After the death of her previous owner I was given a well bred female english setter a few days ago. She's about a year and a half old and apparently from excellent hunting stock. I haven't explored the details yet out of respect for the family. The son indicated that after things settled down he would find out the exact DOB as well as the kennel she was from. All fairly irrelevant to my question right now though.


She won over my family the first evening I brought her home which is saying something. She's an intelligent, sweetheart and already loves to please both my wife and my seven year old daughter on daily walks where they've taught her to heel quietly. She's somewhat timid although I think thats simply because of what's been going on in her life and she was very hungry for whatever reason (she wolfs her food like I've never seen) but is slowly coming out of that. We've really enjoyed her.

My question is, where would you guys suggest I start with her field work? I think it's important to make her feel comfortable and confident in her place with us. Never having worked with this breed I would appreciatevsome of your thoughts about where you would take this. She has tremendous bird drive so far which I take as true to good breeding.

Just looking for your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Scott

Give her a couple weeks before you do anything...its what we call the "honeymoon" phase...she will start to adapt to the new home and start behaving like herself again....Once she feels fitted in, I personally would start with some gun training, to see if she is gun shy ( unless you already know she's not...)
Just saying that because all other hunting training is to no avail if she is scared of gunfire....

I agree with ingwe. If she is gun shy, you could be wasting your time with anything else.

I would start small caliber (22 rimfire) and, not too close, while she is feeding, since she is so interested in food.

Once you see her reaction to that, you can go bigger and closer as you see how she responds.

If she is NOT gun shy, I always like to start them with a bird wing tied to the end of a fishing pole and line. You should know very quickly if you have a natural.

Good Luck. donsm70

I had one for 12 years. Also, worked with some others.

In general I have found the breed to be on the softer side. For me, this means training without yelling, shock collars (or use sparingly), and negative pressure. Positive reinforcement is the way to go.

With a new older dog like this, I would spend MUCH time on trust and building the relationship and not pushing the field training. This can be done with simple training like walks, come, and any other task that the dog can do well and be praised for.

Also, my ES was gun shy, but was fixed quickly using the method donsm70 indicated.

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll just kick back for a while and enjoy her like you all advised. There's certainly some issues to be worked out. She definitely has some insecurities or at least I think that's what they are. I've never seen a dog cache leftover food like she does. Maybe she didn't get fed regularly? She's a Barker although she's coming around with some correction. All I have to do is gently scold her and its humble city. I have never had such a sensitive dog so I'm being very patient. Its obvious to me she is very intelligent. I'll just have to pace myself and think ahead. I think she'll be worth it on the end.

Thanks again,

Scott

If she is a 'soft' dog, as you infer the barking can be easily solved by NOT giving her the attention ( positive or negative) that she is seeking. As soon as she is quiet and good, she gets all the love....Did that with the neighbor's Pitbull who has a voice like a foghorn...they thought it was magic...

Ingwe, please elaborate. How do I get her to stop unless I correct her? Do I wait her out and reward when she is quiet? That would indeed take patience as that's a large pet peeve of mine.

Yep, and it helps to immediately turn your back and start walking away when she barks...

I have had a a bunch of setters over the last 30 years. The one thing common among them was they all picked who they belong to. You can't change their mind about that either.

Barking is easy to control. Tell her you don't like it and she'll get over it. Every time she barks, go AAACK! and say no.

Start her self feeding and she'll regulate herself better than you could ever hope to.

Teach her heel and whoa. Teach her to come in when called. Teach her parlor tricks so she learns how to learn. Teach her to put her butt on the ground when you raise a fore finger. Use it as a prelude to something else. What else doesn't matter, what you are really teaching is compose yourself and pay attention, something else is coming. Doesn't matter if she gets a treat after, petted, a second command or something new.

Never let her cross a threshold until you tell her OK. Ever. You are in charge of her and you particularly do not want her to learn to bolt doors thinking she's in charge,

I never use a wing on a fishing pole. If something bad happens, and it can very quickly and easily, she'll associate it with feathers and bird scent. I use a little crumpled paper, and do it only once or twice to see if they will point when they are very young puppies. I don't care if they learn to blink a wad of paper.

Just wanted to update a little after a morning run. I went were I knew there would be some pheasants and simply took her out on a pleasurable stroll. Wow! This little dog has drive! She became a bird hunting fool. Covered ground well and got a few solid points as well as a few soft ones. She bumped some and pinned some. And I praised her like a fool .
All in all she hunted up five and bumped/flushed another five or six. It was an awesome sight. I carried a 22 and shot a few times on a flush here and there with nothing serious happening. I think I'll still play it safe with the gun but am encouraged so far.

All in all, a great morning. Especially since she patiently sat while my daughter and I deburred her.

Scott,

Sounds like you have a winner. IMO keep working with the .22 until you know that she doesn't pay any attention to it, then try a shotgun, from a distance. Obviously, it may take a second person.

I wish MILES58 would have provided more information on the negative effects of using a wing on a fishing pole. I trained 3 setters with the wing method and never had any issues, what so ever.

Good luck. They are great dogs.

donsm70

Sounds good!

Scott,

At a year and a half she is just the right age to train the average English or Llewellin Setter. They are just getting over the stupids about then and are relatively easy to train.

Use a soft hand with her. Setters are sensitive.

The dog can associate bad things with getting it's nose snapped by the line, getting a wing tip slap in the eye etc. They do not learn to point with that game. Either they point as they come from the factory or they don't. If you have to teach a dog to point you have the wrong dog. Like I said, all I use it for is maybe once early in their life to see if they point. If it does no good, and IMO that's the case, then why take a chance on something bad happening? You know it's a game, the dog knows it's a game. I also only believe in pen raised quail for steadying a dog up that will have to deal with birds stupid enough to walk under the dog to get some shade in a trial.

Scott,

A girl setter like you describe is a precious jewel...I have one very similar. You are a lucky man.

Richard Wolter's book on pointing dog training is old but still very relevant. A short and simple read covering the basics.

Don't get too hung up on whether or not she will tolerate gunfire. In a well-bred dog, the strong desire to hunt will outweigh the unpleasantness of the loud noise if birds are involved. My Scarlet hated gunfire the first time she heard it, 15 minutes later a ruffed grouse caught her nose, was shot over her, and she retrieved it. No stopping her after that!

Good luck!

+10 on the BlueDoe. They are a rare jewel. magnum Man

Some folks say it's a sight pointing versus scent pointing thing. I don't know as I don't do it.

They'll transition from sight pointing to scent pointing after a while. If they can see them, they also smell them.

They soon learn to lock up, just smelling the birds.

I started my Chesapeake by putting down his food and then firing a cap gun. That way the dog began to associate good things with loud noises. Of course, little did I know I could have fired off a howitzer and it wouldn't have fazed that dog.

I also cut apart shotgun shells and dump everything out. Then I just pop the primer while holding the shotgun. They learn to associate a pop from the shotgun with fun or goodies.

I've broken half a dozen gun-shy dogs this way, too. After a while just the sight of the gun gets them excited.

Easier and cheaper to take a fired shotgun hull and drill out the primer pocket with a 1/4" drill. You just slip in a primer by hand and after fireing, just tap the edge of the rim and the fired primer falls out.

I'll do that. It will save time and money. I'm working with a 2 1/2 Y/O rookie right now. She doesn't seem gun shy, but I want to work into the report of the gun softly.

She is very birdy with a lot of pointing instinct. Molly is a dog given back to me by a very good friend who learned of Ms. Scarlet's death; she is Scarlet's granddaughter and her clone. Molly was a backyard pet, but she is a dead-serious hunter...good instincts.

Thanks for the tip.

Just an update on this setter. Unfortunately she has definitely been made gun shy. I was disappointed but grateful I have all spring and summer to work it out of her.

Its frustrating that people don't take time and prevent gun shyness. I've never had a dog that suffered from it.

I have no doubt that you can work it out. Sounds like she has drive, so working the gun sounds around birds will be the way to go.

Well after a week and a half of work we have made a little progress. Not a ton, but some at least. Still working in pretty heavy cover with lots of birds toting a 22 rifle. This morning was the most promising. Eight or ten shots over the space of a few hours and many birds produced some notable progress. Like I said, still got a ways to go but am encouraged.

Other than this gun shyness she has been nothing but pleasurable. The vet gave her the once over and thinks she's three. Makes sense as she has more history than we first expected. She made the transition into our home easier than I would have thought. She's even been to 2nd grade show and tell.

Still getting used to the soft nature of these setters. Have had labs, gsp's, and heelers my entire life and this is definitely the most sensitive dog I've ever worked with. Coincidentally it's also my wife's favorite. In the past she couldn't have cared less about my hunting dogs. Now she cares a great deal about this one.

I took some pictures this morning and am going to try and get some posted just for kicks.

Thanks again for the help and encouragement.

Scott

Luv2 safari very pleased for you. must of seemed like xmas and winning the lottery when the new dog showed up. best of luck . Magnum Man

Thanks Much, Magnum!

Molly is a typical setter and just tried to be my lap dog a second ago, as I was paying too much attention to the keyboard and not nearly enough to her belly.

That sounds very familiar.

You poor man...

Yes, yes it does. Happy belated birthday to the "kids!"

Don't go from a 22 rifle to a shotgun. Go from a 22 rifle held just off the ground and fired and as she accepts it raise the barrel higher. From that go to a blank gun with crimps and. Crimps are a lot quieter than blanks. From there go to 22 blanks but fire them behind your back at first and then come around the front as she will allow. When you get to the shotgun, make sure she's off a ways first and use target loads.

Most are not born gun shy in fack most dog accept the gun with no problem. Dogs that are gun shy are generally made that way by the owner going to fast with the gun. A dog that come's shy from the factory is not really gun shy but rather timid to a fault. Not much help for those.

Side note about firing a 22 blank gun, don't fire it inside your pocket. Watched a guy do that once and it caught his jacket on fire. Funny as hell!