Need Help Grading a p64 - 24hourcampfire

I'm looking at a p64 in 338 win mag. It has been reblown and the original stock has been refinished. All the furniture is original and it seems to be in good shape.

Clearly, it is no longer in 'collector state', but what is a fair price given these two alterations...what % do you downgrade a M70 to that has been reblown and had a stock refinished?

Originally Posted by setch

I'm looking at a p64 in 338 win mag. It has been reblown and the original stock has been refinished. All the furniture is original and it seems to be in good shape.

Clearly, it is no longer in 'collector state', but what is a fair price given these two alterations...what % do you downgrade a M70 to that has been reblown and had a stock refinished?

Do you mean it's been re-blued?? Pics would be extremely helpful as would a better description on the quality of the re-work. Was it a professional job or was the work done by some backyard mechanic??

Just my opinion but a re-blued and re-finished 338 makes it a using gun and pretty much throws it out of collecting. But it's still a great gun provided it hasn't been abused. If it were me I would say it's worth what a new M70 is worth, matbe a little more.

Well that was a bit of a brain-fart. Yes, I mean re-blued...not reblown. The stock was refinished by the owner with a simple hand rubbed oil finish. The barrel was done by a smith, didn't ask who as it became apparent it was not a collector piece.

Let me know what your best guess is bsa1917hunter. Oh, and what year did they start DTg the p64s in the factory?

Originally Posted by setch

Well that was a bit of a brain-fart. Yes, I mean re-blued...not reblown. The stock was refinished by the owner with a simple hand rubbed oil finish. The barrel was done by a smith, didn't ask who as it became apparent it was not a collector piece.

Let me know what your best guess is bsa1917hunter. Oh, and what year did they start DTg the p64s in the factory?

To answer your question: The first year they started drilling and tapping the receiver bridges (both front and rear bridge like modern rifles of today) for scope mounting was in 1947. The checkering looks like it was sanded on and covered with the oil. Here are a few things I see from the small pic you posted:

1. Checkering damage from stock refinishing.
2. Receiver was polished and blued.

If I were looking at buying this Alaskan, I'd check these things:

1. Look for cracks in the stock, in between the trigger mortise and mag well as well as behind the tang.

2. Make sure it has the ".458" stamp on the bottom of the recoil lug.

3. Does it have the original front and rear sights with the front sight hood?

4. Does the serial # indicate it was made between '56 (don't ask

..) and '63?

5. Has it been re-barreled?

6. Quality of the re-bluing?

7. Any extra holes?

I agree with reelman in that it is worth as much as a new FN BACO 338 Alaskan, maybe even a bit more. The pre 64 338 Alaskan is hard to find for less than about $1,500.00 in just about any condition and most owners really hang on to them. Trust me, I spent the better part of 2 years finding mine (just the right one). Your rifle in question has had a lot of work done to it, so it may only be worth around $1,150.00-$1,250.00 (realistically) from what I can see in the small 1 picture you posted earlier. If you get us some more pics, the value may go up a bit.

BSA,Covered pretty much everything you can or need to know! The only thing I will add is the fact the given good wood the amateur wood refinish job can be made to look a lot better than it left the Winchester factory! I will also add that I see very few 338 win mags in SW GA, BUT I have yet to see a shot out one anywhere! Just enough recoil where they do not get banged to death, good zero session and the hunt,maybe a little load development! very best on a fine 70, WinPoor

Good post winpoor and great point about the stock. A good stock guy can cut new checkering and refinish to better than new condition. Good point buddy.

Any more pics of the 338??

It never ceases to amaze me the level of expertise on this forum, thanks in large part to guys like BSA and Winpoor. Awesome stuff!

The 338 Alaskan is on my must buy list.

Eric

Originally Posted by EricM

The 338 Alaskan is on my must buy list.

Eric

It is well worth having. I don't hardly hunt without the Alaskan, at least when I am in the West. It has become my go to rifle.

I almost mentioned your name after Eric's post, because I know this is one of your favorite rifles. I know mine is and is also one of the last rifles I'd get rid of!! Kutenay is also one of those guys that absolutely loves the 338 Alaskan. I can hear Dewey now: The OP needs to drop that action in a Mcmillan, load up some 250 gr Nosler partitions at 2900 fps and hunt the hell out of that thing!!

Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter

I almost mentioned your name after Eric's post, because I know this is one of your favorite rifles. I know mine is and is also one of the last rifles I'd get rid of!! Kutenay is also one of those guys that absolutely loves the 338 Alaskan. I can hear Dewey now: The OP needs to drop that action in a Mcmillan, load up some 250 gr Nosler partitions at 2900 fps and hunt the hell out of that thing!!

250 at 2900?

Yep, ask him (Dewey). What's wrong with that?

It's 200+ fps beyond most published max loads I've seen, and 150+ fps beyond the fast speeds Nosler lists. Full throttle in my Sako (24" barrel) is about 2700 as well.

2900 with a 250 strikes me as pretty hot.

Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter

I almost mentioned your name after Eric's post, because I know this is one of your favorite rifles. I know mine is and is also one of the last rifles I'd get rid of!! Kutenay is also one of those guys that absolutely loves the 338 Alaskan. I can hear Dewey now: The OP needs to drop that action in a Mcmillan, load up some 250 gr Nosler partitions at 2900 fps and hunt the hell out of that thing!!

It is not one of, it is THE favorite rifle!

As for 2900 with a 250 PT, well, I'll let someone else fire that one... I get 2900 with the 225 PT without drama, but about as good as I can do is 2800 with RL22 and the 250. Very accurate though. That's outta the 25" tube on my Alaskan.

Kutenay liked them hot, but I had to look thu my stuff to find a quote from the good guy. I was wrong, he ran them at 2,800 fps which is still pretty hot but puts a thumping on anything I'd imagine

Originally Posted by kutenay

Yup, mine with a relatively heavy mounts/iron sights setup I made up from various commercial parts and in roughly 25 oz. synthetics run about 8.75 lbs, all up, empty.

With my usual load of 250s at 2800, this is about as "light" as most folks want a .338WM and my slightly lighter Dakota 76 is about 8.5 lbs and I wouldn't have one any lighter than that for serious field uses.

I have packed many .338s for many, many long miles in BC's mountains and in the Alberta Rockies, as well and they CAN BE "too light", especially pushing the 250s that the round was really intended for....as "EK" told us and he was right.

If, you do get it stocked with a "plastic handle", you might well find that it drills 250 NPs AND Hornady ILs into the SAME .7" at 100..........this gives one a WARM feeling.......

Originally Posted by kutenay

Yup, that's the one, have four much like that, but, two had broken stocks, almost MINT metal and so I bought them for, welllll, let's just say that I hastened to pay what the owners asked......

The factory stocks are clubs, not worth bedding, although I did my original when it cracked in the web between the trigger and mag. mortises. I did so for largely sentimental reasons and it has nice lumber, as well.

When, you put a GOOD synthetic, one that FITS YOU, on one of these and a "KickEez" pad, you might be amazed at how they shoot, all of my four and the re-blue I used to have would go under MOA, with 250s.

My nicest one, hardly used, but, typical stock crack, in it's Borden-Rimrock, will put 250 NPs at 2800 into .6" at 100M and it's matching mate, same stock, very close serial no. is almost as accurate.....they KNEW HOW to build REAL rifles back in the day.

As I said in the PMs, you got a very GOOD deal on that and shoulc get a Micky, Talleys, Brockmans, then you will get the maximum utility out of it. BTW, in wet climates, I always wrap mine with black, vinyl electric tape at season's start and take it off when finished.

Funny, tho', these are hard to sell here, many are beat and reblues and yet the newer Mod. 70s seem to attract the buyers more. I recently had my nicest pair and my really fine pair of the .375/,300 in on consignment and no one seemed really interested.....black guns, tho', here in Vancouver, seem to just fly off the shelves.......different world, from when I started.

Anyhow, best of luck and many good years with it!

Hopefully Kutenay doesn't mind me posting his quotes, but his words of wisdom about the 338 Alaskan are pretty encouraging for a guy thinking about making this purchase..

Originally Posted by beretzs

Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter

I almost mentioned your name after Eric's post, because I know this is one of your favorite rifles. I know mine is and is also one of the last rifles I'd get rid of!! Kutenay is also one of those guys that absolutely loves the 338 Alaskan. I can hear Dewey now: The OP needs to drop that action in a Mcmillan, load up some 250 gr Nosler partitions at 2900 fps and hunt the hell out of that thing!!

It is not one of, it is THE favorite rifle!

As for 2900 with a 250 PT, well, I'll let someone else fire that one... I get 2900 with the 225 PT without drama, but about as good as I can do is 2800 with RL22 and the 250. Very accurate though. That's outta the 25" tube on my Alaskan.

Me too!!! Kutenay PM'd me after I got mine with his load and I was wrong, it was 2,800 fps. That's still damn hot though. I personally don't run them that hot, trust me...

It's definitely a whomper, even at slower speeds.

If I drag my Sako out of retirement to bust a big hog or something, I'd use a "light"

load with a 250. Nosler shows 67.5 gr. H4831 as the most accurate charge of the most accurate powder in their testing giving a 250 about 2650 fps.

Yeah, without a doubt. I like them all from the 338. The 210 PT is pretty fearsome for elk. Runs out fast like a 300 magnum and hits really hard. I'd use that bullet for pretty much anything. I am running some 225's this Fall, but it'll be the BBC's up front with Nosler's pulling tail end charlie.

I've even ran the 275 Speer SS at 2650. Deadly bullet as well and very accurate from my rifle. Hope to count coup with it one day as well against a poor old elk.

Mathman, I've taken elk with the 250gr. sierra gk at 2,600 fps in my Ruger M77 mkII and it works awesome!! My shoulder doesn't suffer that way either

. I can practice quite a bit with that load as well: I remember shooting 50 rounds one day with the old Ruger 77. My Alaskan doesn't seem to recoil as much as the Ruger did, so I can see stepping up the charge wt and increasing velocity as long as accuracy is still good. I've since dropped down to the 225gr. pills in the 338 since it seems like a good compromise for the 338. Kutenay is probably right though, the 338 is probably at it's best with the 250gr. pills...

I tell you what, the McMillan on my Alaskan feels night and day different in regards to recoil vs the old wood stock. It is very pleasant. All the same spec's and such, just "feels" lighter recoiling.. The McM actually feels a little trimmer as well.

Originally Posted by beretzs

Yeah, without a doubt. I like them all from the 338. The 210 PT is pretty fearsome for elk. Runs out fast like a 300 magnum and hits really hard. I'd use that bullet for pretty much anything. I am running some 225's this Fall, but it'll be the BBC's up front with Nosler's pulling tail end charlie.

I've even ran the 275 Speer SS at 2650. Deadly bullet as well and very accurate from my rifle. Hope to count coup with it one day as well against a poor old elk.

You know realistically, the .338 win is so versatile a lot of different bullet weights work in it. I know some guys down here that use the 210 partitions for elk and it hamers them. The guys I hunt with run the 250 gr. sierra's (don't laugh). This year, I hope to try the 225gr Hornady interlock on a big bull (or little bull, I don't care!!!, any bull

..). You know how it is here: take what you can get...

Originally Posted by beretzs

I tell you what, the McMillan on my Alaskan feels night and day different in regards to recoil vs the old wood stock. It is very pleasant. All the same spec's and such, just "feels" lighter recoiling.. The McM actually feels a little trimmer as well.

Sure rub it in

.. I have a line on a nice swirly that I've been contemplating putting on one of my pre 64's.

For any realistic use I'd have for my 338 I wouldn't need a 250. But back when I used to play with it, the rifle made it clear to me a 250 was what it liked.

Oh yeah, nothing much has has changed since the 338 was released, for the guy that wants something more than a 270/30-06 class the 338 really fills the gap better than a 300 magnum. My opinion on that as I like the 300 mags a bunch, but with 200's and 210's humming along at around 3000 they don't give up much of anything to the 300's ballistically and really seem to be very effective elk bullets. The 250's and 275 are in a whole nother class, maybe not as perfect as a 375 but still effective.

Amen...

Back to the OP's question. I'd like to see a few more pics, just to see what he has. Maybe some close ups of the bluing job, the bolt face, the crown, muzzle, top of the receiver/bridges, and stampings (including proofmarks, under receiver and bottom of the recoil lug). Also, condition of the bore would be good to know as well. Even though we know the majority of 338's didn't get shot much: It's hard to find one with a worn out bore...

Originally Posted by mathman

For any realistic use I'd have for my 338 I wouldn't need a 250. But back when I used to play with it, the rifle made it clear to me a 250 was what it liked.

My Ruger m77's were the same way. I even tried the 180's back in the day and the 250's always seemed to edge out everything in the accuracy dept. However, I always suspected it was because of the particular type/brand of bullet (Sierra gameking). My first 2 Rugers loved a stiff charge of IMR 4350 which ran the 250's at 2,700 fps and my last Ruger liked a somewhat anemic load (67gr. IMR 4350) that ran 2,600 fps. My Alaskan doesn't seem to be as particular as the Rugers and has seemed to shoot just about everything I've tried in it pretty accurately. The Rugers were very decisive when the accuracy node was achieved. 1/2 a grain in either direction would make accuracy suffer big time. Here's the last Ruger m77's load:

Just like EricM said, this is a great post...tons of information. My dad and brother both shoot 300 roys and I just felt the 338 win was much more versatile, which is why I bought one a couple years ago (a sako) and used it on my first elk hunt.

BSA...I have not gotten additional pictures. The owner was out of town for a couple days. I've asked and need to follow-up with a call.

setch, in your opinion, is his price reasonable for the condition of the rifle? I know you don't have all the specifics since the rifle is not in hand, but what is your gut feeling?

That is the question. Given the lack of data, I'm not sure what would be reasonable. It can be had for something between $1000 and $1200...probably more towards the top end of that range. On the one hand, I'm not about collecting, more about rifles that can be used, if I want to use them. But I don't want to overpay just because it is a p64. There's a lot of goodness in a an alaskan of that era, even with the alterations. And for that reason, I was/am interested. Absent some better information, it'd be a leap of faith, which I'm never real good at making.

I am going to try to get some additional and better pictures, so we'll see.

I'm looking forward to seeing more pics. Sounds like you are thinking logically as well. Keep us posted.

I believe $1200 would be a fair price if it is indeed an original .338. Drop it in a Mickey and proceed to slay critters.