http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2012/03/15/nl-huge-coyote-killed.html

Not like any coyote I've ever seen, that's a wolf.

I've never shot a wolf - but I have shot a whole bunch of coyotes and none of them ever looked like that critter.





Johnny $

That is no coyote!

Can't be a wolf. That thing is only 81.4 lbs. Everyone here knows that wolves are always AT LEAST 150 lbs if they are an ounce. So, gotta be a coyote.

80lbs. is about right for a male wolf east of the Mississippi, 100 lbs. would be a large one.

Oh Really?????

that's just some BS spread by a bunch of Eastern Wolf huggers that try to pass them off as cute little darlings.

EVERYONE knows the murderous bastards are at least 150 lbs and most are over 200. What the hell is wrong with you?

That's a face only another wolf would love! I shot this one late Nov it weighed 72 lbs. ..that dude must think everybody fell off the turnip truck!

Regardless or weight, the animal in the photo is definitely a wolf.

There we have it. There's no possible way it could be a wolf. It does look and quack like a duck though.

I vote yes, it is a wolf. But will bet the guy wins a rifle!

Time for a new scale.

If your gubermint tells you it ain't a duck, then it ain't a duck... until the left hand comes along and says that not only is it a duck, but ducks are illegal to kill, and it just so happens they've decided to fine duck shooters $500 everytime they shoot one...

Serioiusly if that isn't a wolf I don't know what the heck is. I've not shot a TON of 'yotes, but if I saw that thing around my hunting area I'd practice the SSS routine...

"Fleming wasn't sure whether the animal was a coyote or a wolf because the tracks were so big. However, Fleming was told at a government-sponsored coyote seminar a month ago there are no wolves in Newfoundland."

There may not be any now, but there was at least one!

As the article states, coyote bread with a wolf, result= Very large mutt with wolf characteristics. I've heard of these cases before. I guess they are not all that uncommon.

Please post the results of the DNA paternity test of who's the daddy. Interesting one to follow. If it is a cross breed mutt, Does he still get the new rifle???

BJ

It will be interesting to see what the DNA results come up, I suspect a mixture of dog-coyote-wolf.

It appears the coyote is only a recent arrival on the rock.

The eastern coyote is found throughout eastern North America. It is not native to the island of Newfoundland. It was first sighted in 1985 off the Port au Port Peninsula, and the first specimen (road killed) was confirmed in 1986 in the Hughes Brook area.

And there again, it could be someone's escaped hybrid.

[quote] If your gubermint tells you it ain't a duck, then it ain't a duck... until the left hand comes along and says that not only is it a duck, but ducks are illegal to kill, and it just so happens they've decided to fine duck shooters $500 everytime they shoot one...[quote]

A hunter shot a "really big" coyote down by Grand Island about 5-6 years ago. Took it to the G/F guys. They did some tests and determined that it was a wolf (OMG) and then spent about 6 months trying figure out how to charge the poor hunter with a crime.

Game cops finally let it go...


Johnny $

Wouldn't wolves eat a coyote rather than breed with it? And yeah, this could be an escapee.

Yes. Wolves don't tolerate coyotes, just as coyotes won't tolerate foxes. The only way that I could foresee an inbreeding situation, was if it was under a controlled (domesticated) intro-fertilization situation. In the wild, wolves try to consume whatever coyotes they come across.

Maverick,
Red wolf/coyote hybrids are not unusual. Estrogen does strange things to critters and all bets are off when it is abundant.

+1

Eastern Timber Wolf !

Yes, the commonality of it was conducted at Texas A&M. There's quite a writ concerning the genetic engineering program done at that university. In the wild, however, there's no documentation as yet.

No, there is a fair bit. A lot of folks that are not TAM have been involved in this and you can search around for a pretty fair literature on it. They do hybridize in the wild where red wolves have been reintroduced.

Who knows what a wolf would "rather" do, but seems like a lot depends on that day's difference in basic drives. If hunger is stronger and the wolf can get the coyote, that is one thing. If the mating drive is stronger, that is another.

Same goes for dogs in this area. Rather recently, the "wolf experts/managers" down this way exterminated a bunch of pups pulled from a den because they were hybrids and would have "corrupted" their already corrupted hybrid wolf population - the wolf bitch had mated with a dog.

You figure it, eh?

Brent:

Possibly in Old Mexico there might be, but in the Sitgreaves reintroduction area which encompasses the entire Arizona/New Mexico population, the population is pure and no hybridization has occurred. So, I'm not sure which agency you're citing.

Maverick

Well, this seems very interesting, and some "experts" in the area do not agree. Please provide the authoritative source for your statement. Thanks.

Mav:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...4&uid=3739256&sid=47698770416297

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v351/n6327/abs/351565a0.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

There is a lot more of these too if you want to focus on just the red wolf/coyote hybrids

Bearguide you believe what you may about size but the majority of song dogs in Eastern Ne and Western Iowa are carrying domestic dog DNA and can get quite large.BTW we have some in the Western part of the state that get upwards of 75 lbs,sorry your Canadian variety are midgets

The majority of Iowa coyotes are dog hybrids? Who did this work?

I was hoping you might be able to cite agency literature. As you know, lay science is highly suspect. Are there any agency accounts you can point to? That would be helpful.

no lay science. Not even sure what that is. Agency work is poorly reviewed and generally of second tier quality where NOT published in the mainstream literature like these.

More than likely, these studies were funded by agencies of several sorts. Check the acknowledgements yourself. I know a few of the authors and they are the best of the bunch.

I hunt on both sides of the Missouri river, my pards and I have taken many over the years that aren't pure coyote..some almost charcoal in color.I killed a really big one mottled in color out of my bow stand about 5 yrs ago so they are around.

So you're saying that you don't trust the biologists who work for your own state's department?

Maverick940: Would you kindly provide the authoritatve source to support your statement, as follows:?

Thanks.

In relation to Mexican Grey Wolf reintroduced populations:

New Mexico Game and Fish; Arizona Game and Fish; Department of the Interior, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service; Department of Agriculture, National Forest Service.

Coyote my A$$

Woody,
You and I share the same basic area, except I'm about 90 miles north of you. We have taken and seen some of the dark gray 'yotes and have seen one of the mottled charcoal dudes. However, all of them had the face and tail and were the size of a coyote. I don't know if they are hybrids or if it is a color phase.

I know that none of them looked like the canine in the picture.

Years ago we had a BIG dark canine that we nicknamed "The Bass Singer" he sounded like a bass trombone when he vocalized. He always seemed to be in an area between the Elkhorn river and some feedlots in the sandhills. Saw him twice but never close enough to get a shot. Then he disappeared. A couple years later my oldest daughter and I were calling in a really brushy oxbow right on the river at night. It was during the rut and I had challenged called a few times with nothing answering. Then - I heard something breaking thru the crust on the snow. I challenge called again and got an immediate answer that rattled the filings in my teeth. Bass singer or his progeny was back! My daughter, who was in her mid-20's at the time, and an experienced caller/hunter, stood straight up and said out loud: "I'm going back to the truck!!" End of that hunt.

I would guess that there was more than a little woof blood in that critter too.

Johnny $

Wish I could dig it out but took a pic several years ago of one really big one in a group of 4 that came by at first light as I just got in my stand.Charcoal in color and at least 1/3 larger than the rest with a not so bushy tail[no mange either].I know these aren't wolf or chupacabra crosses and too numerous to be mutations so I'm confident they have domestic canine DNA or what else could it be?

"...chupacabra crosses..."

Well, DUH!!! (slapping forehead here)

I don't know if woofs and 'yotes crossbreed. Seems to me that their relationship would be more along the lines of a coyote/red fox relationship. Which is predator/prey from what I have seen.

On the other hand, I have seen a coyote try to breed my little Springer spaniel bitch. And the lil' tramp was interested!! BTW an open choked 20ga with 1oz of 6's will kill a 'yote - if applied with some frequency and urgency.


Johnny $

Looks more like a real nice wolf that is not overly large to me, but I've only seen wolves and not coyotes. A 150 pound wolf would certainly be record book, IMHO. 80-100 more normal with a big one going maybe 120.

From what I read, coyotes usually don't hit 50, but I am no expert.

That's someones sled dog, you're all wrong... or right. I have also shot some pretty hefty coyotes in my day. I never weighed them but they've been over fifty pounds I will guarantee that. Almost as big as my 70 lb German Shorthair. Those are all east of the Mississippi which I always thought eastern coyotes were bigger. All the yotes I've seen in Wyoming and Texas look pretty little and scraggily to me. If not a small, weak wolf I would guess some coyote dog (husky) hybrid.

Depends if the wolf is horny or hungry.

Agree on all accounts with a rare north eastern yote occasionally pushing 60lbs.

This one was 52 lbs.

Pretty short tail for a wolf,but pretty big head for a coyote.Be interesting to find out the DNA results on this one

But that coyote you got there is no doubt a coyote and doggone he's big!!

No, I'm saying they don't have the training, the experience, the equipment and technology, or the budget.

That's why most state agencies farm out this sort of work to their other state agencies - state run universities. Just the way it is.

But if you like agency work, get on the horn and call the folks at the USFWS Front Royal lab in VA for instance.

Maverick940: Thanks for the general reply, but the request was for the authoritative source. Merely naming agencies involved with that program at one time or another is NOT naming an "authoritative source" regarding DNA. And, some of those agencies are not primary - at least one seems hardly involved at all by now. Which agencies have issued any scientifically authoritatve and definitive DNA documentation of the "non-hybridization" of those implanted wolves (as pure Mexican Grey Wolves), and please cite the document(s) that support your statement. As you may be imagining, this has been a serious discussion topic and some say that the documention shows other than what you state. I would like to experience your hard facts. Thanks

Red wolves have been hypothesized to be a "hybrid swarm" consisting of genetics from coyotes, gray wolves and domestic dogs. Biometric analyses seem to bear this out, but I have not run across any DNA results. Surely, there must be some at this point in time.

The original isolating mechanism that kept wolves and coyotes from interbreeding frequently was the fact that female coyotes and female wolves came into heat at different times, and the dynamics of pack affiliation and interspecific territoriality limited opportunities for cross-breeding.

Introduce the domestic dog into the equation (females may be receptive at any time during the year), and you get hybrids with both coyotes and gray wolves. The original range of the red wolf was habitat that was marginal for gray wolves, although the bison herds on the coastal prairies of Texas did provide a prey source that permitted a population to live there.

Native Americans had domestic dogs that were undoubtedly descended from wolves in Asia, but they were almost totally dependent on humans for their sustenance. The ones that went feral probably didn't last long, and if they did and bred with wolves or coyotes, it seems unlikely that the young would have survived. Without the help of the pack, it's almost impossible for the alpha female in a pack of coyotes or wolves to provide for a litter of pups.

These days, we are back in a situation where all three species are thrown together in a situation in which the ability to hunt and kill wild prey is not that important to survival. With the reintroduction of gray wolves back into the U.S., I am sure that there are a lot of hybrid swarms developing throughout North America.

One final note: throughout the 18th and 19th century, a variety of ecotypes (populations of a species that were adapted to a particular habitat type) were described as subspecies (and sometimes even as separate species). These descriptions were based on variations in physical characteristics that probably were simply points in a continuum of varying physical characteristics across the entire range of a "species". DNA analyses are beginning to sort some of this out, but there is a lot yet to be discovered.

This is information from the Ontario MNR.
The coyote in Ontario is a cross of Western Coyote and the Eastern Wolf.
Because of the mixed ancestry appearance varies greatly.Animals that look like dogs have no dog DNA when tested.
Known coyote/dog crosses are highly infertile,the males don't help raise the pups unlike the wolf/coyote crosses and female coydogs drop pups in the dead of winter.Two months ahead of the wolf or coyote.That is if they can even breed.

The trappers I deal with here in Southern Ontario were submitting DNA from all their kills to the University of Guelph and never had one with dog in them.

Glenn

Hey, mudhen - very good info. I sure learned some things. Thanks.

Coy wolf

All the agencies mentioned have reams of data on geneticism and the purity of the genetic trait per the experimental Mexican grey wolf reintroduction program. If you have the interest in reading about the program and learning about it and the public process which is also involved, you should contact those agencies via telephone or by way of their independent websites.

Maverick940, have you, yourself, read such published info? It would appear that you have not done so. Having read everything one can find on the genetic makeup of those implanted wolves - as put out by SOME of the parties you noted - the purity you claim is not verified and is subject to serious doubt. The common understanding among many involved is that the implanted wolves are hybrids.

Your bold and blanket statement in the beginning has not been supported by your producing even one credible data cite, as requested. Is one left to assume that you did not know whereof you spoke and that there is nothing additional to be learned about that statement?

Of course. Why not? I mean, I love reading data. In fact, my rather large library predominately consists of text book materials and published state/federal/international agency data.

Who cares? It's dead and all the cervids are rejoicing.

The eastern coyote that has colonized the Island of Newfoundland is a coyote/red wolf hybrid. The Newfoundland Wolf was killed off by the 1930s.

No timber/gray wolves were ever transplanted and to my knowledge no wolves have been legally kept as pets. Domestic coydog hybrids are also virtually unknown on the island.

The closest wild wolf population would be southern Labrador. It is over 600km. Doable, except for all that salt water in between, and crossing that distance on pack ice is highly unlikely. It is possible a wolf may have crossed over the Strait of Belle Isle at the tip of the Northern Peninsula, however, the distance this "wolf" would've had to travel to reach the area where it was shot more than doubles. Unlikely, but not impossible.

That said, the animal pictured definitely displays more wolf than coyote characteristics. I'm guessing that the DNA testing will show it to be a wolf/coyote hybrid, with the recessive red wolf genes having become dominate in this animal. Of course, it's just one more WAY...wild associated guess.

i do'nt know if wolves ever cross with yotes but tex. biologists trapped one in austin that weighed 83 lgs.--cranky72

While I agree with you that this is the case under most circumstances, have you ever been around dogs in heat? It doesn't much matter what the female looks like, the male will pretty much claw his way out of a steel crate, or jump through a basement window (shattering the glass), to get to a female. It doesn't even matter if the female is the right size, as with breeds at either end of the size spectrum. Those pheromones are STRONG!

I think we were already pretty sure this was the case.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/dna-testing-confirms-large-canine-shot-newfoundland-wolf-113856478.html

Looks like a wolf