The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/07/23
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/07/23
great read i own a few model 70`s all with the claw extractor great bolt action to hunt with ! thanks for posting the article ,Pete53
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/07/23
Well written and researched.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/07/23
Not many writers as talented as WVZ...
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/07/23
That was a great write up. Enjoyed that one.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/07/23
Yeah Wayne is a great writer. He really did his homework with this piece. He and JB are my favorite gun scribes, probably because we have a very similar taste in guns!
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
Thanks for the link, I sure like my model 70's.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
Filmjunkie4ever: Thank you for that link - it was a pleasing and informative read.
Killed my first head of Big Game with a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fifty five (55!) years ago next month.
Yeah many great memories of mine for Big Game and Varmint Hunting include pre-64 Winchester Model 70's.
Long live The Riflemans Rifle!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Killed my first head of Big Game with a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fifty five (55!) years ago next month.
Yeah many great memories of mine for Big Game and Varmint Hunting include pre-64 Winchester Model 70's.
Long live The Riflemans Rifle!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
Originally Posted by handwerk
Thanks for the link, I sure like my model 70's.
Same here..
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
Enjoyed the read.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
Quote
On January 1, 1937, when the M70 was officially released, 2,238 rifles were boxed and ready to ship. List price: $61.25.
According to the CPI inflation calculator that's about $1328 today.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
Only rifle I've hunted with since 1975, accurate and dependable. Never had a problem with any of my M/70's.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/08/23
... in .270 WCF:
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/CMs8JG1p/WP-20190419-15-09-30-Pro-50-crop-R.jpg)
A poor boy's grail rifle.
GR
A poor boy's grail rifle.
GR
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/09/23
That piece must be pretty old, as he states they’re made in S.C. Now they’re “made”, assembled anyway, in Portugal, with parts sourced from who knows where. The barrel on my SS EW is a Bergara, so made in Spain (I think). Not sure about the other bits, and if you call and ask, there’s no guarantee you’ll get the correct answer. They do a good job of assembling them; mine is much better finished than a couple of N.H. Classics my sons had. The current list price for the EW is however, more than my Fieldcraft cost in 2017. Street price is $1400-$1600. That’s pretty sporty.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/09/23
Good historical M-70 article.
Years ago in Rifle magazine, I think- an author predicted that older hunters who owned early
pre-63 Model 70s would not be interested in later M-70s, even if they were cloned identical. I agree.
As a hunter more than a collector, I have 8 early M-70s and 2 M-54s.
No interest in the later Model 70s as memories of a 1965 rifle permanently cured me with a vaccine.
Winchester should have moved in 1963 to a semi-custom rifle with improved stockwork and checking, offered extras
including and above Super grades-charging more to cover the labor and materials. It would have put them
in competition with Weatherby rather than Remington-all IMHO.
Never listen to accountants or lawyers where quality rifles are at stake.
Years ago in Rifle magazine, I think- an author predicted that older hunters who owned early
pre-63 Model 70s would not be interested in later M-70s, even if they were cloned identical. I agree.
As a hunter more than a collector, I have 8 early M-70s and 2 M-54s.
No interest in the later Model 70s as memories of a 1965 rifle permanently cured me with a vaccine.
Winchester should have moved in 1963 to a semi-custom rifle with improved stockwork and checking, offered extras
including and above Super grades-charging more to cover the labor and materials. It would have put them
in competition with Weatherby rather than Remington-all IMHO.
Never listen to accountants or lawyers where quality rifles are at stake.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/10/23
Between 52-54 Winchester built 221 7M/M rifles, (had been discontinued in 49). Probably because of their rarity, these rifles were not rechambered often. In the early 50s there was a lot of interest in 7 mm magnum calibers, but the only one available was the Weatherby 7mm mag.
Introduced in 1953, the 7x61mm Sharpe & Hart Magnum belted cartridge (A.K.A. 7mm S&H Super[1]) was developed by Philip B. Sharpe and Richard (Dick) Hart. Some articles claim it was based on the .300 H&H Magnum case,[while others claim it was based on the 7x61 MAS M1907 case. There were many wildcat 7 mm mags being touted, but when Shultz and Larson from Denmark announced their new bolt rifle chambered for the 7x61, there was a lot of interest in America in the cartridge. Factory loaded ammunition was supplied by Norma of Sweden. The belted version of the 7x61 is also sometimes referred to as the 7mm S&H Super. The 7x61's commercial popularity was limited by competition from the 7mm Weatherby Magnum, a more powerful standard length 7mm Magnum that was already on the ground. When the Remington 7 Mag came out in 62, the fate was pretty much set for the 7x61 S&H. It is a slightly shorter case with a belt. Case length is 2.394 in., COL is 3.27 in. Here is a link to Terminal Ballistics Research data.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7x61+Sharpe++Hart.html
So in the early 50s, if you have a very nice M70 in 7M/M and you want to make it shoot faster using factory ammo, rechambering to the 7x61 S&H makes sense. One of the benefits of rechambering the 7M/M is that it had a twist rate of 8.75, while the 7 MM Weatherby, and the 7 MM Rem Mag. had a 12 or 10 twist. The owner of the original rifle was probably not thinking about heavy 7 mm bullets in the mid 50s, but it would seem such a rifle rechambered would turn out to be a real neat rifle to own today. It would stabilize the new long range high BC bullets available today.
Introduced in 1953, the 7x61mm Sharpe & Hart Magnum belted cartridge (A.K.A. 7mm S&H Super[1]) was developed by Philip B. Sharpe and Richard (Dick) Hart. Some articles claim it was based on the .300 H&H Magnum case,[while others claim it was based on the 7x61 MAS M1907 case. There were many wildcat 7 mm mags being touted, but when Shultz and Larson from Denmark announced their new bolt rifle chambered for the 7x61, there was a lot of interest in America in the cartridge. Factory loaded ammunition was supplied by Norma of Sweden. The belted version of the 7x61 is also sometimes referred to as the 7mm S&H Super. The 7x61's commercial popularity was limited by competition from the 7mm Weatherby Magnum, a more powerful standard length 7mm Magnum that was already on the ground. When the Remington 7 Mag came out in 62, the fate was pretty much set for the 7x61 S&H. It is a slightly shorter case with a belt. Case length is 2.394 in., COL is 3.27 in. Here is a link to Terminal Ballistics Research data.
https:/
So in the early 50s, if you have a very nice M70 in 7M/M and you want to make it shoot faster using factory ammo, rechambering to the 7x61 S&H makes sense. One of the benefits of rechambering the 7M/M is that it had a twist rate of 8.75, while the 7 MM Weatherby, and the 7 MM Rem Mag. had a 12 or 10 twist. The owner of the original rifle was probably not thinking about heavy 7 mm bullets in the mid 50s, but it would seem such a rifle rechambered would turn out to be a real neat rifle to own today. It would stabilize the new long range high BC bullets available today.
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/12/23
Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Filmjunkie4ever: Thank you for that link - it was a pleasing and informative read.
Killed my first head of Big Game with a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fifty five (55!) years ago next month.
Yeah many great memories of mine for Big Game and Varmint Hunting include pre-64 Winchester Model 70's.
Long live The Riflemans Rifle!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Killed my first head of Big Game with a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fifty five (55!) years ago next month.
Yeah many great memories of mine for Big Game and Varmint Hunting include pre-64 Winchester Model 70's.
Long live The Riflemans Rifle!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
I have only been hunting for about half as long as you. I killed my first few animals with Savage 99, Remington 700 and Ruger 77 rifles. Bought my first Model 70 at age 18, a Classic Stainless .30-06. It was the first gun I ever saw with a Walnut stock and Stainless Steel finish. It is my absolute favorite rifle. I just got my first Pre-64 Model 70 (also a .30-06) last spring. I.AM.HOOKED!
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/12/23
Originally Posted by letsrollbabe
Between 52-54 Winchester built 221 7M/M rifles, (had been discontinued in 49). Probably because of their rarity, these rifles were not rechambered often. In the early 50s there was a lot of interest in 7 mm magnum calibers, but the only one available was the Weatherby 7mm mag.
Introduced in 1953, the 7x61mm Sharpe & Hart Magnum belted cartridge (A.K.A. 7mm S&H Super[1]) was developed by Philip B. Sharpe and Richard (Dick) Hart. Some articles claim it was based on the .300 H&H Magnum case,[while others claim it was based on the 7x61 MAS M1907 case. There were many wildcat 7 mm mags being touted, but when Shultz and Larson from Denmark announced their new bolt rifle chambered for the 7x61, there was a lot of interest in America in the cartridge. Factory loaded ammunition was supplied by Norma of Sweden. The belted version of the 7x61 is also sometimes referred to as the 7mm S&H Super. The 7x61's commercial popularity was limited by competition from the 7mm Weatherby Magnum, a more powerful standard length 7mm Magnum that was already on the ground. When the Remington 7 Mag came out in 62, the fate was pretty much set for the 7x61 S&H. It is a slightly shorter case with a belt. Case length is 2.394 in., COL is 3.27 in. Here is a link to Terminal Ballistics Research data.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7x61+Sharpe++Hart.html
So in the early 50s, if you have a very nice M70 in 7M/M and you want to make it shoot faster using factory ammo, rechambering to the 7x61 S&H makes sense. One of the benefits of rechambering the 7M/M is that it had a twist rate of 8.75, while the 7 MM Weatherby, and the 7 MM Rem Mag. had a 12 or 10 twist. The owner of the original rifle was probably not thinking about heavy 7 mm bullets in the mid 50s, but it would seem such a rifle rechambered would turn out to be a real neat rifle to own today. It would stabilize the new long range high BC bullets available today.
Introduced in 1953, the 7x61mm Sharpe & Hart Magnum belted cartridge (A.K.A. 7mm S&H Super[1]) was developed by Philip B. Sharpe and Richard (Dick) Hart. Some articles claim it was based on the .300 H&H Magnum case,[while others claim it was based on the 7x61 MAS M1907 case. There were many wildcat 7 mm mags being touted, but when Shultz and Larson from Denmark announced their new bolt rifle chambered for the 7x61, there was a lot of interest in America in the cartridge. Factory loaded ammunition was supplied by Norma of Sweden. The belted version of the 7x61 is also sometimes referred to as the 7mm S&H Super. The 7x61's commercial popularity was limited by competition from the 7mm Weatherby Magnum, a more powerful standard length 7mm Magnum that was already on the ground. When the Remington 7 Mag came out in 62, the fate was pretty much set for the 7x61 S&H. It is a slightly shorter case with a belt. Case length is 2.394 in., COL is 3.27 in. Here is a link to Terminal Ballistics Research data.
https:/
So in the early 50s, if you have a very nice M70 in 7M/M and you want to make it shoot faster using factory ammo, rechambering to the 7x61 S&H makes sense. One of the benefits of rechambering the 7M/M is that it had a twist rate of 8.75, while the 7 MM Weatherby, and the 7 MM Rem Mag. had a 12 or 10 twist. The owner of the original rifle was probably not thinking about heavy 7 mm bullets in the mid 50s, but it would seem such a rifle rechambered would turn out to be a real neat rifle to own today. It would stabilize the new long range high BC bullets available today.
Uncle Hollis had an S&H rifle chambered for the 7x61 Magnum. He bought it in Canada back in the 60’s. Unfortunately it’s less than responsible heir was dating a gal who hocked it. D@mn her eyes.
That’s a cool rifle you have there!
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/13/23
I find it interesting that after almost 60 years "Pre-64" still carries some meaning with a few folks. No other commodity that I'm aware of has such a clean long lived break. Never really been a Winchester man, but I get the appeal, cousin (more like my second dad) had a pre-64 in.300 H&H and could shoot it as well - that is a hell of rifle. I have a 1959 vintage Model 12 gifted to me by my uncle, its also a very fine firearm. The machining on that is outstanding. I can easily see why the 870 was so much cheaper to produce (I have a few Wingmasters as well).
Re: The Rifleman’s Rifle - Wayne Van Zwoll - 09/14/23
Here is a pic comparing cases for 257 Wby, 7x61, and 270 Wby. The 7x61 has slightly less powder capacity, but still offers plenty of punch in the right rifle, especially one with a faster twist like 8.75.
