Now that Rick has realized tyranny is gay, I would like to ask those more knowledgeable than I a couple questions.

Is this a good deal, or bad? Is there any reason this rifle wouldn't see lots and lots of use? Seems ideal to me.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Chapuis-Express-9-3x74r.cfm?gun_id=100318147


Travis

$5k-$7K is about right for a used one in good condition.

Travis,

That's a good deal, especially with the scope included.

How much use it would get depends on what kinds of hunting you do. The 9.3x74R is a nifty round, and a double rifle in it is cool (I have one myself), but the standard ballistics are a 286-grain bullet at around 2300-2400 fps. This is a lot more useful than many people would think, but not exactly an open-country mule deer round either.

There are lighter bullets available in 9.3. In particular the 250-grain AccuBond shoots quite flat, and I've used it for shooting out to 400 yards. But you might or might not be able to get it to regulate (have both barrels shoot to the same place). A lot would depend on the load the rifle was regulated for in the first place.

There are some 9.3 bullets under 250 grains, but they have such poor BC's there's no advantage to loading them. I can tell you, however, that a 286 Partition at 2400 knocks the nsot out of stuff, yet doesn't tear up much meat doing it.

Thanks to both.

I have the 9.3X62 in a bolt gun. Isn't this just a more bigger, rimmed version?

Every time I take an open country rifle out, I end up punching my A-tag under 100yds anyway...

Is that weight and LOP pretty standard on this one?


Travis

The Chapuis were usually regulated for the Norma 232 Vulcan ammo. You might have to fiddle with loads a bit to find a recipe for the 286gr ammo.

If it was regulated with the 232 and the scope attached, which is very important, heavier bullets would spread the shots wider and upward. With the scope off, they would be even wider apart.

Double rifles are far more finicky than bolt guns. They can drive a patient person nuts. I like the little Chapuis 9,3X74Rs and had two over time. the second had a second set of 20ga 27" barrels with dedicated forend. It had a 2-7 Leupold in Recknagel swing mounts.

It was far too nice a gun for me to own and bugger up, as clumsy as I've become and not being wealthy by any stretch. I got it through some judicious trading.

it sounds about right. IIRC, my Heym is a tad over 14". (I'm 6'0" and 165# and it was fitted). If you're serious about it, I could measure LOP exactly and you could guesstimate your fit from this:)

Yeah, the 9.3x74R is a rimmed, larger version of the 9.3x62. The larger case allows it to reach the same velocities as the 9.3x62 at lower pressures, handy in break-action guns.

The weight with scope is actually a little lighter than some 9.3x74R doubles I've seen. Mine weighs an ounce over 8 pounds without scope.

The LOP is often a little longer on European rifles, partly so it can be adjusted for the individual shooter. They're not as much into one-size-fits-all over there.

You could have it shortened, but that sometimes affects regulation--as does taking the scope off.

My own 9.3x74R double is a German gun from before WWII. It didn't have a scope on it when I bought it (a lot of pre-war guns don't when they end up over here), but it did have bases for a scope, plus excellent iron sights, including a folding tang peep. It regulated perfectly with the load I use in most 9.3x74R's, 65 grains of H4350 and a 286-grain bullet. Muzzle velocity is right around 2400 from the 25" barrels, and four shots (two from each barrel) go under 3" at 100 yards, which is pretty damn good. Luckily, the rifle not only does that with every 286 I've tried, but 270 Speers as well.

Then I decided to see what I could do about a scope, so filed some Talley steel rings to fit the rifle's bases and mounted a 2.5x Leupold. The rings worked fine, but the rifle wasn't regulated anymore, the two barrels shooting about 5-6" apart at 100 yards. The standard way to cure that is add powder, but I'm at the pressure limit for the round with the load used.
Someday I may dink around with it some more with the scope to see if I can come up with a load that regulates, but I like hunting with the irons anyway.

But any change in weight in a double rifle can change regulation, especially in lighter rifles.

That's a nice little cheat sheet!

I don't owe you $14,000.00 do I?


Travis

232's? Sounds foreign.

Good info though. Thanks.


Travis

naw, the invoice is already showing a $7,000 deposit.

Thanks MD.

So, I'm starting to gather that one should ask some questions about when/how/by who the scope was installed and if it's regulated for a scope or not?


Travis

It probably is regulated with the scope. Most modern doubles of any chambering smaller than one of the big African cartridges are scoped. 9.3x74R's usually are, since they're typically used in Europe for driven boar shooting, plus red stag hunting. The original scope might not have been a 4x Leupold, but if a Euro-scope was originally mounted it was probably on the smaller side anyway, due to the usual intended use of such a rifle.

You're probably going to handload for it anyway, so regulation probably wouldn't be a big deal. Though with double rifles you never know!

John

Is your a Thieme & Schlegelmilch?

Yep.

I'm jealous.

Roger that! Thanks.


Travis