expense to shoot for reloaders.

Western Canadians may have to worry about brown bears or grizzly bears, so they might want something with a little punch, when they're in bear country.

Writers should educate their readers about rifle selection. Hunters should do their own homework and not depend solely on what they read. Ad men and full page colour spreads should be eyed with suspicion.

http://www.ruger.com/products/no1LightSporter/models.html

Dixie,

By your comment about factory rifles, why then is the Savage 99 series so popular?

Guys please don't consider my question derogatory in any way. I'm not putting down the 303. If any of you guys like and use it yourselves, I'm perfectly fine with it.

I was just curious as to why the 303 British is so popular.

One thing I fully recognize it the 303's ability to take deer at the modest range they are typically found in the eastern part of Canada's woods. The 303 has plenty of power for deer.

I assumed some of the more popular American cartridges, like the 30-06, 270 Winchester or 308 Winchester, would be the cartridge of choice for most hunters.

The .303 British was the service rifle for the Canadian Army in both WWI and WWII.After the war there were barrells of them sitting around that could be purchased dirt cheap.A whole generation of hunters started off with the .303.There aren't that many around anymore.The US Army's service rifle in WWI(and at the start of WWII) was the .30-06 Springfield.Lot's of guys used them for starter hunting rifles as well(The Garand just wasn't suitable! ) Monashee

Born & raised in Bancroft.
Still live only 40 min away.
PM your family name, I probably know them.

Took my 1st & biggest moose with a 303B.

I would have to say, that most houses in Canada that have firearms in them, most likely have, or have had a .303 in them.
I'm pretty sure there is a law about it somewhere....


R.

US cartridges weren't as popular in Canada because we simply did not have them up here in as great a number as the 303.

The 303 was in service from before WWI until the 1950s as our primary military cartridge. Surplus and commercial 1895 levers, Rosses, Lee Enfield No 1s and No 4s were everywhere. The cartridge killed every critter roaming our part of the continent. Then there was a disturbance in the Force. Sometime in the 1960s, US ad men noticed that there were 20 million potential buyers living north of the border.

We started seeing more ads telling us that 30-30s and 303s weren't powerful enough for bear, moose and deer. The generation born in Canada in the 1960s was programmed by the boob tube to reject these lesser cartridges in favour of better cartridges like Lazzeronis, Weatherbys, and magnums of any type.

Canada started using a lot more US designed cartridges in the late 60s/early 70s. With the advent of cable television, satellite technology, etc, we got more of your programming. As a result, the US had more of an influence on what happened up here.

It's hard for most Canadians under 40 to understand, but the US had less impact on our lives before then. It's not that 308s or 270s weren't good cartridges, it's just that we didn't need them.

Put another way, how many Chevy's do you need in your driveway? The 308 for example, is just an updated rimless version of the 303. It manages about 200 fps more MV than a std 303 load. Handloads fired from a Ross or P14, match the 308 foot pound for foot pound.

When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here.

Steve you are right. I saw this in Wisconsin for 20 years. It was 30-30, 300 sav. 32 Specials, 30-06. Then the big magazines came out. If it wasn't a magnum you were lucky the animal fell down at all. It calmed down about 8 yrs ago when I started seeing every other used rifle on the shelf was a mag. Seems at least down here on state side it's swinging totally the other way now. The 30-06 is way to big, " meat damage" is the buzz word. Now .243 win. are all over, and .223 rem., 22-250 rem. are being used with great results. I've seen pics of the damage with .22 calibers and got to say it makes mince meat of 300 lb hogs and white tails. Go figure. Cost of reloading supplies and recoil seems the reason.

"When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here."


I assume by saying "changed for good here" you mean changed permanently. It sure can not be described as a change for the positive. I know your affection for the old workhorse, this is just to clarrify for those under 40 who did not have the benefit of living pre USA influence.

Randy
a lover of rifles .312

I have a hankering to buy a .270.

Yes, so I'll state it this way.

As a kid(I'm old enough to rember the first TVs,US channels only) I got a CIL catalogue,the 303 loading weren't that much off the 308 or 30-06.But,it is amusing the beliefs. In the elk camp next to me in the campground ,one of the hunters was hunting with loaned 30-06 pump instead of" wimpy 303". My answer was 30 caliber is a 30 caliber. I've clocked Winchester 180 at 2200+ in 303 and 2500+ in 30-06 carbine,for 100yard shot ,not much difference.I hunted with either a 338-06 or 338WM,which I said were the same.

I just smile when I hear about that wimpy, underpowered 303. The person waxing eloquent is unaware of their ignorance. It is not a 300 mag, and that is just fine witth me.

When the ad boys started their magnum campaign, the "Use enough gun!" mantra was pushed far beyond sensibility and rational expectations. They did a "bang up job", to be sure.

Magnums have a place when hunting longer ranges or against dangerous game. In Wisconsin, Ontario or New Brunswick, you rarely need something that powerful though. They recoil too much and are more expensive to feed.

Magnums mean more powder, different, more costly bullets and cases. It's harder to introduce new hunters to the sport when their shoulder may end up in the next county. Even loaded down, magnums still use expensive cases and more powder.

I suspect that's the reason why magnums are more frequently seen on the used rack. Once the shine has worn off, hunters realize that they made a mistake buying it and flog the thing for something else. The only winner is the gun shop.

I think that the majority of serious hunters use enough gun for the area where they live and the game. There's no reason for them to discuss the latest cartridge: they don't need it.

They don't need to discuss sectional density, bore diameter or energy transfer. Most are too busy taking game with old or anemic cartridges to bother with Internets debate or ad hype. Good for them.

Don't get me wrong; I think magnums have a place, but more magazine space should be used to educate hunters on what to buy. Hunters too, have a responsibility to learn what they need versus the latest craze.

This last statement usually falls on deaf ears. Chasing shiny things seems to be de rigueur these daze.

Yep, my favourite 30 caliber magnum is the 30-06. PLENTY for everything I shoot. If I was "stuck" with a three aught three I'd survive, but there are a few more bullets to choose from in .308 over .312.

Definitely. If this was 30 years ago, we'd have 150s, 174s, 180s, 200s and 215s for the 303 British. No more. I usually take a 30-06 to camp and carry a 303 or 308 as a backup rifle.

.308 bullets are a more sensible choice nowadays. For deer, depending on the WMU, I carry a 44 Mag or a 308 bolt. The 308 is going away however, in favour of another lever.

The impression I get is that the most popular deer cartridges in the east Kootenays, are:
1. The 270
2. 30/06
3. 308
4. 243
5. everything else.
50 years ago, the 303 would have been at the top of the list.
I have killed more deer with my no.4 MK1 than with evry other rifle I've owned, combined. These deer were taken with the 303 or, in the last 20 years, with the 30/40 Krag (I re-barreled it). By the way,it has also shown itself effective on elk, moose and black bears.
When I was 14 years old, my dad bought this rifle for me. I kind of wanted a 94 Winchester but he felt the added power of the 303 would make it more suitable. I'm glad he did. GD

Steve,

Non-magnums may be fine for deer hunting but for moose they are not necessarily the best choice for a seasoned shooter. Almost everyone of my acquaintances who hunt the big lake country of north-western Ontario now use magnums and few of us are youngsters.

Don't know why but at one time it seemed to be common for moose not to show themeselves until they were within 50 or 60 yards. Now they are frequently seen at much longer distances. I don't think my calling has deteriorated so it must be something to do with the fact the lakes we hunt now are much bigger that where we hunted years ago.

When I hunt deer a shotgun is often used (because of regulations, not choice) or a relatively small caliber rifle.

Jim

If you're taking longer shots, then this is one of those times where magnums make sense. I don't know anyone in your hunting party, but I assume that they can comfortably take a shot at an extended range.

When we go moose hunting, we seem to hunt more clearcuts than years ago, but for those instances I stick with my 30-06. It's one of the reasons I take two rifles. The other is in case one becomes unusable.

This year, I took the 45-70. My longest shot in two of the spots we had scouted would have been 48 yd., according to my rangefinder. The longest shot in one other was 130 yd, across a clearcut. I could have used the 45-70, but took the 30-06. That didn't take moving around into consideration.

This goes back to what I said about hunters knowing where they'll be hunting. You know what rifle will do the job and choose accordingly.

Steve,

Got a kick out of your extended ranges and using the 30-06. I had changed from a 30-06 to a 300 Magnum about 10-12 years ago, and it certainly was effective. I have since graduated back to the 30-06, and with the use of Barnes TSX, dropping a bullet weight and some of he new to me powders, I find the 30-06 only loses about 30 yards or so to the magnum. I have killed more game with a 30-06 and a 22LR than I have with any other, but I've carried one more too.

For me, and for moose or deer, the 168 TSX at 2900 has become my one bullet does everything load. I also have started with the 45-70, and also a 405 Winchester for shots under 200 yards.

For what we hunt, a 30-06 is all a fellow needs. That's not what companies that sell new stuff want to hear though. Modern bullets and powders have breathed new life into older cartridges like the 30-06 and that is a thumbs up to modern technology.

That said, new magnum rifle sales will continue. A year or two later, they will be back in the same store on the used rack. Hopefully, they will be traded for a rifle that is matched to what most people are hunting.

Hey my Grandfather started me out hunting with 303 and it does kill now my son got it and his son will be next . Its been pass down 5 times now grandson will be 6 times great gun. Just like the rest .I would go with 300 savage 250 savage also seem a bunch when I was in camps tn Quebec

A Savage 99 chambered in either cartridge would do the job quite handily. It would also add a touch of nostalgia and class to any hunt camp.

The guys I hunt with use the 30-06 in Northwestern Ontario. I do too from time to time, but this year my 303 will be the go to with the 7x57 being #2. Actually the moose still come in close to the call around here during the rut. Even slashes are only 300 yds or 400 yds and the 303 is up to the task if distances are known.

Patience is a benefit when calling or when stalking. The only places I have shot game over two hundred yds is in Africa. Here in NW Ontario it has been a long time since I have shot over 100, usually closer to 50.

Randy

That Savage commercial reminds me of my dad. He bought a 300 Savage in 1956. Fresh out of the service in Utica NY. He payed 110 bucks for it. Still has it. Has not used it in 20 years though.

My Dad's 300 Sav 99 was a Christmas gift to him from Mom in 1927. It came with three shells that took three deer. He shot his last buck with it in 1986 and then on December 10 he took a trip to Heaven from where he has not returned.

Your post makes me wonder what Mom paid for it.

Whatever it was, the ole 300 fed our family many a year. Fact is there is some V in the freezer left over from last year the ole 300 provided.

It appears to be plenty adiquate for fellow hunters South of your border and the 303 Brit has more whomp than it.

Any of you fellas hunted with the 303 Sav?

Jim

Randy,

The last four moose our camp has taken were shot at 378 yards, 455 yards, 475 yards and 250/275 yards. The rifles respectively were 30/378, .338 WM, 300 WM and 300 WSM (all lasered). The short range kill could have been made with an 06 but instead a 300 WSM was used. It put the bull down where it stood instead of allowing it to possibly travel the 60 or 70 feet it was from the water.

This is not to say we will never get another close range shot but in case the range is long we have the equipment which allows us to take the shot. Personally I prefer 50 yard shots at standing moose but we don't always get what we want.

Jim

Ya'll need to send them Ruger #1's back home!

Jim that is some long range moose shooting for sure. I doubt I would be up to the task. Obviously you and your crew are.

Randy

I figure anyone who can smoke a gemsbok at 500 facing away should be able to hook up a moose at those meagre distances. Remember my first one at 400yards with open sights???

Yep, was my "go to" rifle when luck was down in deer season was a .303s featherweight for yrs. Never missed a deer with that old girl & a tang site. Maybe I should blow the dust of her again this year.

You know what I think?


150 gr bullet.

I should have to get a lot older and more forgetful before that moose leaves my memory. JC Higgens with course open irons. We were both pretty young then. Where you 16 yet?

It was nice talking with you the other day. The furnace pump went on the frazzle the other day and am hoping to have it fixed by tomorrow.

Randy

Randy,

We have been very fortunate in our group. Often all we see is one moose in a week and in the last 5 years only once have we seen one we didn't get. The one we didn't get was because a legal shot wasn't possible so we didn't shoot at it.

I was at our club range this morning and ran into someone shooting a 30/378 who I had never seen before. His only shooting at the club was at the 300 yard marker. When asked he said he liked the cartridge very much.

The majority of the moose I have taken were in the early days with a standard .270. I find that cartridge very comfortable to shoot and prefer it to my .338. I have to admit, however, the .338 has been proven to have more punch and put the moose down more quickly than the .270.

Jim

I was 15, Randy, and it was my first year to hunt legally with my own licence. Wish I still had that old loose bolt Higgins -- remember Dad traded it for the Savage you now have. Here'sthe only pic I have of that moose. I remember Dad defending me against Uncle Bill saying it was a lucky shot, and Dad said "Well, he must have had it pointed in the right general direction, cause the proof is in the back of the truck. Good old Dad.



Hope you get that heat thing worked out before you freeze up.

And you're right. . . . . . . . I think it musta been a 150, but in hose days, who knew?

The heat is fixed and I watched 3 does in he field for an hour. I winked at them for a bit through the #1 303, but decided to leave them for buck bait. There is a 10 point and 14 pt still coming in after dark, but the does are there in daylight so once the rut starts the bucks likely will be as well.

I hope so.

Enjoy the grandsons and kids company.

Randy

Boy we are kids! that is a fine bull. Bill and you were at each other all the time so it is no wonder he gave you a hard time. No 400 yd shot (6" above perfect placement by textbook) that kills it stone dead is lucky. Dad did have a way of understating the obvious. I really miss him a lot this time of year. He would have loved your grandkids as much as he did our daughters. You got some big boots to fill my son! My feet are too small to fill his shoes.

doesn't it have to be metric?

Back then it was Imperial not metric. So it was 400 yds uphill both ways.

Nope. Shooting has always been standard for me. I don't see a football field in metres, I see it in yards, and that is how I guage a shot. Measuring te 400 yards of that first bull was done by a 15 year old that was 10 feet tall and stepping off "full-sized" yards, each about 5' long.

Randy,

Your feet are bigger than you think. Try on a pair of those Paris boots, and you'll see. Feet and ears never quit growing. I usually take a size 10, but 11's fit me so well, I bought 12's -- remember?

I don't know if those boots would allow me to lift my feet anymore. They were fine boots made in Paris Ontario and bilt for working for sure.

I agree however my view of a football field was typically only a yard at a time. Once in a while I got to see a bit further and maybe that is why I don't shoot much at distance.

I did make a good hit on that gemsbok, but won't tell anyone I am a 500 yd shooter, not even myself. You however are a different story entirely.

Your "little" brother

Boots made in Paris?I've been trying to figure out who made them and I can't think of a shoe maker in Paris.Fill me in please.

Glenn

I think my little brother may be mistaken. They were made by a boot company "Pierre Paris and Sons." No idea where they came from, but they were heavy duty boots about 45 years ago.

I used Google and found this. It was a western Canadian company.

http://www.parisorthotics.com/hcp_company/index.html

I'd say you found it, Steve. Dad used to wear them. They were heavy but had great support and had an oil resistan sole, as I recall. Thanks.

There you go Steve I was remembering 40 years ago and obviously didn't know then either. They were amazingly supportive robust boots.

I wondered if they were an imported or domestic boot. It seems like a million years ago now, but most of the stuff we bought back then was made here or in the States.

Yes the Made in Canada tag was seen on most merchandise. Our manufacturing industry has been eroded by trade agreements that make foreign goods at advantage in our country. Those tax dollars earned from business and workers are lost with the jobs, and yet people race to buy foreign made goods. Our unemployment figures directly reflect these trends. Jobs lost are replaced with lower paying jobs, if at all, and we wonder where our standard of living has gone. Taxes are raised and health care is cut. Pay more get less coverage, unless of course you are on welfare and don't work.

My rant for the morning.

There was Pierre Paris bootmakers in Vancouver who made the best light cruiser caulk boots other than full out custom made. I had lasts made for my feet by them about 1955 and ordered a pair evry couple of years until they shut the shop down. Perhaps they had an Ontario shop I've never heard about????

I doubt we'll ever know unless someone in Ontario can confirm that they had a shop there. They were probably for sale at a local shoe store or they might have been mail ordered in.

I'm going to pick up some low cut leather hiking boots very soon. My old ones are nine or ten years old and they've pretty much had it.

I think Dad bought them through the paper company stores or at the very least a localshoe store. But that was 50 years ago.

Thanks for the link Steve.

You had me going there as I couldn't think of a factory in town that I didn't know the history of.

Glenn

No problem.

Has anyone bought Wind River Hikers from Mark's Work Warehouse? I've been snooping around, checking out their boots. Unless I know the product, I don't like to mail order. There aren't many stores that sell decent footwear.

Same reason the '06 is in the United States. It was the Canadian and British Cartridge of WW II, and in military use was very effective.

It's understandable why the 303 was/is a popular caliber all service cartridges are popular for the same reasons. What I found interesting were the comments about all the American calibers that were "sold" to Canadians. In the same thread people a waxing nostalgic about the 30-30, 300 Sav.,250-3000 etc. all are American designed cartridges usually chambered in American rifles. Even the Mounties carried Winchesters and Colt New Service revolvers.
By the way I have 2 sporterized Mk4 SMLE rifles. I bought one 6 months ago for $30 at an auction it was missing the magazine, and the cheapest magazine I've found cost $40 something wrong there. Does anyone know of a good side mount for a scope, both have had their issue sights removed.

No different down here really. Most people my age (40) their dads and grandads hunted with sporterized '03 Springfields in .30-06 or sporterized Mausers in the same. A lot used a lever action .30-30 and killed deer by the rail car load.

Then about the same time you speak of in the 60/70's media in all forms changed and people got magnumitis.

It's kinda like the old saying about being poor. "We didn't know we were poor till someone told us".

Skip23;
You make an interesting point regarding American made firearms being used by the NWMP/RNWMP/RCMP. Actually if one looks into our historic military procurement, we often seem to have ended up with American made firearms there as well. Not always of course, but often enough that it surprised me when I first noticed it.

One of the better thought out mounts for the Mk 4 - in my estimation anyway - was made by Parker Hale and was an aluminum side mount.

Now the sticky wicket with a side mount on a Mk 4 is that they weren't all milled exactly the same and if you only mount on the side, then at times your scope might well be pointing quite a bit to the right.

One that I recall modifying was doing exactly that, so much so that the internal adjustments on a 4X scope couldn't correct it.

If memory serves, and I will warn you that I type pre-coffee here, I ended up moving the rail that the rings attached to forward enough to drill and tap the action and get it mounted straight there. I then shimmed the space between the side of the action and the side mount in with bedding epoxy and called it good.

At last contact with the owner, it was still out killing BC moose and deer, so if that counts as testimony to the modification then it was a success.

The downside of trying to find Parker Hale mounts is that when I did a quick search of Parker Hale mounts, I was only able to find some for sale in New Zealand.

We do see them for sale from time to time up here at our gun shows, but then as you have likely guessed the various SMLE's are as common as grass up here.

Hopefully that was some use to you Skip23, good luck with your rifles and on your upcoming hunts as well.

As to the question posed by the OP, a quick check on the ammo shelf at the local Canadian Tire or these days Walmart will tell one what the locals shoot.

Since we shoot a mixture of wildcat and obsolete cartridges along side the more usual stuff, we'd be a poor sample in a poll.

Good luck on your hunts this fall.

Regards,
Dwayne

DB,

I think to a degree it depends where you hunt in Canada. I was in Alberta a couple of weeks a go and it was different than here in BC.

I killed my first deer with a borrowed 303. I don't see the 303 Brit much anymore, it is more like a nostalgia thing I think currently as Ruger is chambering one in their single shot. As others have mentioned 30 to 40 years ago the 303 was very common, nowadays I just don't see them.

Here in Central BC I see a lot of 3006's, quite a few 270's, and quite a few 308's. I would estimate that around here it is probably the 3006 by a nose over the other two. After that and in no particular order 300wm and the 7mmrem.

Yes, 303s haven't been produced in many years and people tend to replace things that they consider "past their prime". Except for the Ruger, the last production rifles chambered in 303 were made in India in the 1970s.

People want new, powerful and shiny. That's fine, but many hunters and shooters will end up trading away magnums that are too much for their shoulders. Good for them! If you cannot shoot it comfortably, it's not worth the bother.

Much of the reason that we used to outsource rifles for the military, NWMP/RCMP and other government agencies was because we had trouble building factories or getting existing rifles sent to us from the UK. We were dependent on Britain for many things back then, including rifle production.

Some of you may know the story of the No1 Mk III Lee Enfield that we adopted in 1916. Prior to WWI, Britain would not sell us any LEs, so we ended up producing the Ross: a wonderful hunting rifle for its time, but dismal as a military arm. The Chambers were too tight and would jam when feeding British made ammunition. The cartridge specs were different between CDN and British made stuff. The Ross was officially taken out of first line service and replaced with the No 1 LE.

You could tell that the govt was outsourcing from many different suppliers because of the number of different cartridges used by official agencies. It must have been a nightmare at times getting ammunition.

Because Canada is officially bilingual, the cartridge must be of either British or French origin.

I'm Canadian born, pressing 76 years ago. But the Brit 303 has never been a favorite of mine. Though my first big game rifle was such.

Since then, I've owned and used most popular American cartridges from .25-06 to .458 Win Mag. I'm a user not bothered by "magnumitis" or nostalgia. Yet, my long-time favorite cartridge is the practical, hard-hitting .45-70 in late model Marlins or Ruger No.1's. I use modern loads with smokeless powder and tough bullets that will take down any big game I hunt. Contrary to some thinking, the modern Marlin, when loaded properly, can reach WAAAAY out there to take a moose, black bear, elk, grizzly, brown bear or white tail. AND, anything in Africa, with the "right" load. It's been done, not a few times!

But my favorite "toy" today is another "antique"... the fabulous 9.3 X 62 Mauser! Again, when handloaded properly it can "handle" any game in the world... and has!

Currently, my favorite big-game rifles are a Ruger #1 in .45-70 IMP and a TIKKA in 9.3 X 62. I'm very international!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Yuck!

That must explain why we never became a world power. Had we used French made and designed arms, we'd be part of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany or been turned into a big, black hole in the ground! I shudder to think.

Given the choice, give me English shootin' irons every time over the Frenchies. Tommy has brought out some real classics.

Don't tell anyone, but I prefer bolt action Euro-arms to most of the stuff made in North America. If I did not have any mechanical skills at all, most of my bolt rifles would be Tikkas and/or Sakos.

I have a couple of SA made Puma Model 92s and a hodge-podge of other action types.

Since I like to tinker, I rebuild many of my rifles using new triggers, bolt handles and stocks. I like Savage or Stevens rifles because I can twist on a new barrel too.

Jerry Teo actually did my last barrel though. It's a HB Shilen 6x45mm with a Choate Ultra Varmint stock. I replaced the trigger and bolt handle a couple of years ago. It's heavier than all get out, but it's mostly for the range. I was prepping some cases for it today and am hopeful that my homemade 76 gr. bullets will group well.

WRT cartridges, the older ones work so I never bothered replacing my 30-06s, 308s, 303s, etc. with any magnums. I just don't need a 260, 7-08, etc.

What we need in Canada is a decent source of aftermarket stocks. Affordable hunting or varmint stocks that is. I've got two rifles that need replacements.

Well if we include Finland into the mix, all my rifles would be Tikkas - 695's, 65's and T3's. I also like some of Bill Ruger's offerings and ''''gassssppp! the odd Browning.

The first three Finnish rifles I ever owned (and still have) were Russian reworks A 91/30, 91/24 and an M39. Two Sakos and a Valmet. All three were brass bedded (yes!) and shoot far better than they have a right to. I bought them when everyone sold those crappy "Russian 91/30s" for a song. Few people knew about Finns skills with arms.

The 1924 is worth some money apparently.

The only rifle that I sold which I truly regret is a 695 that was chambered in 6.5x55mm. Oddly, I had two 6.5x55mm Mausers and sold off the Tikka! 20-20 hindsight.

Don't know many guys up here shooting an 8mm Lebel!!!! Monashee

I had the pleasure of shooting one in the James Bay Frontier a couple decades ago and three caribou fell to 3 8mmLebel from an old "Berthier". Only one I have ever fired.

Ruger put out a special run of #1 rifles in 303. They got snapped up fast.

And I would hazard a guess that most Canadian gun owners have at least 1 Lee-Enfield. I have 3 Bubba-Lees.

I have seen more Canadian-Bubba .303's by a huge margin than any other rifle or calibre. Given the difficulty of mounting a scope the variations are endless and hilarious.

n007,
During the '50s,60s and probably into the 70s Eatons and Simpson-Sears sold the sporterized .303 through their catalogs.I remember in the late 60s that a cut down military stocked rifle was about 30.00.
They were more factory conversions than bubbas.

Glenn

That's right. In the 1970s Woolco sold them as well. All of them were "professionally reworked" by some company. That consisted of removing the upper hand guard/bands and cutting back the forestock. They were also reblued.

I had an emaculate sported Woolco version in my hands a few years back. The owner still had the sales slip from the store!

WRT military surplus rifles, Lovett's original location beside KW Hospital in Kitchener used to have barrels of $5-$40 Lee Enfields, Enfields, Rosses, Mausers, etc. that you could pick through.

Keith Lovett sold his business a couple of years ago and was going to move to Cape Breton. I don't know if he ever did.

Glenn;
If foggy memory serves they sometimes went for as low as $20 for an unaltered one at either Army & Navy or Princess Auto stores in Regina.

They were sold, as Steve mentioned, in big barrels or drums. I can't for the life of me recall whether the drums were steel or wooden though.

Even then the "Jungle Carbine" would usually go for a whopping and decadent $45.

My first center fire rifle was a P17 that I bought off of some friend's father for $15 when I was 12 or 13. I shot a couple crows with it and sold it to another buddy for the same amount.

It was an early indication in my life that I'd better not be a gun trader for a living unless I developed a weight problem!

Thinking back on it now, I'd say that at least every other farm house in Saskatchewan had some variety of .303. Of course every single one had a Cooey .22.

All the best to you Glenn and good luck on your hunts this fall.

Regards,
Dwayne

We didn't have a Cooey, rather a 22 Browning pump. People refer to them as "trombone" now but in the distance past there were Browning, Winchester and Remington 22 pumps. My first 22 bolt rifle was an Anshutz I bought for my Mom, that she gave back to me when she turned 65. I still have that rifle but it does not get shot much if at all anymore. The #1mkIII does get its annual workout still though. I let my cousin's son shoot it the other day. He had never heard of such a rifle. I think Dad bought it at Marshall Wells or McCleod's for $25. It has seen a lot of use and the wood and metal show wear. There is still no rust nor much bluing for that matter, but it still holds everything in 6" at 100 yds open sites for me.

Since we are reminiscing I remember buying a Jungle Carbine for $10. Kicked like a mule but after putting on a new $10 buttstock it was tolerable. Sold it eventually for $25 and figured a 25% markup was a good deal! How times have changed.

Jim

Actually, Dad traded Carl L. for an old 35 Winchester that laid behind the seat of his truck all winter and got some reddish brown residue throughout, and as I recall, Carl said he got it (the LE) at McLeods for $18.95. And remember when we thought there was a bend in the barrel from doing duty on the old double track? Man! Memories!

My go to cartridge for big Saskatchewan deer is a 150 grain 30-06 Hornady Interbond.

Carl still has that Winchester actually. I asked him if he ever sold it to give me a call. He said he got it from Dad, but never mentioned the LE trade. I guess you being older has some advantages. That barrel still looks bent but a straight edge proves it true. That brass butte plate is as soft as ever.

Welcome back

If that's what you use for the big ones, what do you use for the small ones?

Randy,

Remember the year Dad got three moose with 2 shots out of that old 'meat in the pot' gun? Must have WAY overpenetrated.

Yes, and we are supposed to think they were underpowered. He did a lot of two with one shot on deer, partridge etc. but those were moose.

30-06 is my choice. 165 grain boat tails- good for 300+ yds.

No arguments from me, except I use 168 grainers (TSX) and the extra 3 grains of bullet weight makes them penetrate better.

Thanks Dwayne,
I was ballparking that 30.00.I do remember that there was a restocked version for 45.00.Might have been a Parker Hale?

Glenn

Haven't shot a deer yet with a 168 TSX in .308 cal but shot some elk and all went right through it leaving a quarter size hole on exit of ribs. Don't much shoot deer anymore, developed a hate for the meat because we ate them all our lives. There like fricken rabbits around here, it's like no challenge anymore. Probably same where you live.

Well sir I love deer meat although caribou is pretty fine eating when I can get it. No hunting here for us. The deer are stable but not problematic yet. I wish they were
Randy

It's so bad here with vehicle hits on deers the insurance companies are pushing for shotgun and bowhunting in and around urban areas. There are fields not far from here that you can count a hundred deer feeding almost every evening.

378 Canuck, where do you live that there are so many deer? I ask cause I always wanted to hunt deer in Canada.

PM sent.

Been an interesting thread to read from a visiting Yank's perspective....up around Peace River,and a bit furher south east of Edmonton, 300 magnums flourish like flies at a picnic; I see more 300's there than anything else,among guides, locals etc..

I bring a 270 Winchester or a 7 mag,myself.

I also bring a 270 when I go to New Brunswick.Everyone there seems to have a 30/06.

Of course this could all have to do with who I'm bumping into up there.

Only the smart ones.

I'm not sure if that link is related to the original boot company but Pierre Paris used to made caulk boots for logging and heavy duty work boots. They were based out of Vancouver BC IIRC. In their time they were the premium logging boot on the west coast.

Northwestern Ontario, too. Dad's choice for years.

Here in New Brunswick it's boring old 30/06, 303, 308, 30/30, 270. Come to think of it, I own three of those five.

I personally use a 257Roberts.
.

Nuthin' wrong with any of the six you mentioned. Some are downright perfection.

I guess I need to get a 270. That will frost the_shootist.

A 270 is a 30-06 wannabee. It's evil.

In 1970 or 1971, I wrote to Jack O'Connor and he was gracious enough to respond. He wrote that he preferred the 30-06 for anything bigger than deer.

That would be moose, elk, most black bear, and hairy Russian women. (sorry about that last thing. I was trained by the CF.)

Here in NB there seems to be lots of hunters, but very few shooters. Gun clubs are small & loading components hard to get locally. Here in Saint John there is no powder/primers available for sale locally w/o driving some distance. Common chamberings are chosen for ammo availability from Can-Tire and WalMart.

The 30/06 is VERY popular here by far!

.

You must be refering to the Roberts.

.

I agree SuperCub, but he is a died in the wool 30-06 afficiado. His one character flaw.

The younger brother

I'll put my 30-06 away when it quits shooting so blamed good, and it kills pretty decent. When I can't handle your 375 or my 405 anymore, I'll buy a girly man 270. Looked for a 250 Savage at Cabelas yesterday, but they don't stock the good ones at all.

None of the above!
My two favourites are the .303 British and the 6.5X55 Swede.
Cat

I like the 270Win a lot, preferring it over the 3o/o6.

For this eastern hunting, we don`t have any big bears to worry about, deer and moose are easy to kill, shots are not typically long, so chambering choice usually doesn't make much difference. Comes down to personal preference for some and ammo availability for others.

I've been using my 300 win mag lately, but it has to much potential for damaged meat, if you make a bad shot. I'm thinking of switching over to a 7mm08.

forslund;
Welcome to the 'Fire from the south Okanagan.

You don't know any folks from the Cherryville area do you?

I ask only because I used to shoot against a pair of brothers with that last name who were from up there.

Anyway, it's no matter really, welcome here.

Regards,
Dwayne

Hello, my Northern neighbors,

I am way down south of you, in North Carolina and Georgia, but I went out of my way to get not one, but two SMLE's. They are both 303B, and they both shoot well. I wanted at least one to hunt whitetails with. My first is a 1945 Long Branch that was made in Canada. It is a tack driver with the ladder type aperture sights. It has been sporterized, but it was tastefully done. The second is a 1916 that was made in Birmingham, England. It is a bit rougher, due to age and hard use, but the bore and action are fine and it shoots nicely as well. I hand load my cartridges, and use a 180 grain bullet in a Sierra Game King. I also love and shoot the 7X57, and it is in a Mexican Mauser. My very favorite deer rifle thus far however, has been my 280. I like the range that it can give me, and it is my most accurate rifle except for an AR15 in our now standard military cartridge. My longest deer taken thus far, was with the 280 at 415 yards in South Georgia. I was thrilled when I saw the deer drop, as I had practiced for the long shot a lot. I had doubts that it had enough power to take a big deer at those ranges, but it hit slightly left of where the tail connects to the rear end, and did a complete pass through and exited to the right of the breast bone area. She was the biggest doe in a herd of about 22-24 deer in a bunch. I had a good rest, so I took the shot. I also shot a nice 8 point buck about 25 minutes later.

I just wanted you fellows to know that there are some, south of the border, that understand the fine ole lady, the 303 Brit, and know a bit about her history of service and in sporting fields. I am still looking forward to taking a deer with mine...probably the Long Branch.

Hi Guys, I have just joined here and this thread seems the perfect place to jump in I spent 35 yrs hunting in Alberta and my first rifle was a sporting type No4mk1* beautifully done with pistol grip stock etc. because they were so inexpensive and plentifull I at last count have 19 of them over the yrs.before I started reloading factory 150gr ammo worked fine for deer, why I got talked into a 300 win mag I don't know but it got sold after a short time I had been shooting black powder for a few yrs when in 1987 my hunting partner decided we should hunt with it I never looked back and many deer moose and pronghorn have fallen to my muzzleloaders and BPCR's I moved to British Columbia 5 odd yrs ago and built a house etc so haven't had any time for hunting here yet or got a new partner that I can work with,when I do I will have a hard time not taking one of the .303's out along with my new Marlin 45/70 guide gun in case of Grizz. cheers Ian.

Welcome Ian. Glad you joined. Have fun, find a partner, and get to the hills!

Shot this deer on Sunday with my Leeper built Ruger .in 303 British with the express sights on it.
great cartridge and a great rifle!
I love the .303 Brit as a cartridge , just because som many seem to trash it - it has never let me down on any rifles I have ever shot it in!
Cat

I use a .300WM for everything, I needed a gun that will drop all species and provide some grizz protection on northern BC moose and elk hunts.

With a cushy recoil pad and scope setup that works well for me recoil isn't a problem. I put 120 rounds through it before hunting with it to get comfortable and its performed well on deer and moose so far with minimal meat damage using 165 gr Barnes TSX factory loaded ammo.

.303 in our deer camp.

From the photos that I have seen , Bill Leeper hasn't been given the credit he is due for the great gunwork he has done over the years.

It would be fun to see some various close ups of your rifle, and hear you tell of what all he did on your rifle.

Congratulations on the nice buck!

I've splashed that rifle on three or four different sites, and Bill's name gets used a lot by me, for sure!
here is a link to some pics on the single shot forum for you to look at.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...eper_s_303_build_kills_suppe#Post5854003
Cat

i know i,am late in this but your mom would have paid under 50.oo fo the gun and yes i hunt with a 303 savage ,30-30,250-3000,308

For quite a number of years I killed all my deer and moose with one sinlge rifle, that being my 284win, loaded with 139gr. Hornady BTSP's.

In more recent years I've used with good effect, the following
25'06 (100gr. Part or TSX)
270WSM (130gr. Accubond)
358Win (200gr. Hornady SP)
7mm-08 (120gr. TSX)
280AI (150gr. Ballistic Tip)
300WSM (165gr. Interbond)

Sadly my deer hunting will be done with a game cam until next fall. My daughters are coming to visit in late December, andshooting will be done at least one day. They insist.

Randy

Well, I can tell you that in Northern Alberta a lot of people like to shoot the 300WM, 300WSM, and 338WM. I do own a 300WM but I find the recoil at the range tends to be a little stout. I prefer the 270 myself with a nice premium bullet but I recognize I'm in the minority.

ruger does 303 in their No 1

ruger does 303 in their No 1

308 or a 303 here.

This year my 303#1 and the second my 375 H&H (just because it needs to be broken in. The deer here are a good size, but not aggresive.)

Did you have any accuracy issues with your 303? What bullets did you use? I ask because of the bore diameter. JB reports that it's 0.313 inches.

Oddly enough, one of the better grouping bullets in my 303 Ruger is a .308 Hornady 220 gr. RN, and I've tried it several times just to rule it that it might be a fluke.
The only bullet that it does not like is a Barnes, all others work very well it seems.

Interesting. I think the long shank has something to do with that.

Have you pushed the pressure past 49k? If so, what was the result? I expect that the brass would take a beating.

I've read that the 303 brass is very prone to head separations, but I never encountered it here. I keep my 303 rounds at 303 pressure -- if I want a 30-06, I have that covered too.

The brass is thinner, and for Lee Enfields at least, separations are usually the result of their longer chambers.

In theory, if Ruger kept the chambers to minimum spec, stretching shouldn't be too bad. That, and the type of lock up is different. No 1s are stronger and don't flex. That's the theory, but at the end of the day, you still have to examine the cases.

We know that they followed the original specs for the barrel. The measured land to land measurement is .313 inches. That's why I asked about the accuracy. WRT chamber length, a chamber cast would have to be made.

Those 200 gr .314 I bought from you shoot very well but I refuse to use them in practice. I need the 200 to last mr for a long time. That is unless the manufacturer is back into production.

Probably correct regarding the long shank theory, as for pressure there were no sign of excessive pressure on the brass and I was loading a good amount of 4350.
Case life is excellent with the little Ruger, much better than with my Lee Enfields.
I'm still loading brass after 8 to 10 firings, trimming every 3rd sizing.

I won't be making any bullets unless my shoulder gets better. The repetitive motion is painful. I already have arthritis there.

I'm glad to hear that the Rugers are shooting okay. I was worried at first that the barrels were oversized for the bullets. They seem to obturate just fine.

Sorry about the shoulder Steve. I have one of those as well.

Randy

Man! You guys with only one shoulder are something. I have two, and I can feel them both, that's how I know I got 'em.

Gentlemen, My suspicions are confirmed. This is "The 24 Hour Storefront Bench". Cortisone is my middle name. All kidding aside, getting older has it's down side. Still better than the other thing.

Here in eastern Canada, I like to have one rifle to do it all generally speaking. I know it's nice to have a collection but you can only use one at a time so I have 1 really nice rifle that's my go to gun. Remington Model 7 XCR fluted 20" with McMillan Edge stock. 308 Winchester.
Not the hottest caliber on the market but versatile for all game in this area. I am a little recoil sensitive to my ex 300wsm, so the 308 is a perfect fit for me.

Gives me all the options from coyote to moose.

BJ

The 308 Winchester is so useful for 90% of the continent. One could easily make the argument that it's all one needs - period.

Hunters would be hard pressed to find another cartridge that's this good out of the box. No improvements. No unusual or difficult to find reloading equipment. The ammunition is easy to find off the shelf, if you don't reload.

It's a rimless 303 British.

Out here in BC is see alot of 300's of the various flavors.I grew up in Sask and I'd say 30/06 was king followed by the .308 and its offspring the .243

I'm in BC and I shoot .30-30, .308 and of course .303 British (a No4mk2)

Mykos

Welcome to the fire. I suspect your rifles have never come up short on the deer.

Specially not when the afterburners cut in on that 308.

I have to get my 303 to get the afterburner effect but until I do I will limit the 303 to 1/4 mile.

I've hunted for close to 50 years and met one guy that shoots a 30-30. 270 and 06 are probably one and two but everything from 243 to 300 Mag wouldn't be far behind.

I truly think it makes a lot of difference depending on the terrain, vegetation etc.

In the bush a 30/30 lever still works as well as it ever did. The shelves of local stores have as many boxes of 30/30 as they do 308 and more than 7-08 or 260 which can be hard to find.

Among local long time bush hunters you will find as many 300 savage shooters as 30/30. The 270 and 30-06 are found among road hunters or slash hunters.

Try wildcat composites out of Edmonton. And for the record I'm in central B.C. and currently use .375 Ruger, 30-06, 308, 303, 7-08, 6.5x55, 22-250, and .223. There's not a single "magnum" in my safes at this time.

This is an interesting read.When I was stationed at Cape Christian 65-66,the Eskimos were using .243 and .270s. Hudson Bay at Clyde River had a good supply of Ammo.

The Mounties had switched from .303s to .308s.

I believe this was also the first detachment to go from dog team to Ski- doos for Patrol.

Since the LimbSaver recoil pad as well as Remington's verson of it, recoil from 300 WSM or less especially when wearing a cold weather parka is not much of an issue.

I can shoot 40 rounds from a bench while wearing a tee shirt with a LimbSaver equipped 300 WSM and not have a sore shoulder the nest day. This was not the case with my first 270 Win back in the sixties when it did not have a recoil pad.

To the original OP a .30 cal 165 Hornady Interlock or something similar from anything between .300 Savage and .300 WSM would be about ideal. For shooting down long straight pipe line right of ways I feel speed is desired but not necessary if you've practiced at longer ranges.

no no no no its an slightly larger sister to the 300 savage ,,come on steve

norm

C'est la meme choise. N'est ce pas?

I've taken a lot of deer with 270 win. I have used 30.06, 308win, 7mm rem mag, 338 win mag sparingly. With the later,I was hunting other species when deer presented themselves.

So what are you trying to say Randy? You may need to interpet fo us non speaking Joual,Chial, Anglophones.

It is the same coice us it not?

I've used the 8x57 mauser,45/70,243,6mm rem,303 british and 308 win,but I killed more stuff with the 30/06 than all the others combined,yup 30/06 is still king

WOW! I can't believe the number of views this thread has gotten.

I had no idea when I started it that it would go on to become soooooo popular with everyone!

To everyone who has and is going to post in the thread I say thank you, God bless and good hunting this year.

Be safe.

Well Ruger produces their Number 1 single shot in .303 British but that's not why it's so popular. After the war in the early 50s, they used to sell surplus Lee Enfields at deparment stores, brand new in the grease for $10. You could get a "sporterized" one for $15. Everybody and their uncle bought a .303. Every camp has one. It's what our guys used in the wars. They work great on moose, deer and black bear but aren't too handsome to look at. I think that the .30-06 is probably the most popular deer hunting cartridge in this neck of the woods, although it's not my first choice. The .30-06 is a great cartridge, I just find it boring because everyone has one. Now the .35 Whelen or 9.3 x 62 on the other hand...those are a little more interesting.

Ugly is as ugly does. I consider them as a handsome rifle in either the full military or sporter configuration. I like both the #1 and #4 models in their multiple mk designations. The chambering, like the 30-06 is charmingly reliable. I own many of the Lee Enfield, Long Branch and even an original run of the Ruger #1.

It has lost favour with the younger crowd as the new lighter faster more commercially available and marketed wonder wizzums are presented as necessary to kill the new improved kevlar chested game encountered in the bush today.

I use a variety of different rifles as I hunt and shoot for fun, but the 303, 7x57, 30-06 and 257 Roberts all leave me feeling well able to cleanly take any game I encounter. I don't hunt at great distances as I live in the bush. I have shot my 303.s and my other rifles at 500 yds and they are as accurate as any other on the target range.

Use the rifle you already have to harvest deer. Use it enough so you know its trajectory well and it is comfortable to you. If you are starting out, or if you are tired of the big noise and recoil, buy a less agressive chambering in a less expensive used rifle. You will not be undergunned.

So how much does a Lee Enfield cost today, in decent shape?

$150.00-$250.00 or there about

Do you mount a scope on them, or use the open sights?

Around here, Lee Enfield prices have gone through the roof. It's been like this for a few years now. A No 4 in good condition is $350-$450. A No 1, $50 less. Crazy.

If a guy was looking for an inexpensive rifle that's cheap and easy to feed, a Stevens 200/Axis or similar, chambered in 308, would be a better choice.

Steve, I understand the point you make. I bought a Remington Seven in 308 Win. a couple years back. The Lee Enfields have the collecter's intrest, I would guess. Then we have the dollar, both Canada, and US losing value. On many items, not the increase on price as much, as floating higher to reflect the lower currency.

Depending on the model 500-600 dollars for pristine, 150 to 300 well used but good condition. The rare models are as high as 1200 for pre 1900 models.

My prefered rifles are T/C Contender carbines my son and I shot 3 very nice Coastal blacktail deer this last fall.

First was shot with a 45-70 barrel loaded with 325gr FTX @ 1850fps.

Second was shot with a wildcat 308Bellm = 444 Marlin brass necked down with 308 Win dies 150gr Rem Core Loks @ 2620fps.

Last was shot with my favorite = 375JDJ loaded with 260gr Accubonds @ 2280 - 2300fps.

This year I am grabbing my 18.5" barreled OD green Robinson Arms XCR-L in 6.8SPC loaded with 95gr TTSX @ 2825fps.

Moki
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