https://rt.com/usa/news/us-patriot-act-cloud-381/

They have been doing it for years. The CIA funded and operates a system called ECHELON which is a signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection and analysis network operated on behalf of the five states to the UKUSA Security Agreement (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, referred to by a number of abbreviations, including AUSCANNZUKU and Five Eyes.
It has also been described as the only software system which controls the download and dissemination of the intercept of commercial satellite trunk communications.The system Has the software controlling the collection of civilian telecommunications traffic conveyed using communication satellites. It also "kicks in" and monitors and "flags" telephone calls when certain "key words" are use, so If you just happened to mention "Semtex and Prince Harry's underpants,in a telephone conversation , it would "kick in" and monitor and store that conversation. It does this with internet traffic, so you can bet your bottom dollar, that GCHQ in Cheltnam and also Sugar Grove in West Virginia,will most likley be reading this.
They have ECHALON intercept and monitor stations at the Australian Defence Satellite Communications Station (Geraldton, Western Australia)
RAF Menwith Hill (Yorkshire, UK) (the largest Echelon facility in the world)
Misawa Air Base (Japan)US,
GCHQ Bude, (Cornwall, UK)
Pine Gap ,Alice Springs, Australia
Sugar Grove (West Virginia, US)
Yakima Training Center (Washington, US)
GCSB Waihopai (New Zealand)
GCSB Tangimoana (New Zealand)
CFS Leitrim (Ontario, Canada)
Teufelsberg (Berlin, Germany)US
RAF Ayios Nikolaos air base (Cyprus - UK)
Buckley Air Force Base (Aurora, Colorado, US)
Fort Gordon (Georgia, US)
Gander (Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada)
Guam (Pacific Ocean, US)
Kunia (Hawaii, US)
Lackland Air Force Base,San Antonio, US

WTF ????

Us is now doing worldwide spying ????? Are you kidding ????



Im' pretty sure our intelligence agencies have some good cooperation with yours.

The thing is all the stations that I mentioned above that arn't on US soil are manned by the US National Security Agency and
RAF Menwith Hill is manned by the US 451st Intelligence Squadron as well as the NSA.
So really the US Government doesn't trust its NATO allies to spy on themselves! The NSA's intelligence gathering is supposed to be limited to foreign communications, although domestic incidents such as the NSA warrantless surveillance controversy have occurred in the US.
These activities, especially the publicly acknowledged domestic telephone tapping and call database programs, have prompted questions about the extent of the NSA's activities and concerns about threats to privacy.
NSA monitors huge volumes of records of domestic emails and Internet searches as well as bank transfers, credit-card transactions and travel and telephone records World wide and also with in the US.

They have been doing this since before the NSA was founded. Same games different names. Everyone does it. More BS from our friends. If they aren't doing anything what do they have to hide?

It outrages me that Europeans are outraged by anything we do. If it wasn't for our money and blood, they would all be speaking German or Russian and it would serve them right. They're all a bunch ingrates.

So then paul375, what is your phone number so I can give you a call? I have a few things I'd like to discuss concerning certain people

London has the most intrusive on-street spying system going. With that being tolerated and even touted, why in the world would this bother you?

Happy Birthday GV!

So true...

Being filmed in the UK and having emails and Internet searches as well as bank transfers, credit-card transactions and travel activities and telephone calls monitored by the US government are diffent things. But they are doing the same to US citizens as well.

Imagine knowing all the dirty little secrets. Business would be so much easier

Pieter, we are going to end up on a long holiday at Guantanamo Bay!


Watch4bear,
Yep,in 1995 European aerospace company Airbus lost a $6 billion contract with Saudi Arabia after the US National Security Agency reported that Airbus officials had been bribing Saudi officials to secure the contract.

...

I am really greatful to the US for the war loan (with interest) it gave us that we finally paid off in 2006 (the last instalment was $83.25m)we couldn't of survived with out it. However if it wasn't for Hitler declaring war on the US in Dec 41' it wouldn't have entered the European and North African theatre as it did in 1942.

As for speaking German, I still think a lot of people in Europe still speak it!

It always amazes me when it needs to be restated that the Battle for Britain was won by the British and her allies long before the US entered the war. Thanks to you all who stood up to Hitler. It was only with the help of the US and others that the fight was finally taken to the Germans and only after Germany declared war on the US at the end of 41. Your entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
The Brits need not thank anyone for saving their asses from anyone. The world owes her a debt for standing alone at such a dark hr. saving a free foothold to launch D-Day in 44.

Paul and TZ, a lot of us don't consider the UK "european".
I personally, and I'm sure many others, am amazed and grateful for the courage and tenacity England showed before (and after) we got into the war.

Didn't realize y'all had paid off that loan. That is VERY impressive.

Makes me proud of my English heritage.

Regards,

Bob.

Thanks for the clarity Brasos.
I knew that but it is good to keep the record straight. I really should be the last guy to defend England as a Canadian who had an 18 year old uncle killed by the RAF while serving in the German Navy and of 4 of my Grandmothers brothers, 3 died at Stalingrad serving with the German 6th army.
Like I said everyone is entitled to their opinion just not their own facts.
(Canada lost 45000 servicemen in ww2, including more than 10000 in bomber command.)
Back to the topic what in the world are we going to do with the endless amounts of information being collected by both sides? Spying is a way of life for all governments.......especially of their own.
Congrats on the payback, how did such a socialistic country manage that?

Hi TZ,
My, Uncle was in the RCAF, he was born in Winniepeg. At the Age of 19 he flew in Wellington Bombers, then went on to fly with 550sqn on Lancasters,his war time log books are very harrowing. After the war he joined the RAF and was involved in the Berlin airlift. He was killed during the 50's on a routine op (on my Mothers birthday of all days!). His son ,my cousin live less than a mile away fro me.
As for loss in conflict, my family had a boat building bussiness on the River Humber. Most of males out of the family and also that worked for the bussiness that went to fight in between 1914-18 didn't come back.And the bussiness didn't survive. We really did lose a generation of decent hard workin men. My Grand father was one that did come back . he was wounded at Messines, very badly, but went back to fight in 1918. He always walked with a waddle a would never talk about what he went through. When I reserched his military records I found why.
I don't hold any form of animosity towards the German people for the loss of my family or for what my mother and Grand Mother had to go through during the 40's, being bombed every night.
Durin WW1 and WW2 the loss on both sides was horiffic, and as for winning the war , Britain didn't come close, we are still suffering from it, with over crowded run down housing that people were put in as a replacement for homes lost in the bombing and have never been replaced. Go to any town in the UK and you will see run down post war,austeriy housing estates.


Back to topic, I do object to the NSA spying on the people of the UK and the rest of the world, using ECHOLON, but then if we didn't use the internet and freely give info, then that would be half the problem gone. Its also the fact the US government is doing on UK soil with the support of the British government.

Paul,

The story I have heard is that the US routes certain domestic traffic over to the UK where it is intercepted by GCHQ.

GCHQ then send the recordings back to the interested Agency in the States.

Apparently this enables the Agency in the US to say hand on heart they don't intercept and listen to to domestic traffic and puts the actual monitoring ect in the hands of GCHQ and beyond US law..

Regards,

Peter

OK...Now I'm outraged!

All kidding aside, I don't blame you one bit for your anger and concern.

Hi Pete,
thats not the story thats coming out from people that have been involved with it. And as for the US government they don't have a great track record for "Hand on heart truth"!And nor does the British Government either!
All the Echelon locations in the in the UK,and world wide are run and operated by the NSA.
This is a BBC report from 1999.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/503224.stm

If any one is really interested in ECHELON , the read a book called "Chatter: Uncovering the Echelon Surveillance Network and the Secret World of Global Eavesdropping" by Patrick Radden Keefe.

Cheers,
Paul.

Well has anybody ever heard of Herbert O. Yardley and The Cipher Bureau aka The Black Chamber? Since 1919 we been intercepting and reading other peoples mail. The Washington Navel Conference was notable. There is a saying knowledge is power and the Truth will set you free. knowing intentions of whom you have to deal with either friend or foe is just plain common sense. The Cipher Bureau would become the NSA. The NSA deals with codes and code breaking and intercepting communications. They listen that is all they do listen. And in the age of cell phones sat links ECHELON , just tries to make sense of the chatter. From a water boarded suspect in Gitmo, they got a name, from a name they got him on his cell phone once they gotten that, they were able to locate him, and he lead them to a house in Pakistan and the Seals to go and take care of the nations business. People should know when to shut up that includes the President. Talk about a loud mouth. Water boarding OBL would have gotten a lot of good intel, on where the rest are, and who are there bankers, thus more targets to be taken out. And OBL could go feet first into a furnace. Or just hung. What a waste of a decade + of hard intel work.

Britain did not stand alone....the rest of the commonwealth were there as well.

I posted this in the campfire section a bit ago but this thread seems like a good place for it

http://www.bombsight.org/#15/51.5050/-0.0900

It's amazing the amount of bombs that fell on London during the blitz and that any of the original city survives today. You can use the pull-down to view different weeks or even enter an address.

On the issue of Britain's loan from the US, the money that was paid back in 06 was postwar money. I didn't know much about it and learned some interesting stuff in these two articles. Largely the loan could have been paid back but made business sense to string it out to 06. Note that significant sums were paid back to Canada as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6215847.stm

Love getting over there for work and pleasure and hope to share a pint or dram sometime with a member or two from the campfire. We are truly two nations that have much more in common than we do differences.

There is no doubt that Britain and it's Commonwealth partners own the victory in the BoB and US had minimal input (despite Hollywierd trying to day otherwise). What happened afterward though would have been very different if the US had not weighed in and started the Lend Lease and thus began the war on the U-Boats. If that had not happened I suspect that Britain would have died a slow death by supply strangulation and then who knows what would have happened.

On the original topic, there is far more misinformation in this thread than truth and it heartens me to see that tin foil sales in the UK will remain as strong as they do in the US.

And lots of Poles.

Paul...,

Not sure where your data came from , but for sure some of it is dated.
The Teufelsburg site was in the British Sector of Berlin. It was technically an RAF
Operation. Yes, there were Americans working there.

It is my understanding shortly after the wall came down the German government requested that facility to be closed and it was. In fact, an episode of the TV series Covert Affairs was filmed at the Teufelsburg site. It appeared to be in ruins an was referred to in the program as " a relic of Cold War paranoia"

O

God, I get SO [bleep] TIRED of the never-ending BS about who "won" WWII and the claims by some.

The British, Canadian and Australian/New Zealand nations decided to declare war on Nazi Germany because of Hitler's "Lebensraum" which violated an old treaty that England had signed with Poland almost a century prior to the outset of the war in Europe.

We were outnumbered, outgunned and not prepared, although the signs of the on-coming struggle were only TOO obvious for years prior to 1939. My maternal grandfather, a Canadian officer with the 21st.Batt. C.E.F., wounded at Courcelette, the final battle of the slaughter known as "The Somme" (420,00 Empire soldiers fell) and, very badly, at the epitome of battle horrors, a place called "Passchendaele", (440.000 fell) openly told my then teenaged mother circa his early death in 1938, due to his wounds, that the war was coming and he intended to volunteer,again and expected that men like him would form the nucleus of the senior field commanders. i.e. Colonels and Brigadiers.

Yet, the Empire/Commonwealth governments did NOT prepare and the US did not either, much like Canada in the past 40+ years due to the curse of "multicultural" and "liberal" governments. Soooo, when it started, we were in an unenviable position as my late father and uncles, ALL volunteers for "active overseas service" as THEIR fathers, etc, had done in 1914, often told me.

The Poles, while making a contribution, would NOT have been able to do so ahd not WE given them the war materiels, training and shelter in the UK they needed to participate. They did fairly well, in Normandy, against the ferocious "SS-Hitler Jugend", but, were losing until Canadians arrived, killed many of the Krauts and joined forces to win that engagement.

So, while the various minor participants helped, the reality of the situation is that WWII, was "won" by Brits, Canucks, Aussies, Kiwis and Yanks....and, while we were winning the "Battle of the Atlantic", the entry of the USA WAS the factor that largely decided the final outcome, as we of the Commonwealth did not have the manpower to successfully invade continental Yurp...and, the Krauts were superb, formidable soldiers, so, who knows?

I think that the Brits and the Krauts would have HAD to eventually come to some terms to end the slaughter, had the USA not entered the fray and THAT would have been a rather ugly situation. As it was, we should have attacked the Russkies at the surrender by Jodl and kept on going to the Pacific.

Funny, the only mention of Russia, is what should have been done after Germany's surrender. Wonder what would have happened to England if all the planes, tanks, soldiers, etc.. that were tied up by the Eastern Front had been available to fight them? The Russian front literally absorbed German armies and left them fighting the rest of us with one hand tied behind their back. JMHO

WE were giving the Russkies Spitfires, guns, ammo, etc, etc, BEFORE the US entry and right after Hitler invaded Russia, although the commies HAD BEEN our enemies when allied with the Nazis.

The major problem in the Nazi invasion of Russia, was NOT the fighting ability of the Russians, it was the lack of proper preparation by the Nazis, as Hitler would NOT listen to his generals and the Russian winter and being ordered to perform maneuvers that were suicidal in military terms by AH was the final straw.

The FACT is that WE stood, ALONE, against BOTH of these monsters for over two years, with AH and a year with both Stalin and AH and THAT set the tone of the war. We NEVER backed down, WE took our losses, 47.000 Canadian combat dead, alone, from a nation of 11.5 million and NOBODY managed to beat or intimidate us, even in the worst days of "The Blitz" or "The Battle of the Atlantic" ( in which two of my uncles served on Canadian warships, one badly injured).

Phuque the Russkies, they would have been exterminated were it not for us!

tangozulu, that sure is some interesting history your family has. Do you know any mnore about your family in the war?

The king has to know what is happening in his kingdom

All I have to say is Herbert O.Yardley about 90 years ago - this is not
New! As I recall Britain is very good at reading other people's mail !

Along with a number of American aviators, who transfered back into a
American command once we formally entered the war.

Still....those British. Damn!

At the beginning of the war, there were very few Americans who flew for the RAF, and I think there are only something like 6 who flew in the BB.

As I understand it, the problem was a legal one in that on signing up with the RAF, Americans would be required to swearh an oath of allegience to the UK/Queen and this would/could have jeoperdised their American citezenship. Later in the war, both American and British governments found ways around this issue, and eventually quite a few Americans served.

As with the other pilots of all the other nations that served and helped us in our darkest hour, their contribution and sacrifice is greatly appreciated.

It should be pointed out it is very likely Moscow would have fell had the Brits not had the Germans tied up in North Africa and the Greek army stopping the Italian invasion of Greece. This pushed back the launch of Barbarossa by several weeks and we all know what played out after that.

This is one of the most idiotic statements ever. Right up there with, "Let them look. I have nothing to hide." The slippery slope to losing your freedom forever.

And some of you still use "services" like facebook and twitter?

Back to the original issue. I do find this offensive, and this coming from a retired intelligence officer of 22 years...I understand the "game" and it is a game at the macro level. I cant speak to specifics as far as intelligence programs but I can speak from my personal experience in Afghanistan.

In 2002 I was the intelligence chief for a coalition special operations task force and a liaison with the German DSO (their special ops directorate). This was before the NATO task force and these countries were voluntarily fighting alongside US troops. I spent many hours working with and socialising with my German and other allied camrades. I would have found it very difficult to look them in the eye and know we were tapping their Chancellor's communications...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82701103/Analyst-Desktop-Binder-REDACTED

Pages 20-23 list key words and search terms that are monitored on social media and I would assume that includes phone conversation.

America actions don't surprise me at all, nor do they particularly offend me.. I don't think any country can say they are another's ally 100% come what may any more..

In the main forum I mentioned a story that in the late 1950's the CIA via MI6 and with British Government approval recruited RAF pilots to fly super sensitive U2 missions over the USSR. I can't imagine a closer degree of co-operation between our two countries. But at the same time the US was desperately trying to prevent the UK exporting jet engines on the grounds of national security and was applying considerable pressure to halt these sales. I don't believe for one minute the CIA were not spying on the UK on behalf of the US Government.. Conversely, I would expect MI6 was doing exactly the same for the British Government..

As Ally's, it would be done extremely discretely and very low key by both sides, but both countries had their own national interests at stake..

"Europeans outraged over US spying"

I'm not so outraged about watching our allies but I am out raged over electonic spying on American citizens without constraint or even motivation. It isn't as invasive as many presume but it stinks that polotical leadershio has gone so far with it as this administration has. Just think of our ho-hum "news" media would be if a Republican president was in charge of all this!

I was a civilian contractor helping to maintain and operate an NSA site in the southern Smokey Mountains for some 12 years (bureaucrats do nothing except shuffle paper and wave their hands for people who can do something to make things happen)and i know for a fact that what is now routine would NOT have happened AT ALL in those days! It was and remains illegal to do what they have been doing but now it's The One doing it and the media all HOPE they can CHANGE the dialog as they have the last five years.

The nuclear missiles on UK SSBNs say "Property of the United States Navy" on them.

That is a good measure of our bond.

Bugging Merkel was foolish though. The risk exceeded the reward I'm sure.

Love the WWII stories. My dad went in the US Army in 1943 and fought in the Pacific. Regarding the original intent of this post; what computer system does the NSA et al have in place that can monitor the enormous amount of traffic in real time? I'll look on EBAY for one.

Pretty spooky that zero could parlay, to the allieds enemies, all that info.