pre 64 Grisel 81

Beautiful rifle.

Although now I kinda wish people would leave the remaining ones alone, except for maybe restocking them and retaining the original stock to return the rifle to original.

A gary goudy 7x57 I should have never sold off....


and a .270 fwt a dear friend built that I will never sell...

You are a wise man GunDoc 7

Handwerk....very nice!

Anyone care to post a few pics of my Biesen?

Send it to me. I'll take some pictures of it and see how she shoots too.. You want me to shoot some 5 or 10 shot groups with the ol girl??

Oh those are beauts handwerk!

Damn but that's a nice rifle!!!

If you Google, Bing or Yahoo Griffin & Howe Model 70 sporters pics of some real nice ones should come up.

Handwork,those two rifles are GORGEOUS!

The words custom rifle are thrown around here loosely. Some rave on about only better than average rifle wood. Those two rifles are custom.

Very nice handwerk. Very nice.

I'm loving the marble cake wood on the 7x57. I like marble cake even more than feather crotch.

That .270 is mighty classy as well. JOC would approve of both, I am sure.

Handwerk that 270 FWT is the stuff dreams are made of.

Absolutely stunning.

Mr GunDoc7, I know how you feel about these pre 64 mod 70's, trust me I feel that same way BUT you are just going to have to take the tac that for every one parted out, customized, rebarreled, turned into a tack type long range hammer, it just makes the balance of the good ones both the one gun man tool to the NIB guns worth just that much more!!!! That is one of the things that make these things so dog gone fun! knock on wood most shoot as good as they look! We started out with 600K, Im willing to bet 100K are gone, fires,carwrecks,plane crashes in Canada and AK, no telling what happened to half that were in Africa? I seem to remember seeing a mountain of guns in Australia being bought back and destroyed. That leaves just enough of these fine guns to make several of us folks very very happy happy! Everyone of us has a slightly different view of how they should be treated! I for one love a NIB to a pawn shop dog that can be brought back to a damn site better than it left the Winchester factory and still drop game like a bad dream.... BANG FLOP. There is a place for each and every one left out there for us old codgers.... Im seeing some of the younger 'black gun ' boys say wow what is that old school tackdriver on the range?just my take 2C.... very best WinPoor

I really don't see the harm in refinishing (properly) a battered-up standard grade in a common caliber that was ridden hard and put up wet. Or using a donor action from a rifle you had with a bad barrel. Collector-grade guns are a different animal. Here's a .270 standard grade from '52; it's in well-used condition. The finish and checkering need a refresh; it'll look better and be worth more than being just another over-priced, hard-used M70 that's sitting in the rack at Cabela's. Been thinking about re-doing this one, just like my other standard grade in .30-06. I may leave it alone though; it's a nice contrast to my refinished one and it still gets the job done.
Bob

I probably haven't been clear. I'm not a collector. I simply like to see classic rifles "kept together", lock, stock, and barrel.

IMO, the decision to shoot a NIB or refinish a worn rifle is purely and simply a monetary decision based on the collector market. I really don't care one way or the other what somebody does, because none of that stuff changes what I call the "intrinsic value" of the rifle. That value, as opposed to the collector value, is the one I care about. I don't even get terribly wound up about a recoil pad, although I do recognize that it hurts the collector value. I kinda hate to see overly short LOPs, but if the owner needs a short stock, it is what it is. However, I do admit I value the "cool factor" of the Niedner (Neidner?) style butt plates and cannot bring myself to cut one off, but it really doesn't change the rifle all that much. When I went looking for a "beater" stock, I wanted an original, but I didn't mind a pad as long as the stock wasn't cut too short. Original LOP with pad was fine. As far as bedding, I would prefer to see how much it truly needs it before doing it, but if it won't shoot, and you are pretty sure it is the bedding, then go for it.

People get terribly jacked up about holes in the side of the receiver due to the installation of a G&H side mount. But when you think about when it was done, that mount was state of the art at the time. Those holes don't change the reliability or the accuracy of the rifle one bit. Buy it cheap, plug or patch, blue or Cerakote, enjoy the rifle. It is still a great rifle.

I don't know if I have posted this before or not, but I can best explain how I feel with a couple of hypothetical scenarios.

Imagine some kid who thinks a cool rifle is a camo dipped AR asks you what the big deal is about Pre '64 M70s. What do you show him or let him shoot?
1. Make him put on white gloves, handle a NIB, and don't let him even open the bolt?
2. Let him shoot a super nice, work of art custom stocked one?
3. Let him shoot one in a McMillian, Brown, Banser, or similar?
4. Let him shoot an original stock, refinished or not, recoil pad or not, but re-barreled with a similar to original contour?
5. Let him shoot a good example of an original, refinished or not, recoil pad or not?
Assuming all are accurate, I believe he would most understand what Pre '64s are about if the answer was #4 or #5. IMO the stock, good or bad, is part of the experience. If I hit a bad barrel or managed to wear one out, I would try to find a take-off or take-apart (sadly) barrel. A different "user" stock is fine, even a synthetic if that is what you want, but I like to see people hang onto the original so the rifle can be returned to original configuration.

Now imagine I have two NIB, apparently as alike as two different things can be. I take one, mount a scope, work up a load. It turns out it functions flawlessly, and it is an absolute tack driver. I shot it about 100 shots working up a load, but other than bluing wear from running the action, I didn't ding it up. I take off the scope, and offer to give you this one or the NIB. Which do you take? Unless it is some crazy $10K configuration, I'm taking the proven rifle.

That's how I look at it. To the collectors I'm a philistine. To the McSwirly guys, I'm lacking in vision. Actually, I'm not. I just don't show it with the Pre '64s.

Too me NIB doesn't really mean much. NIB wouldn't last long in my house.

My great uncle RIP was the sole person responsible for building the embers of my firearm love into a full bonfire. " Guns were made to be shot Pat, if you want to just sit and look at something, go buy a picture".

I live by those words when it comes to firearms and many other things.

Most of my old M70's are original and have regular stocks.

I got this M70 with an good stock at Cabelas not long ago for about $475 (with no scope).

I shot it today at 100 yds and it put the first two shots touching each other at 100 yds.

I adjusted the sights and from a warm barrel it made a 1.5" group with two shots. I fire just two shot groups with most hunting rifles now and record where the first shot hits from a cold barrel.

It's a 300WM with a 22" aftermarket barrel.

I know it's not a 'masterpiece' however it's accurate.

Savage 99, That is a nice rifle. It is a REALLY NICE $475 rifle!

While it's just a regular rifle that fits me and shoots the others above are masterpieces.

Here is a view of it's forend. Also the 300 WM is not my favorite.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/974441192/Custom-358-Winchester-by-Dale-Goens.htm

Now that a nice rifle. I have a FWT 358 and it's a great caliber. Very, very tempting

Goens .358



$5,000.

My 358 Win.



My 270 Win.

probably not up to the level of some of the ones shown above, but I'm proud of this one. It's a 264 Win Mag built on an early 50's action with a factory barrel. Everything was teflon coated. Had Roger Biesen carve the stock for me. Pictures aren't the greatest, but you get the idea.

A Biesen-stocked M70 is on it's own level. Gorgeous!
Bob

Roger is about one of the nicest guys you'll ever talk to or deal with. Wish I had and/or could afford more of his work.

Have posted this many times:

http://www.hallowellco.com/ike_ellis%20custom_winchester_70%20375%20H+H.htm

Here's another.

OMG! That is a masterpiece for sure.

That would make a great truck gun.

I could see myself sitting in a deer blind and just staring at it. It couldn't be built today for $10K.

How on earth could you hav partes with that?

I hear what you're saying...I miss it all the time. But it wasn't getting hunted and it went to someone very sick that wanted to leave each of his son's a special rifle......it was the right thing to do...I think?

always

it just takes money to buy another one like it

Guys,

Here are four of mine. From top to bottom, .270 Win., .375 H&H, .338 Win Mag., and .458 Lott. Enjoy.

TT

Beauties!

tsquare, those are all beautiful. I am probably too biased towards any pre 64 model 70 though...

WOW!

tsquare,

Can you please tell me the brand and model of the red pads on the .338 and the .458 Lott?

Thanks,
Gun Doc

Galazan has a reproduction red Winchester pad. I used one on a 220 Swift that the stock had been cut. I don't like pads but it looks good on the rifle.

GSPfan,

Thanks. I am aware of the Galazan pads. I was wondering if that is what is on the two rifles in tsquare's post, or if they were something else.

The red 1" Pachmayr Decelerator is also a very nice looking pad....

GD7,

Both pads are Pachmayr Old English pads.

TT

tsquare,

Thanks. Some say the Galazan pads are a bit "orange" in color and not quite as good a reducing recoil. I don't know, but I do know the two red pads in your picture look very nice. Doesn't hurt that they are on spectacular wood, but I am looking at the pad color.

Gun Doc

Here are a couple more.


top rifle is a post-64 Classic in .30-06 and bottom rifle is a pre-64 in .280.


A pre-64 in 9.3x62.

All three rifles from Gary Goudy. For GD7, all the pads are Pachmayr Old English.

Somebody spent some time with checkering on this pre-64 M70 in 30-06.












donsm70

1956 270 FWT restocked by Sam Marino of Beaumont, Texas in the 1960's:

Damn tsquare you have got it brother!