Hi Guy's

Wondering if I could get some info on this gun. I'm a Savage collector and don't know anything about Winchester's. While at camp last week one of the guy's pulled out his great grandfather's model 1886 in 38-56. Serial #95596. I've never even heard of a 38-56 calibre rifle. Any idea on age and or rarity of this model? It had an octagon barrel, crescent buttstock and a full length magazine. All original, blueing has turned plumb coloured. Overall great condition for it's age.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Looks like it was made in 1895, according to Proof House. http://www.proofhouse.com/

The 38-56 is about .375 caliber although groove diameters may run a little larger. It is a black powder round. Cases can be made by necking down 45-70 brass. 1886's in 38-56 are usually in the lower price range for 1886's. A fairly rough one sold at auction here a couple months ago for about $1300. The rifle was solid but the wood was battered and the bluing had all gone brown.

Thanks Guy's,

I wonder why the lower price for these, is it scarcity of rounds? I know he pay's about 4 bucks a round for the original black powder rounds. Anyway, he'd never sell it seeing how it was his great grandfathers gun. I sure would not want to lug it around the bush, it's one of the heaviest rifle's I've held.

I think the lower price is just because the 38-56 doesn't have the romance of the other cartridges it was chambered in. They are heavy!

Years ago I had an '86 in 38/56. It is a snap to form cases from 45/70 brass; works best if you use new Remingtons, at least it did then, because they were not cannelured. Any bullet, lead or jacketed, made for the 38/55 will work pretty well, although some bores tend to be a little oversize. This is one cartridge that can be formed without special forming dies, just the sizing die will work just fine with a little patience and some good case lube.

i have a .38/56 in both the Winchester M1886 and Marlin M1895. I load for both of them and shoot them. From a value perspective the .38/56 is one of the least valueable in both the Wincehster M1886 and the Marlin M1895. It's not a bad caliber but doesn't have much collector pizzazzzz

The 38-56 came out in 1887, answering a question that was never asked. Not an improvement on anything, but much as the Short Magnums of today, a way to produce another caliber to sell more guns. It was not more powerful than any other 1886 chamberings, quite the opposite, much like the 40-60 of the 1876 line-up.

It was never a desirable caliber, which made it just another cartridge in a pre-smokeless world. Today, it still suffers from an unenthusiastic acceptance, placing it on the least desirable list for the model 1886.

It still has plenty of potential for a deer cartridge and enough history and pedigree in an 1886 to make it still worthwhile to own and shoot.

The Winchester 1886 I have is also a 38-56 with a set trigger. And I would never take that low of a price for it. By the way I also collect Savage 99's

Fred

Pretty sure this one i own is worthwhile !!

That is gorgeous, and I'd be more than honored to own and gingerly hunt that rifle.

Gunner

Supposedly the Daltons carried 86's in 38-56 at Coffeville.

How did that work out for them?

Doc

Beautiful Rifle Don. Have you bloodyed that one?

No, that one don't get to go out and play, i hardly ever hunt with any rifle without a scope any more, old eyes and buck only hunting seasons.

That's a real gun. How about a picture of that Marlin carbine,
the real pretty one?

Because of this thread and the pic of Loggahs' beautiful rifle, I bought one today, put a Bud on the search a couple days ago, Man out in Wyo sent me pics and a price, i wired him the funds today.

I cant wait to get it.

Gunner

Never understood the lack of enthusiasm for the .38-56; it was popular in its day as a hunting cartridge. The factory .38-56 black powder round was more powerful than the black powder loadings of the .38-55, but the smokeless loading was really not much more powerful than the smokeless high power loadings of the .38-55.

The .38-56 started to lose popularity when the .38-55 came out in rifles that were a HECK of a lot more portable than any '86, such as the Win 1894, Savage 1899, and Marlin 1893, and could handle the hotter smokeless .38-55 loads.

Gunner, I hope ya got a good one,and i didn't cost ya a bunch of moolah! Lauren i don't think these Winchester guys want to see a lowly old Marlin! Don

Mesa, agreed 100%, a necked down 45-70 to .375 cal. sounds cool as heck to me, I'll be running the 265 gr Beartooth LFNGC's in mine sized to .380" and will be looking towards the slower burning powders to take up case volume that give lower pressures.

Loggah, my rifle is not a beautiful "Deluxe" like yours, it's bore is very good, action is smooth, no cracks or splits in any of the wood, no boogered screws either, and the metal has turned a soft patina grey.

Sights are original, the whole rifle is unaltered down to the crescent steel butt and was made in 1894.

And delivered to me for a good bit under 2K I think [hope] I made a descent deal.

Gunner

I got to laugh with you on that one!

For about 35 years the Big W brought out a .38 and .40 caliber to go along with each new .44/.45 case that they introduced, yet the performance of each load was so similar in each series that you wondered why they went to all the bother.

Agreed 30Gibbs, and on another note, I could give a flying squirrels fuzzy nutsack what collectors find romantic or desirable, if I like the rifle, I buy it, and I buy to keep, hunt, and shoot those fine old guns.

Gunner

Just like today, marketing, marketing, marketing. Some things never change.

the 38 40's were supposedly a little snappier than the 44 40's.

I think the main reason .38-40s persisted is that they managed to make the barrels very consistent, unlike the .44-40 whose dimensions wander all over the place. The same thing seems to be true of .38-40 and .44-40 revolvers. This issue became even more important when the switch to smokeless powder occurred.

Ive had .44-40 Wins that had from .426 to .432 bores, but all the .38-40s I've had were .400-.401. Colts AND Winchesters.

Amazing!! Can I come to your house & pose for a picture with that gun?

My 1886 is nice but it's not THAT nice.

Long ride for a picture !!!! there is a few more in 38-56 these cabinets! Don

Loggah,

When ever I see pics of your rifles, I always think New Hampshire is not really that far from Montana. I bet Loggah would let me visit the Mecca of Leverguns.

Always appreciate you posting pictures!

Dang right Henry, too bad I dont have any more business trips up to Concord, I'd have to try and finaggle an invite to see Loggahs guns.

Gunner

I got a few friends in Montana, Actually theres a 30" barrel 45-90 in there that came out of Montana. i'm just about 1 hr. north of Concord. Don

That 30" 45-90 sounds sweet, were I to show for a visit, I'd have to wrap a toe-sack around my neck to try and contain all the drool.

Gunner