Several of you here own exceptional Model 70 rifles from a local Estate via my refferal to same. Examples from the past 8 or so years being an unfired featherweight in 257 Roberts, FWT 308 and an unfired condition regular model 70 in 30/06 etc. Now belonging to my friends here at 24hrcf.

It seems as though another one of the heirs to this once outstanding collection has decided to sell another piece of it. The rifle will be coming from the same person who had the above pieces.

This one is also in 99% condition or thereabouts and is a TARGET model, with heavy barrel and factory (I am told) Target blocks. The screw holes do not look to be boogered up or messed with. No dings or missing bluing.

This rifle came up for sale just this afternoon, and the owner also has its mate, a Target Model, in 220 Swift. So far, the Swift is not for sale, but if someone here buys the 243 they will probably get first shot at the 220 Swift at a later date.

So, what is a fair price for this, ASSUMING that the description is correct? Any of you Winchester Collectors here want to own this? I do not have any cash to buy and flip and am not messing with that stuff any more. If someone wants it I will put you directly in touch with the current owner.

Current owner thinks the Rifle is worth around $3,000.00 but is willing to (wants to) hear from persons more knowledgeable than he. And I am not knowledgeable on such things any more. Been out of the loop too long.

Estimates as to its correct current value, if description matches actual condition, of course, would be appreciated. So far, the other rifles from this person have been in new to near new condition. I am not much help anymore as I have not purchased a new blue book of gun values in several years as I am not involved in the gun show stuff any more, though I still hold a C&R license until it is due for renewal.

I hope one of the good guys here can snap this one up. Assistance with a fair valuation and some interested parties perhaps would be appreciated.

From what I have observed the past few years, $3000.00 (give or take a few hundred) seems to be the asking price. Have not seen one sell in awhile though.

h

Thank you. What is, in your opinion, a fair actual selling price for such a rifle? Asking prices with lots of blue sky are generally not useful, and this owner is more motivated to sell than to advertise it for eternity, hoping for that one guy that will pay top dollar.

Looking for a 'good, but fair deal' number for such a rifle, and maybe someone here who would like to make a run at it. Cell phone photos can probably be obtained tomorrow morning and sent.

More info on this rifle. Owner Eric just called me and tells me that the rifle is in unfired new/mint condition. Rifle has, in its rather porky target stock, an integral sling adjustment tool from Winchester. Pretty interesting rifle, and I will get it into some good light for photos soon if someone here wants this piece.

Would it sell quickly at, say, $2700 plus actual shipping? What is a real world, sell it now, yet fair price? My aquaintance Eric, the owner of this rifle, is a fairly motivated seller but obviously wants a fair price for this family hierloom. I am but a messenger who thought that one of you Winchester collector types here might appreciate having a shot at this rather different and rare variant of the finest production rifle ever made.

Gunbroker.

I agree about putting this one on GB. You will get much more eyes on the prize and probably get top dollar from guys with big egos and even bigger pocket books. With that being said, top dollar for one of these is $3,000.00 for a 98-100% condition specimen. Here are some numbers I'll throw at it from a very viable and useful reference:

The Red Book of Winchester Values, 3rd. edition:

90% condition: $2,100.00

98-100% condition: $3,000.00

I'd strongly suggest posting numerous photos of all angles of the rifle, if your intention is to sell it here on the fire. I don't buy into this bs about rifles being "99% condition" until I see them, generally in person is best for full appraisal. One last question: Does your buddies rifle have all original sights (front and rear)? Are the blocks original? Anything unoriginal on the rifle like butt plate. Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Get them posted and we can pick it apart, I mean give a full estimate based on what we can see...

Eric is not much on computers. GB might be a place to look for some selling prices, though. That said, I find that Gunbroker prices tend to be a bit over real market value at times.

I wonder if it would be legal for me to list it for him there on my now unused account, so long as the money went straight to him and he handled the shipping etc?

Would be more fun and rewarding for me if one of the collectors here wound up with it, though. Just like the several other nice model 70's I mentioned above.

Thanks, and the owner knows that he would have to show the rifle and have it photographed well before anyone spent that kind of money on such a rifle.

Eric has become an aquaintance of mine largely by being one of the first responders when my wife has needed an ambulance for me here. Heck of a way to make a new freind! But what the heck, one of my emergency room Dr's happened to need some 416 Rigby ammo for a cape buffalo Safari last summer, and it was with ammo that I loaded up and supplied that he and his brother took nice Cape buff bulls with

winpoor here probably knows more about the targets than anyone else here. As soon as you get some good pictures take, I'm sure many would like to see the rifle.

We'd only be speculating and wild azzed guessing without some good pictures. As far as GB "being a bit over real market value", bull chit: Market value is based on any kind of sale: Internet or otherwise. If a particular rifle sells for $3,000.00 on an internet auction site, that rifle is worth that much on that particular day. No ifs and or buts about it. Now, "fair market value" is an entirely different subject..

Good points all.

I will offer to take and post some pictures of Eric's rifle when the Thanksgiving Holiday and events wind down later this weekend.

Winchesterpoor actually has one (maybe a couple) of the other rifles from this collection and individual. I will look forward to his input on this one.

winpoor has been trying to sell a few of his rifles. I'll bet if he didn't already have a nice 243 target, he'd probably already be all over this one. Keep us posted, it sounds like a dandy.

Im pulling from a sometimers,halftimers memory BUT I think Winchester made 680 Targets in .243 win. , The Varminter is the same gun but with a modified fwt . stock, they made 2400 of them. At the end of production a few left the factory with CM instead of SS barrels. To put any money on this gun we need detailed photos! Anything less is a wild azz guess! For some reason the .243 has enjoyed a comeback in last 2 years. Photos man photos!! I have delt with Safariman on a very nice transition gun back when my wife was sick and all went well. very best WinPoor

Im bleeding money every day feeding cattle BUT with good photos I could find a place for this babydoll! Safariman was good and accurate on his description on ever how many guns I traded with him on but this one needs photos! Even half azz photos are better than none. I have a late Varminter with a CM barrel that I should sell as my 56' SS Varminter is a tack driver. We need photos! very best WinPoor

Safariman, at the least get us a SN so I can do a little research. I wish the gun could be pulled apart, the trigger will have an upside down 'T' or the word TARGET stamped in the trigger shoe. I am very interested in the gun but I have started going over them very close. A lot of great guns have been popping up lately. Winpoor

winpoor ol buddy, you need to put your poker face on...

Photos will go to Winchesterpoor and another member who requested them privately as soon as I am back in Walla Walla and can get them. Serial number will be provided as well.

I will put some photos here if given permission to do so by the owner just so you all can see the way cool old school rifle.

THAT is some helpful information. I had no idea of the "T" stamp so I will look for this and try to photograph it when I get the rifle in my hands.

It's better to get photos out in the open so more eyes can be on the piece. It really helps to have input from many knowledgeable members than a select few. This protects both the seller and the buyer. Please don't beat around the bush about things like serial # info like you have done in the past. That only makes you look dishonest and untrustworthy..

Well, I got to handle and look this rifle over for a few minutes today. What a beauty! Nary a mark or wear indication upon it. Photos (13 of them, lots of detail and angles) have been sent to those who requested them. I will try to a post a couple of them up here soon as well. I have to get them from my I-phone to my computer and then onto photobucket. Not up to all of that right now.

Serial number, for those who wish to know, is 5609XX

Rifle has unused target blocks only for sighting arraingments. No sights. Scope mounting screws do not look to have ever been touched by a screwdriver. Very wide forend with sling adjuster and position shooting type sling attachment. 26 inch bull barrel. Zero bluing loss anywhere including the bolt, extractor, raceways, muzzle, floorplate etc. no finish loss on the stock save for a couple of VERY minor handling marks that would dissapear with some Old English but I nor the rifle's owner are going to attempt to cover the only and very insignificant marks.

I hope that one of the great fellows here at the 'fire gets to add this to his collection.

That's nice of you to try to help a buddy out in selling this. It was manufactured in 1962 according to Rule. Late 62 in fact. Somehow, your always off on your DOM???? No biggie as it's only 1 year. I look forward to seeing some pics. If winpoor ends up buying it, I'm sure he'll post some regardless. Good luck with your sale. Sounds like a nice one. Did you check to see if it had a "T" stamped on the trigger?

I got the date from the owner before I saw the rifle, His estimate. No "T" stamped on the trigger, and I looked. But the owner tells me that these later ones did not have the "T" stamped. I do not know if this is correct or not, but this sure looks to my untrained eye like a near perfect specimen. And, this is the same person/owner who inherited the other Model 70's that a couple of guys here have purchased and been quite happy with.

I know a guy that bought a 300H&H rifle that was built from a short mag action and was "quite happy with" it as well

Maybe I missed it....what is the asking price?

$2750 plus $40 for shipping and ins, USPS.

I'd have that baby in so many different poses by now that it would make our heads spin. Why you keeping the pictures from the open forum? I'm sure guys like reelman, handwerk, balltownbob, bobinNH, gunwizard, oregon45, winpoor, whitebird, poconojack, stuvwxyz, blackdog1, and many more would probably like to throw their 2 cents in. This would be helpful to the potential buyer and seller.

Safariman sent me photos of the gun, it is a very nice example! My problem is a small mil spec flip phone that really does not do justice vis the photos. I am .243 Varminter heavy, They are really same guns sans marksman stock. My late Varminter has a CM barrel vs the usual SS, mottled barrel, from my photos I can not tell is this gun is CM or SS. Price is fair and in line!! Im bumping 80 long guns and need to clean house before any new ones inbound. Im also bleeding cowfeed this time of year and that always locks the checkbook up! My dealings with Safariman have been good .I have noticed that the .243 has made a big comeback in last couple years. I never had a problem nailing whitetails with the cal., once I got on the correct bullet. very best WinPoor

I hope all goes well for the buyer and seller. I'm done with this one..

Would the price be lower if there was no middle man (you)? What would be the best way to communicate directly with the owner?

Safariman: My 2 cents worth on the M70 Target. I have a Swift Target model made in 1950. Bought it 2-3 years ago from a nationally known dealer in old 70s. I bought another target model from the same dealer in .270 Win.which, caliber-wise, is fairly rare. When I got the .270 I decided to have another very sharp old M70 man look it over for authenticity and he told me it was a parts guns, even though the common things like s.n. matching, etc was correct. I sent it back and got a re-fund.

I have a fair number of old 70s in both shooters and collectors and have looked at many more. And as you probably know, these rifles are probably one of the most messed with models of guns out there. There were many little variations with the target models alone: sight options, stainless and blued barrels, especially in some calibers, "T" marked triggers (not all target models have this mark") and the list goes on and on.

Were I spending money on an old 70 for investment purposes, I would not buy another target unless the deal was tremendous. As I've looked at prices of the common target calibers in the past 2-3 years, a number of other variations have appreciated much better, for example, .375s,.300 H&Hs.

I would say that you could find a .243 Varmint in comparable condition for a bit less money than a .243 Target and still have the same fun shooting it, if that's how you want to use it.

As I said, just my 2 $ worth. Good Luck.

ruffed grouse,

Thanks for your input and as you say .2c worth. This rifle is coming from a local and well know collection and the few rifles that have been released from it have all been correct and exemplary pieces. But, I know where you are coming from and understand your cautions.

Not my gun, anyways. Just putting notice here in the event that someone at this site and forum had the hots for one of these in a rare caliber.

MARK