Mine is a .32 special. It came out of western North Dakota and obviously spent most of its life as a using cowboy gun. If you look at guns as books, safe queens are very thin books - pamphlets if you will. Guns like this one are akin to the thickest books out there - with many thick chapters.

I'm not happy with the photos as the sunlight is strong and harsh. The carbine looks at lot more mellow in the flesh. I find the condition amazing. Aside from the character, this piece was well-cared for. The bore is excellent, action tight and my no-go gauge will not close on the chamber. No alterations such as swivel holes, tap holes, splices in the stock etc. I am amazed a carbine could see that much obvious use yet the wood fits perfectly everywhere with no splinters at the tangs and it is not undersize at the tangs. There is a bit of shrinkage at the bottom of the buttplate. Given shrinkage I've seen on other rifles at the tangs, I am amazed this carbine shows none.

They say these vintage guns were used often used like tools. And when I think of the Colt SAA's I've seen that saw obvious use as hammers to pound nails, I know some pieces saw very hard use. However, I believe there was variability and I'm confident the cowboy that used this carbine did not use his revolver to pound nails into fence posts.

Being in the presence of this carbine, one has the sense it is vibrantly alive:







Kind of a fun bonus that it is fitted with the .32 special sight - adds a dash of uniqueness.

This is one of a few I have that has been around well over 100 years. It is a Winchester 1886 in 40-65. It is marked Browning Bros, Ogden U.T. It is a second year gun being made in 1887 and sold by John Browning from his own gun store in Ogden. The U.T. stands for Utah Territory as Utah wasn't yet a state.

It is a unique gun in that respect that John Browning not only designed the gun, he actually held this thing and sold it from his store. It is also a rare version of the 1886 in that it has a single set trigger...

It's hard to compete with you old timers, but I'll give it my best shot. Does it have to be a lever gun????



The best I can do:


1937 long tang deluxe 71... Speaking of "cowboy guns", this one has a lot of wear on the other side of the barrel and magazine tube where it rubbed inside a scabbard. I'd still like to figure out which ranch used the triangle in the butt stock for identification????

BSA - I remember when you bought that .348 - perfect hunter. Neat that is is an early gun, a deluxe, bolt peep, original swivels. Ready for anything on this continent!

Yep, I carried it during elk season and it just feels right in the hands. I really like the rifle and it's a joy to shoot. The old levers with a certain amount of patina and wear have so much cool factor. If they could only tell us where they have been and the things they've seen. Your old lever rifle is one that has been there and done it too. Kind of like those old loading sets that you rarely run across. When I have those in my hands, I can almost see the old cowboys sitting in camp loading up their ammo. I ran across one in 32 Winchester the other day and 30 WCF and kick myself in the azz for not buying them

How many of you guys (besides shrapnel) used these back in the day:
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/winchester-50-110-reloading-tool.htm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Winchester-1894-Reloading-Tool-38-72-wcf-/191146426532

Shotgun or rifle? v best winpoor

Whatever you want to show but my suggestion would be to show both

My kind of thread!!! No prissy Winchester collectors allowed

couple of winnies here.
will submit so I can see them and comment

That's just F..ing cool !!!

Gramp's 1906

Here is one of my all time favorite rifles. It's an old Winchester high wall in .219 Improved Zipper. It was smithed by the late Floyd Butler of Poultney, VT. The stock is well done with checkering and the Butler flourishes. The barrel is 26" long and most likely a Buhmiller. Floyd told me that was his favorite barrel maker. The barrels twist is 1-16" as the original chamber was the R-2 Lovell. I shot many woodchucks with that rifle while walking the green fields. Most of the shots were from prone or sitting using that marksman's sling. The scope is a Lyman 10X Supertargetspot.

The bullet is the 50 gr Sierra over 4064 for 3,600 fps.



The picture below illustrates some of Floyd Butlers work on another rifle stock that's similar to my High Wall.

I love High Walls and I love checkpiece stocks. The flourishes on your stock are interesting. Sounds like you have a lot of very pleasant history with that rifle

Ok - the pump .22 - M1890 or M62?

And the .351 - kill anything with it?

Kill anything with that .375 Bigbore?

Yeah. I need a cigarette now!

Boltman, 1890 or 62 you can't tell? Its an 1890 by the wood, and receiver.

That is slick.

I'd pick my .270 fwt as I'm still working on "character building" of my other rifles.

Old eyes combined with a somewhat fuzzy picture is not ideal I do see it now that I strain my eyes a bit.

It would have to be this '73 SRC. It came out of the Yukon Territory. I bought it, and an 1866, from a fellow that had served in the Yukon with the Canadian Weather Service.



It's an 1883 vintage and in amazing shape for 130 years old. It still gets to the range on occasion to bust a couple 44 WCF's. Unfortunately, the '66 got peddled a number of years back in a moment of weakness.
yooper

Oh yeah! That one is very pleasing to the eye Gorgeous ring shadow. The departure of the '66 - that's a sad event that you will no doubt never forget.

Yooper's posting of his '73 SRC inspired me to post pictures of an, "old soldier" '73 I have. This one is not light on character and like the other pieces listed on this thread, surely has some rich stories to tell. It was originally ordered with full nickel plate, which surely is a story in itself. Relatively few rifles were ordered with plated finishes and when it was done, this purchaser had his sights set on a special rifle. What his motivation was, remains a mystery. I don't think he was a, "dandy" as the rifle clearly saw plenty of use. I would love to have had a conversation with the guy who ordered and used this carbine. A loooooong conversation






[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albu...ters1873nickelplateleftcropped.jpg[/img]

savage 99, You must show us some more shots of that gun, I have always wanted an old highwall single shot and the zipper has been high on the bucketlist for many ,many years! What a combo! very best WinPoor

Recall there was a pre-64 M70 in .219 Zipper that sold at auction recently

Ill bet it sold high as a pussy cat on a Ferris wheel! v best winpoor

It sold for $6500... no letter though

Edit - the M70 carbine in .219 Zipper sold for $6500; they also had a rifle in .219 that sold for $2750. That didn't have a letter either

1890
circa 1906 wrf
the 375 I used for 10 deer 2 elk and one black bear
just got the 351 running and will use it this year. I can get within 50 yards of the whitetail here so it will work. ballistics like a 357.
amazingly accurate.
the 67-a I have had since I was 9 years old
the 60 is just a sweetheart
almost forgot the m70
it shoots .235 three shot groups with 180's and close to that with 150's think i'll keep it.

gramps had taste.

be still my beating heart! I'm in love, might be lust, No its love!

There was also a M70 32 WS carbine in the auction....only time that I've ever heard of these chamberings in a 70 and both show up at the same auction with a lot of other rare 'professionally refinished' guns....what is the chance that these rifles were factory originals?

And a .25/35 too!

In my opinion there is a chance these chamberings were original but that chance is very low.

If, as someone else suggested, the original stamping dies made their way out of the factory at some point in the past, the stamps used on the .219, .25/35 and .32 special M70 barrels were the caliber stamps that had been used on M94's, M64's and M55's back in the day.

Edit (add)

By the way, RIA's rational for the legitimacy of most of these rare and odd chamberings seemed weak to me. They reference Dean Whitaker's work and note:

"The Model 70 was a very popular rifle with many custom variations having been manufactured. Whitaker notes that "the versatility of the rifle gave rise to many factory-sponsored or factory-sanctioned experimental chamberings and configurations." Factory records are, as Whitaker states, "rather scanty or, in some cases, non-existent." Even today there could still be undocumented variations of the Model 70."

So, the legitimacy is ... that they could have been chambered thusly. I love the part alluding that there could even be more coming. If that's the case, I want one in .22 Savage High Power!

So, the word of the day is, "could."

Very meager BUT !

This is the gun that started it all for me, It is family story that the whole family talked it over before it was bought at Hand Trading Co. Pelham GA in the mid 30's for seven dollars and change by my Great Grandfather, I do know it taught 3 or 4 generations to shoot and shoot very well, I cannot fill my Dads shoes and I am considered a better than avg shot in my part of the world. I know the gun has butchered untold number of hogs and steers. like wise on rattlesnakes both eastern and canebreak, frogs rats, any varmint known to SW GA including chicken stealing hawks, At one time I shot rabbits on the run with the gun, I could not now with my eyes for a cool grand! My favorite Christmas present was a brick of yellow box super X LR HP's, the hardware store was out one year and I got a brick of mark 3 or 4 match ammo, I was disappointed till I learned that the river squirrels did not hear the subsonic ammo so well and came out to play much quicker.Only the good Lord knows how many hours I spent on the Flint River with a bulldog,pocket of .22's and a bird vest full of squirrel and this gun, I walked over 3 miles carrying a 24 lb coon for the farm help. Old Jim Dandy was happy as a new wed man over that coon and sweet potatoes.The gun is so worn out that you have to keep pressure on bolt with thumb to shoot. This is top of heap on character for me! very best WinPoor

That is a family heirloom! It is an example of a gun that doesn't need to talk as the oral history of it is carried forward generation to generation. It makes me feel ill when on occasion, a new member here will have just inherited a rifle like that has been in their family for generations and their main question is what is it worth and where can I sell it. The advice here is usually the strong suggestion they not sell the rifle and save it for someone in the family that will appreciate it.

In my family, there was a M86 .45/90 that my grandfather and great uncles used. I may have seen the rifle when I was very small - I don't remember. But I do recall my grandmother talking about the rifle years later. She would be cooking all day for the hunters and listening for shots. She told me, "I could always tell when the .45/90 off." My experience of her telling me about all the times she heard that gun go off are great memories. I tried to find that rifle and understand one of my great uncles's grandchildren have it. I'm envious but glad it stayed in the family. My uncle told me it was a round barrel, half magazine rifle. It's likely no coincidence that in my safe, there is a round barrel, half magazine .45/90 rifle. This rifle gets shot by me more than '86 I own:

That is a NICE M86.

That's some gorgeous tiger-stripe on that bad boy. Is that 2X or 3X or did somebody just get lucky?
yooper

Winchester 1876 Deluxe in 40-60. A puny round in a large gun. Not really a moose cartridge, but it worked on this one...

Another NICE lever action,Thanks Shrapnel. And a good bull moose too!

A lot of neat old rifles with tons of character coming out of the woodwork here on this thread.

this gem has history. in 1911 or there abouts a stage stop owner in California supposedly caught his wife and the cook cooking something besides supper. the legend goes that said owner shot wife and shot at cook. must have liked the cook better than his wife, said cook departed for south America or somewhere safer and wife got buried. murder weapon never recovered until 1968 when it was found up the chimney tucked onto the smoke shelf.
we played in the stables and the inn when I was growing up and always imagined we could see the blood in the bedroom. its a 45-60 and there is still a round in the chamber. have had it since discovery.

Now that is a story!

Quite the conversation piece.

Now THAT'S character! You get my vote for winning.
yooper

one time when I was about 12, a lady came to the house and said she had been the maid at the stage stop. the owner of the place was a hop head according to he and she took my sister and me down the creek, showed us a burned down cabin that he used to get high in. along the creek she dug up a plant that we had no ides what it was, she said it was from his garden. always wondered how she knew about it if it was a secret. she confirmed the story about the shooting though I have never found any thing in records of Fresno Flats as it was called then.

Here is my 1886 in 40-82, 1890 vintage according to my Cody letter.


While not as notable as Deerstalkers provenance, allegedly mine was used in a shooting here in New Mexico. The letter I have from the previous owner states that allegedly in 1929 a fight broke out at a local wedding in Dixon New Mexico, apparently the 2 families involved in the fight had a number of altercations over the years.In this case the fight escalated into gunplay resulting in one man dead and 2 others wounded, as the story goes the Winnie was one of the guns used. I've done a little research but have yet to confirm, but it makes a good story anyway. She's been carried afield a few times but has yet to make meat.

My other Winie is a 1913 vintage 1897. No story here, but I did load up some brass cases with the one true and holy powder (in this case Goex 2F) and a duplex load of #4 & #6 shot. We then headed up near Folsom NM for a turkey hunt with my buddy. She worked just fine on this old boy!

makes you wonder how many of these old guns are really blooded?
fine weapons you have there. i'll take some thing with character any day over a safe queen. nice turk too.

Thanks, I agree. I have nothing against those looking for collectible, pristine safe queens. But, my interest is in character and using them now and again. As so many others have said, if only they could talk! If only my ancestors were interested in hunting and shooting, with goodies left for the generations to follow and stories accompanying them. My intent is to leave these and others behind for my sons once I'm resting inside a Arbuckles can on the fireplace mantle!

Definitely not in the same league as these other Winchesters, but this one (a .270 standard grade from '52) has some character. I found it sitting in a rack full of plastic-stocked Remingtons and Savages and had to save it. It's battered, but I like it. Bore is pristine; I added my favorite scope and mounts (Lyman 4X in '50's era Redfield rings and a Jr base) and it was ready. Trigger is OK (clean 4 lbs) and I haven't touched the bedding. It shoots 130 grain Remington Core-Lokts and Winchester Power Points quite well.
Bob

RGK, no fly's on that one. I'd grab it anyday. if you shoot groups with it sitting like the picture, you/it are amazing.
trade a slightly used 76 45-60 for it and shooting lessons.lol

I like safe queens as well as any man but working or retired working guns float my boat. seems like you can feel the experience they have when you hold them.

Actually, in the spirit of full disclosure, the group was shot from the bench, 100 yds. The guy shooting from the sit is my Army buddy, John Buol, former All-Army shooting champion, shooting a 5-shot string at 200 yards. He wondered why anyone would want more than a 4X after shooting a nice, 3.5" 5-shot group, with a tight sling. M70S are definitely ultimate.
Bob

3.5/5 at 200 sitting tight sling I can see why he was champion. helps to have a fine weapon too.

All three of the Winchester's have character, especially the circa 1937 Model 71 that my Dad set up for hunting use before there was a "pre 64" moniker, still will drop Michigan Elk (2012) where they stand. The 1939 model 12, 16 gauge and the 1926 model 97 still drop (2009) South Dakota Ringnecks. These are all Winchesters as they were meant to be, used!

Nothing like taking grouse with a Winchester 1873 SRC in 38-40...

Win 71 - neat pictures - fun to see these old rifles doing what they were sold to do.

Shrap - I suppose the .38/40 is the preferred grouse cartridge with the .44/40 being overkill

shrapnel, if I thought I would out live I'd ask if you could will me that 73 and the MG to haul it around in. both are gems.

Heres an odd one with a little character. Winchester 1876 saddle ring carbine in 45-75 caliber, the odd part is the barrel is 1 1/2" longer then standard,and comes with a winchester bayonet. Winchester made a order of just under 220 of these,but there is no mention in my factory letter who they were made for. Don

Don - fabulous!

I agree is has a little character but it sure seems to have a lot of collectability!

Intriguing too - who ordered them??

Don, would that be considered a musket? a musket carbine? have never seen that before.

duh! 220 made of course I haven't!

No mention in the records who ordered them, and the 1876 carbines all had full length stocks.Tom Selleck used one of his own 1876 carbines in the movie crossfire trail. The 1876 models were known as "Centennial" models. I have never shot anything with it ,but with attached bayonet ,it would make a good pig gun !!

you mean you are going to Washington DC? good hunting no bag limit.( meds kicked in and feeling foolish)

There should be a "SEASON" !!!!!

Interesting how some of these, "non-collector" threads have brought out some very, "collectible" rifles

Here is a rare '73. It isn't often you find a 22 long in an 1873, it is just more rare to find one with a shiny bore and this is one...

Kirk - nice piece. Yeah, a shiny bore in a .22 that old is rarity. I know you've hunted with it too. Funny - when I was growing up we would often buy longs because they were a little less expensive. I recall my grandfather admonishing me for buying long rifles as they were needlessly powerful. Even before the current short of .22, longs were not easy to find.

Try $100.00/500 rounds, if you can find them...

Were they that high before the current panic mode? I had a M62A that is chambered for shorts only. That's been an expensive one to feed for a while.

Shorts aren't as bad as longs. You can still find shorts much easier too. I am sure the current 22 market has driven those prices up, but if you want to shoot, you pay or don't shoot...

A hundred bucks ain't so bad to be able to shoot a rifle 500 times. That's a lot of squirrels, etc.

Pi$$ poor pic, but this '73 was given to me by a ranching family for some work. I gave it back, just didn't seem right to go home with me, but got some pics first.

Weaselrus -

That carbine is a strong contender for most character

That's the pretty side! Another rancher/lion hunter has a '94, the buttstock is "dished out" from rubbing against trees in a scabbard while chasing cats.

This is one I customized a few years ago...

Kirk - if I recall, this process also resulted in the emergence of your new name? However, my dim memory tells me it was a M1873 Winchester that renamed you? I do recall the powder was Unique.

Nope, it was an 1876 in 45-60 with single set trigger and a 28 inch barrel, both special options. The powder was too much Accurate 5744...

make a man cry!

And just when I was thinking (after building myself up to it for about 20 years) about maybe shooting my '76 in .45/60...

Kirk - how damaged was the receiver? I can't see any obvious damage in the photo.

My 'second best' as per character, it was my work gun on a 12,500 acre cattle operation, gun got shot every day, I should write a book on the fun and heartbreak I have had with the gun! St Joe Paper bought my ammo by the brick, all was yellow box superX ammo except one time the hardware store got me a brick of green and white Rem ammo. It shot just as well if not better. I think I had to make 2 clicks down as the ammo shot a tad high!

I am adding an extra photo just for Mr BSA,

very best guys PS the gun is a 'poor mans 70' a mod 43 in 218bee. WinPoor

I suspect there are ten things in the lower picture Mr. BSA will very much like

Another myth busted about the strength of the toggle links and 1873 and 1876 rifles. That barrel blew into two pieces and split the barrel down the center where the remaining barrel was still left in the receiver.

The toggles held and the bolt didn't come backwards out of the action. Everyone says how weak these actions are and yet this one held under this experiment.

I used to have a copy of the U.S. Government's study they did in the latter part of the 19th century when they tried to blow up model 1876's. They found the action to be plenty strong, but everyone knows of at least one that has failed, but these same people haven't actually seen this happen...

Kirk - very interesting. I guess I had just assumed the mantra of the weakness of the toggle-link action was true. Your '76 sure suggests otherwise. I assume the action was salvageable?

Geez, it's getting deep in here. I'm going to go and load some ammo and shoot my new 270

Ok, this rifle belongs to wifey. 30 US Army. Mfg in 1904. 28" bbl. Due to her current heAlth situation she told me I could have it. As she know just how much I appreciated this old war horse! I just feel real bad just taking it. I have no issue using it. Just feel funny sayin' it's mine. It's a classic old gal and the bore is pretty decent. Oldest son did pop a running buck with it several years ago. It's a possible contender for the elk camp this year !



She's definitely not a closet queen. And I would not be afraid packing her out! Lots of character and hardly any finish! A workin' rifle!

25-35 will work on turkeys as well as grizzly bears...

Did she hunt with it?

So... 60 grain bullet for turkey and the big 117 grain for grizzly?

No she never got the chance to. She generally used her savage 99 F in .243 or her old model 88 Winchester in .308. That 88 was the rifle she used exactly one month after open heart surgery to bust a monster hog off back porch of the house here.

However, a family member of mine has an exotic game ranch in the hill country. She has said that there is a cross(?) red deer/ elk bull on the place with her name on it. I've seen the critter and he's wild as a March hare. So it's not that much of a "canned" hunt. She's said if she hunts it will be with the 88.. But I bet I can talk her into using the old girl. She also has one of the new 95 Win. in 30/06 she never got to use. That's also an option!

I hope her health improves and she is able to go after that bull - whatever it is. It's not every guy with a wife with a parallel rifle collection

Thanks, Boltman! She always had a love for lever guns. ( Her fav TV show as a girl was Chuck Conners in The Rifleman). And started to Invest in the ones she liked. Then cancer and her heart failure kicked in. Young son ended up with her 94 eastern carbine. (Mfg 1963). 30-30.
So far she hasn't gotten rid of any more long guns. But I fear she with soon start to get rid of a lot of her small vintage auto pistols.

Did she ever own a '92 carbine? It sounds like Lucas McCain made a strong impression on her. Again, I hope her health improves. Is she receiving active treatment? Please let her know we are pulling for her!

Kinda. Before she got congestive heart failure (over 20 years ago) she had one of the old Browning B92's in 44 Mag. It was later converted into hospital bills. She never really found another "real" 92 she liked. She had a rather eclectic collection of lever guns. She bought what she liked.

Great thread. I love these old rifles.

Eric

One 117 grain through the brain...

definitely one of my favorites. always looking for one. just wish they could tell their stories.

Shrapnel, Is that one of those Merriam (sp?) turkeys? Ive killed an Osceola and it had a lot of white in the feather tips but nothing like your turkey. very best WinPoor

Kaywoodie, Tell your wife an ole GA Boy is pulling for the both of you. Feb 6 ended an 8 month battle with that old Big C. Can be as tough on the caregiver as patient and my wife was strong as a horse . very best to the both of you

Yup, it is Merriam's here in Montana. Another one with an 1886 in 40-65...

Thanks winpoor! She's a tough one!

Shrapnel! That bear is awesome! Just goes to show you bullet placement is the secret!

this old 1907 in 351 win sl I bought at a flea market for 35 dollars. didn't know it at the time but It was missing the firing pin. also some bubba had taken a Dremel with a rough stone to the entire surface to remove rust I suppose.
cleaned it up, reblued,got a firing pin, and a new forearm.
the original forearms are super thin and crack length wise something fierce. any hoo I got her up and running and it will put 5 in 1.5 at fifty. almost as fun as what I used to remember!

kaywoodie and winchesterpoor, May God be with you both. BTDT

Not the greatest photo, but you get the idea.

This one came off a ranch used by a cowboy who was left eye dominant and had to shoot right handed. He widdled down the stock so he could lean over and sight with his left eye.

The factory 1/2 octagon barrel has been cut down from the original 26". This rifle has been there and done that. Still functions and shoots.


[img:left]http://[/img]

that's what I'm talken about. what caliber ?

Looks like special order half octagon barrel

It's a 30 WCF, came from the factory with a 26", 1/2 octagon barrel and the 1/2 mag. Barrel was cut off along the trail somewhere probably to make it handier.

According to the polishing room records it left the factory sometime in 1907.

Guns were just a TOOL - nothing more, nothing less - and they adapted them to better do the job they wanted done. No thought whatsoever was given to preserving them intact for future generations. I can't say I blame them, except for putting a compass in the comb of the stock.
yooper

There ain't room on that stock for a compass!

I like lookin' at guns like this. Thanks for posting!!!!

these are real guns. they have had a life and have stories to tell.