Something I have always wondered about and never read about is, how about the landowner?

Now over here I own my own place, I can go hunting on it anytime I want in season. I have to have a hunting license from the state but it does not cost as much as a regular license if I only hunt on my own land.

I don't know of any state that doesn't have some sort of landowner provisions more or less like that.

How about over in you boys part of the world. I know each country is different but just for instance.

Let's say I own a 300 acre (how ever many hectares that is ) farm and I grow wheat and potatoes and run some cattle. There are rabbits and some kind of deer and hogs that live on the place or come there to eat my crops. Let's say I live in Germany or France.

Can I take my gun and go out and shoot one and take it home and eat it given proper license, season etc just like over here or is it way different?

Thanks for your time

BCR

Not so much different, just need enough property. About 190 acre says the federal law. State law may be higher but not lower than that. With enough property, and all licences you may hunt your land.

In reality it is more complicated.

A bit easier in South Belgium:

- Living north of the Sambre River and Meuse River line: you need to own 62 acres (one piece ground not seperated by a railroad, speedway, ...)
- Living south of that line: you need to own 124 acres.
- With no more than 2.5 acres water (river, lakes, ...): you may hunt ducks

(With less area owned, you may shoot some species, like Wild Boar f.e., if you're granted a special destruction authorization).

Exception: natural preserves and possibly "natura 2000" areas with hunting restrictions that could have been settled on your ground.

Thanks guys. I just never have seen hunting for the common folks that own land adressed and wondered about it.

I do imagine it does get more complicated than it sounds.

Grand do I understand you to say that somebody, the government? can come in and say something like "We are protecting the blue footed Albanian aardvark and you can't hunt anything on ground you own?

Around here it may be illegal to hunt a certain species of something but anything else is fair game on your own ground.


BCR

It does get a little more complicated over here (UK).

Just because you own the "land" doesn`t mean you own the "shooting rights" or "fishing rights" if you have water!!.In most cases they come together, should you buy land you may have to pay extra for the shooting or fishing rights but this will be looked at by the solicitor,but yes in general they go hand in hand.

To BCR: Natura 2000 areas (designed to protect "habitats" in execution of UE Directives) are defined by the Government no matter who owns them, depending only the nature of the land and species who live there. In such areas the Governement defines specific protection and restauration measures. In some cases those measures could mean restrictions in hunting (about hunting techniques, land management, feeding, species, ...).

Thanks again guys. grand, I think I understand a bit more now. Kind of the same with our endangered species deals. They only have effect on whatever they happen to think they needs to be protecting but in some cases you can't cut trees or construct artificial ponds or such if the target species happens to live where you do.

UKdave, I can understand what you say in light of our separation of surface estate and mineral estate. You can own surface but might not own any or only partial mineral rights to a piece of land. Never heard of hunting/fishing rights being held separate from surface though. Could happen I guess but I never have heard of it.

BCR

There are endangered species and there are protected species. There are very few birds animals that can be "legally" shot or hunted on any property in Texas and I would presume the U.S.

In Texas, English Sparrows, Rock Doves (Pigeons), and Starlings are the only birds that may be killed out side of those for which special seasons are provided. There are depredation permits which can be obtained from the State under certain conditions to remove certain animals if they are causing damage. Others can be killed because they are a nuisance or have the potential for damage or the spread of disease.

Feral Hogs are not classified as a game animal but a hunting license is still required to shoot them, even on your own property.

In the case of the Golden Cheeked Warbler, which is what I think you are referring to as not being able to cut trees on your own land. Well, I know people who live where the Warbler lives and they do just fine cutting trees and leaving some for the Warblers. You work with the state to accommodate and they will work with you. There are some high powered bird watchers who pay good money to "observe" those little birds too.

I understand what you are saying. I have heard (live with) the argument, but the fact is that the property belongs to the individual and the game (animals) belongs to the State. There are exceptions of course with high fenced properties being the most prevalent among those.

You can't "legally" just start shooting or "hunting" anything just because it's on your property. I just don't want our European Brothers in Arms to get the wrong impression.

Alan

Thanks for that Alan. Things that you and I understand fully someone else may not because they have a different understanding. I forget that sometimes. Just as I don't understand some things I read here about Europe because I was brought up in and have a different understanding.

BCR

In Germany the landowner owns the animals. When you hunt and take something like a roe buck or a pig the meat belongs to the landowner. You get the hide, the head, the heart, liver, and the kidneys. The landowner most of the time sells the meat to a butcher shop for resale. Hope this helps boggy. tom

No problema BCR. I forget myself all the time too. The systems are different and yet they accomplish the same thing. In many European instances the game itself belongs to the land owner and the the State places regulations on the landowner as to whether and what he can hunt or allow to be hunted. In America the Landowner controls the land and allows or does not allow access for hunting and that hunting is controlled by the state in the form of hunting licenses and tags purchased, seasons and bag limits. From what I have learned of English Hunting from our friend Herne on HA the hunting done in a mechanical method and the care and preservation of the meat is of paramount importance. He is in essence a meat hunter in a management situation oftentimes. There is obviously other type of hunting in the British Isles and the Continent as we are learning here.

My middle son visited Germany and The Czech Republic this past Summer and I asked him to inquire and find out what he could about the hunting there. He came back with very little and said that the people he met were somewhat reluctant to even talk about hunting. He did go camping with some friends in the CR but he said it was almost like a park compared to what he is used to in the way of wilderness camping. I only bring this up to exemplify my surprise #1 at the hesitation of some to discuss hunting and the seemingly impossibility of others to keep from talking about it (i.e. this forum.)

Again let me say how much I enjoy reading about European hunting and hunting in other places too. I suppose when I was younger my interests were with the animals which were hunted. As I have grown older my intrigue is in the manner they are hunted and the tradition and culture surrounding the activity.

I'm not long winded either.

Alan

Alan, In some of our countries, like Belgium, Wilderness camping is prohibited ... and in Countries like Belgium there are few people to understand anything about hunting and wild game.

In addition, according to my own (little) experience in hunting South Belgium, we do not really appreciate to consider hunting in our country as a businness (probably because there is no room enough to allow the local hunters to hunt if we sell hunts to tourists as a businness). We use to take parts in hunters societies (preferably with friends), that rent hunting grounds.

When we hunt we invite friends on our grounds and firends invite us on their. For folks like me, hunting is also a matter of friendship rather than money. Of course this doesn't mean hunts wouldn't be available for foreigners in Europe ... Lots of Belgian Hunters hunt abroad in Europe buying their hunts on the market, especially in Scotland and Poland. But this show you the differences in hunting philosophies you may encounter around here.

There you go, Tom. I do think that if I had paid the money and legally taken something I would sort of squint one eye and back up a step or two if all I got out of the deal was a tub of guts while everybody else tooted horns and waved flags.

What I mean about different understandings.


BCR

Around here: living game doesn't belong to anybody ("res nullius" in original Roman Law), killed game belong to the owner of the hunting right of the ground the game was killed on (hunting right may be rented apart of the land, landowners usually rent there hunting rights to hunters). Selling the meat, give it to associated hunters or to the guest whom killed the animal are as well possible options.

Ther is some legal difficulty / stupidity 'cause we are supposed not to share the meat from a big game: the game has to be delivered in one single piece.

grand veneur,

when I was stationed in belgium I did not research the hunting rules. Interesting to see the differences with germany. I took the training in germany to be able to hunt, but never did go hunting. tom

That is not correct.

In Germany. all game is free, owned by nobody.

To take ownership, you hunt it.

Law destiquishes:

Hunting rights - tied to the land (owner has the hunting rights).
Right-to-hunt - tied to qualification; signed over by owner to a person or a group or held self, IF ownwer is qualified.

In signing over the right to hunt, owner has all priveligies.
Example: You can hunt, but the meat is mine.

Like said before, practice complicates.

Your son or anybody visiting Germany stand low chance meeting a hunter - 300.000 hunters amongst 81.000.000 people.

Germans further are uneasy talking about hunting from a mixture of the following: culturally removed from the wilds (milk comes from the fridge), culturally removed from weaponary (military and police are mostly viewed like a guard dog you need but keep in the cage to release if needed. When everybody turns nice you can finally get rid of the guard dogs.) and the antics of the hunters community that do not to much help to close the gap (to much of a game guardian - telling people to stay out, type of thing).

We do have strong hunting and weapon laws. Good, this, as they ensure further hunting and shooting under such cultural balance.

As to the "seemingly impossibility" to keep other from talking about it, I am not sure I understand where you come from or get at - this is a hunting forum, a european one at that. You' d rather talk wallpaper or curtain colors?

It seems that we face the same problems ...



Where were you stationed ?

cmg, no offense intended. I talk hunting all the time, both on and off the forums. Fishing too. Woodworking too. To hell with wallpaper and curtains! It is indeed refreshing to find that Europeans hunt and love it. I really was beginning to think that hunting as a sport and a tradition did not exist in Europe. I knew Scotland and England had some but didn't know how it was faring on the Continent.

I'm Glad to see it is alive and well.

Alan

At SHAPE HQS near Mons.
tom

cmg,
no matter how you state it the meat/game still ends up belonging to the landowner. tom

Tom, sorry, but, no.

Landowner has all freedom - can lease out the right-to-hunt. When that is done, he can no longer hunt on his own land and the game taken belongs to the person or the group that leased the r-t-h.

No need to be cross about it - I certainly hate to be particular, but I think it neccessary here.

cmg,

I am not cross. I just remember what I was taught when I went to class for my jager breif )sorry about the spelling). tom

Well "Weidmannsheil" then. "J�gerbrief" on the wall, "Jagdschein" in the wallett. Did you get to hunt over here?

Weidmannsheil to you as well my friend,

After I did the training I just never had the time or the money, but I really treasure having it on the wall. tom

Boggy and others,

the J�gerbrief I refer to is the training I went thru to be able to hunt in Germany. American military personal were able to do a shorten version. Otherwise it would have required an apprenticeship period. Weidmannsheil translates to 'hunters luck'

cmg has anything changed on the training?

The vision of cmg is also good for French people in general who consider hunters as sort of pre historical men going to oblivion. But we stay fit and try to resist...
To pumpgun

i like "tuez les tous, Dieu reconnaitra les siens" but i think will be short of ammo!!!!!

well we will just have to reload more lol.

I have been along the southern coast of france before, very nice, The wife and I keep talking about going back. Wouldb e nice to to the entire length all the way into Italy. tom

I you decide to do such send me a mail can have a meal and a drink or two. Know good places to see and bad places to bypass...
Dom

Seems its the same old same old no matter were you live a very very vocal few try to tell the rest how to live and what to do on every thing. Europe has its problems, just as we have in the states. Here in the States we take a lot for granted. They want us to drive lawn mowers now, At least in Germany, they fig. that if you are paying 6 bucks for a gallon of fuel at least you can enjoy driving the car, Ie BMW 535's or MB 320's or on of those Maybachs. Now there is a set of wheels. Never mind about the rifles and shotguns you make. One of the things on my Bucket list, is to tour the French Country Side. Eat drink and maybe shoot a couple of 'boar.

Hi gmsemel, if you want to tour the country side send me an e-mail and we can arrange a hunt or two if the season is open, could be roe deer stalking from first of june to august or wild boar and roe in driven hunt, or may be a mouflon all in wild free territories or woodcocks with setters and pointers. Will be happy to show you that France is more than Paris and that people could be nice and friendly with US citizens. You could also enjoy some good food and vines.
Dom