Hello all,

I'm new here and hope some of you can give some insight. I've made up my mind (over the past 6 months) that I want a combo gun. Will be used for predator hunting mostly, so it wouldn't be shot a whole lot. Looking at the Ithaca/Tikka LSA-55 as one choice, Savage/Valmet 2400, and the Angelo Zoli (this is the cheaper Zoli from what I can find). Trying to stay around $1k, this is why the short list doesn't include the Valmet 412 right now. Hopefully a drilling is down the road, but that will have to wait. Can anyone give a comparison of these 3, pros and cons, or suggest something else in this price range? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I think you mean the Tikka M07, not LSA55 (which is a bolt-action repeater).

I've used one of these, and it was well made, and the rifle barrel very accurate. However it has a single trigger, exposed hammer and a separate selector. This is very unhandy, and compromises the versatility greatly IMHO. You don't have the instant ability to select barrels of a dual-trigger setup, and it is very slow to get a second shot away.

I haven't used the other two, so can't comment on them. There are two others I'd suggest you consider too though. First are Brnos, both 300 series and 500 series. I have had a good deal of experience with the 300 series and I think they're a good bit of gear. They generally perform well, and have the advantage of being available with a range of interchangeable barrel sets. They're out of production now, but there are plenty around. The main downside is that thy're a bit hefty.

I'd also consider a Baikal. These are a bit utilitarian in finish, but solid. They perform better than some will give credit for, and have chromed bores for long life.

Dan_oz is spot on about getting a combo gun with dual triggers and a safety. A single trigger, selector and hammer are a pain in the butt. I have a Bernardelli 12ga/5.6x50R Mag. it is a nice gun with a set trigger for the rifle. I just sold a Marrochi/American Arms 222 Rem/12ga that was superbly accurate. I'm hunting now with a BRNO 305 in 12ga/22 Highpower that is shooting sub MOA groups at 200 yards.

One thing to watch for is scope mounts, be sure that you find one with the scope Mount if it is a dedicate Mount, they can be hard to find ànd some very expensive, having a set of claw Mount rings made can cost a thousand dollàrs.

dan...


The Tikka LSA-55 is a combo gun with an external hammer, commonly called the "Turkey Gun". It had a barrel selector on the left side of the receiver and commonly came in 222 Rem under 12 gauge.

This would be a good choice if Simpson would get realistic on the price.

They are pretty ignorant regarding combo guns at Simpson and call this lion design a 412, which it is NOT! This gun should sell for about $500.00 to $550.00. These take the traditional SAKO dovetail mounts.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=30079

No, actually, it isn't. The LSA 55 was a bolt action repeater, introduced in about 1967 and quite popular here through the 70s and 80s. The one you're thinking of is, as I said, the M07, aka "Turkey Gun".

FWIW I've used both, and I'm quite familiar with them.

They are the LSA-55 here...the "turkey Gun". I've owned three of them.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=540097501

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=539951014

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Itha...uge-Over-Rem-Left-Hand-Stock/1954622.uts

They also made a 22-250 bolt gun they called the LSA-55; go figure.

Well, that is what you'll sometimes get on those sites. They aren't reliable sources of information.

Here, from the Tikka catalogue of the time:



And from Tikka's web site, the drawing and parts list: http://www.tikka.fi/sites/default/files/TikkaM07.pdf

That's the one we're talking about, isn't it?

This is an LSA 55:


So's this:

Yes, I have found on several sites these two guns with the same model number--quite confusing...luv2safari, that gun at Simpson is one (of many) that I have looked at online; the "slight amount of play" mentioned is what has me worried. I bought a rifle from Simpson's years ago with what was described as "a few pinprick pits" on the barrel--this turned out to be pretty good coverage of one side of the barrel with pitting for over 20" of a 24" barrel, so I am a bit leery of this one. A nice looking rifle to my eyes is the Angelo Zoli, have found several online--anyone have experience with these? I have read that they are the cheaper Zoli, but they do look nice. I really appreciate ALL replies, please keep them coming. Have gotten to the point now that I know a combo will be coming here to live soon, want to be sure I pick a good one. I think its still down to three--A. Zoli, the Ithaca/Tikka hammer gun, Savage 2400, just trying to decide which to pursue.

3 years ago I decided to venture into the combination gun world. After looking at many models and makes and comparing features and price I decided to try a Baikal IZH-94 in 12 Ga. over .308 Winchester.
After three seasons of use in deer ,pig and coyote hunting I have found this to be a very good gun.
I do not see Baikal mentioned much here on this forum.From my experience I really like it.
The .308 barrel is extremely accurate and the 12 Gauge ,which has four supplied choke tubes,is quite satisfactory.

Stan in SC

Consider a gun for birds, small game and even bigger game like the Ithaca Deer Slayers!

I got the first one with the 20" smoothbore barrel and a scope mount base along with irons.

It's handy and has taken small game and deer along with being a 'take-down-gun'.

It's also legal as a shotgun in places like Ct where a rifle is not.

Yes, they are very good value for money. Nothing fancy of course, but solidly made, and the chromed bores are a big plus. I have a double rifle version of the IZH-94 myself, and have been very happy with its performance. I had the triggers fettled after I bought it, which was not difficult nor expensive, and worked very well, and it shoots far better than it has any right to do.

I'd certainly choose an IZH-94 combination, on practical grounds, over any single-trigger combination gun, especially one which required operation of both hammer and selector to get a second shot away.

I had an IZH-94 in 12 over 6.5x55 and never could get the rifle barrel to group. Sold it to a guy who knew that he could do better, but he wasn't able to get the rifle to shoot consistent groups either. I think that he put a little $$ into it, trying to get it to shoot, before he quit and put in away. This was an older EAA version, no choke tubes, that I bought from CDNN back in 2000 for $350.

Not many people are faced with the sort of limits on firearms that you are in Connecticut. Does anyone travel to Connecticut to hunt game that they could hunt with a rifle elsewhere?

While my primary residence is in CT we travel as this state is small yet has some good places to shoot and hunt.

I shot my first deer in VT in 1953 and have owned my hunting 'camp' there since 1964.

My statement made above should be clarified:

"It's also legal as a shotgun in places like Ct where a rifle is not."

Means that it's similar to a rifle when it shoots slugs.

However there are other places in CT like some private land where hunting with rifles is legal!

The very basic one I had in 12ga and 7X57R shot like a decent bolt rifle, and it shot Foster slugs into a good group. The only thing I didn't like were the triggers; they were pretty awful, but I learned to count the ratchet clicks of each one.

If you can find one, a CZ 584 is a good choice. The rifle trigger is adjustable by means of an external screw, and the shotgun barrel has a separate trigger. They typically have decent walnut stocks, and are very accurate.

Having hunted in Vermont for 14 of the 22 years between 1968 and 1989, I sympathize with your situation. Like most Vermont hunters, I assume that you hunted a lot, but punched few tags. Our success in Vermont often came by way of shooting them from Monroe, NH, and killing them in Barnet, VT, just north of the junction of the Connecticut and Passumpsic Rivers.

I have never hunted in Connecticut and don't expect that I ever will.

Stan_in_SC, dan_oz, Hogeye--the more I have researched combo guns, the more interested I've become in these models, but they seem to be harder to find than some of the others; however, they HAVE been added to the wish list. Deer, pigs, and coyotes are the big three that I hunt here, but am constantly having to pass on crows, squirrels, and rabbits while hunting with a rifle---not saying that I would shoot at every one that I see while on a deer stand, but it WOULD be nice to have the option. Still hoping that someone will chime in on the Angelo Zoli guns; they seem a little easier to find than some, but I have to wonder if this is because they aren't as good as the others...I sincerely appreciate all the replies, they are a BIG help! I have been bitten hard by this combo gun bug and know that I will own one soon, just want to make an informed decision/purchase.

The Angelo Zoli guns seem to work decently, but the workmanship is a bit lacking, and they don't compare with the Antonio Zoli manufactured guns. The difference in cost represents well the relative disparity in quality..

If I could find an Angelo for a low price in a combo I wanted, I would probably buy it. They work and still have the feel of an Italian gun.

The Tikka LSA-55 in 12ga and 222 was marketed here in the USA with that LSA-55 designation. As I said, I had several that were branded LSA-55.

http://www.bluebookofgunvalues.com/...R_MFG_COMBINATION_GUNS_LSA_55_TURKEY_GUN

I'm pretty reliable, and I am not one of "those sites".

Curiouser and curiouser!

They were stamped LSA 55? Where were they stamped? Do you have any photos of them stamped LSA 55?

Who marketed them as LSA 55?

As far as I'm aware, they were introduced by Tikka as the M67 in the late '60s, and the M07 from about 1970. A few were imported into the US under the Tikka name in that period.

In 1972 Ithaca picked up the US rights to the M07, and sold them in the US as the Ithaca Turkey Gun from then until about the end of the 70s.

These guns were stamped with the Ithaca Gun Co name on the receiver, like this:



but not marked "LSA 55" on any I've seen (this is actually one of the Gunbroker ones you linked to).

Ithaca also sold the LSA 55 (the bolt action), as well as the long-action version, the LSA 65 under the Ithaca name in this period. Here's an ad:



Ithaca ads often had both the Turkey Gun (under that name) and LSA 55 (ie the bolt action). They were also listed under those designations in publications like Gun Digest. I grabbed a couple of examples:

1975 Gun Digest:



1977 Gun Digest:





By 1980 Ruko Sporting Goods was bringing them in, under the Tikka Model 07 designation again. Here's 1980's Guns Illustrated listing:

[img]http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...strated%201980%20p%20188_zpsfcbtwwua.jpg[/img]


According to the information I have, they continued to be marketed and sold under that name in the US until they were discontinued in about 1984.

I'm certainly open to learning more though - especially if if you have examples stamped LSA 55, or contemporaneous marketing material showing them officially designated under that name.

I don't need to provide material or research this. I OWNED two that were marked LSA-55 back in the 1980s. I also personally handled several others that were so designated.

Granted, the "Turkey Gun" has had several brandings and importers, and granted Tikka made a bolt gun they branded the LSA-55, but they also branded some of these as the LSA-55.

If you have big problems with my veracity it's not my problem, and I'm done with this topic.

The OP was asking about good starter combo guns, and the Turkey Gun Tikka is a decent gun for his purposes, although they gained little popularity in the USA.

Lets see now. I said this:


You responded with:



And now you seem miffed when I ask you about this. To the extent that "veracity" means "accuracy, conformance to facts", I think it was you who challenged my veracity actually, but I'm not the least bit miffed, just curious.

If these were indeed ever marketed as "LSA 55" that would be interesting, not least because that is a completely different model. If they were indeed “branded” (whatever that means) as LSA 55 that would be interesting too. The maker, the importers, the ads from the time, all the examples you’ve pointed to, don’t seem to be consistent with what you’ve said, but in the world of firearms stranger things have happened, so how is asking you for a bit more information causing you such a drama?

By “branded”, do you mean “stamped”. If so, where were they stamped? Were they also stamped with Ithaca’s name? Some other importer's name?

And when you say they were “marketed” as the LSA 55, do you know who was marketing them as such? Do you have any contemporaneous ads or other marketing material identifying them as LSA 55? There doesn't seem to be any around, though there's plenty identifying them as either Tikka M07 or Ithaca Turkey Gun, depending on who was doing the marketing.

Simple questions really. No one's attacking you.

What the Helll does "I owned two that were LSA-55" mean?

I'm not a liar, and I'm not interested in your obsession to prove I am. I bought two NIB that said LSA-55 on the box.

Tikka also made a bolt gun they called the LSA-55, but that proves nothing but the fact they named two guns LSA-55.

Ignore is sure good to have as an option here.

An excellent question. At this point the answer's not clear, and that is why I'm asking questions like "were they stamped LSA 55" - simply to understand what you are basing all this upon.



I haven't said you are a liar, I don't think you are a liar, and I'm not trying to prove that you are a liar.



Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks!

Was it just on the boxes? Do I take it that the guns themselves weren't stamped LSA 55? Or were they?



Well, the fact that they made a bolt action series called LSA 55 (and the longer action LSA 65) doesn't prove anything more than that they made those bolt actions. In the absence of something more - and that is all I'm asking you for - it doesn't prove that they called another, completely different firearm, by the same model number. Particularly when Tikka themselves say that the different firearm in question was called the M07.

Relax mate. I'm not attacking you. Maybe you are right, and I'm wrong. I'd just like to know what the facts are.

[/quote]

Having hunted in Vermont for 14 of the 22 years between 1968 and 1989, I sympathize with your situation. Like most Vermont hunters, I assume that you hunted a lot, but punched few tags. Our success in Vermont often came by way of shooting them from Monroe, NH, and killing them in Barnet, VT, just north of the junction of the Connecticut and Passumpsic Rivers.

I have never hunted in Connecticut and don't expect that I ever will. [/quote]
=============================================================
260 Guy

My deer hunting started in S.Vt where I got my first buck in 1953.
I had good luck there for many years and by the early 60's I had my own car and got the 'camp' in 1964.

There were bucks there in S. VT. then. I was able to climb the hills too and get one each year.

The forests grew in and there are not many there now. Of course we see one crossing a road or in a meadow now and then.

We found other places to hunt where there were bucks in VT.

Note that was over 60 years ago when I started there.

I see fewer bucks now in S. Vt and hunting is easier for old me here in Ct.

I don't recall any stamps on the guns themselves, other than a 12gauge and 222 Remington stamp on the left top.

The guns were sold to us by a jobber, I believe Adolph Blaich out of San Francisco at that time. I also remember catching helll from the store owner for placing the order, so I bought both at wholesale. I held on to them a couple years and sold them at double what I had paid.

The truth is for me to know and for you to quest after.

Correction...Blaich had their warehouse and headquarters in Reno NV at that time. They had a good supply of S&W handguns back then; the S&Ws were all on allocations and hard to come by.

Okay, so when you said:



...what you meant was that there was a time when you bought two of them from a wholesaler, and the boxes they were in said "LSA 55" on the outside.

I'm glad we got that sorted out. Time to move on I think.

Cheers

Yep, and it said "Turkey Gun 12ga/222Rem" on the end flap, as well.

Have you shot the bolt rifle LSA-55 much? How are they and the LSA-65 series?

Not a lot. They were popular in .17 when fox skins were bringing big money here in the 70s, and I remember trying one of those then, as well as having a try of one of the heavy barrel versions with the oversize black plastic bolt knob at the range. Nicely made, and very accurate, as I remember them. There are still a few kicking around here.

At one time our SAS, as well as the British SAS, used a heavy barreled version in .22/250 for the urban/counter terror sniper application.

You have to take what Simpson says is "good" as it's cracked or well worn but still there.

They do take guns back readily, but you're out your shipping back, even if they were misrepresented. Last fall I sent an "excellent" Sauer SXS shotgun and a "very good Sauer with only a little movement at the butt stock" back. Both had glaring and obvious problems, but I got two Valmet "412" combo guns that were really 330 series, which I knew going in, and a decent Husqvarva 146 8X57 rifle, all at prices that were about correct.

Gentlemen,

My dilemma is over--just bought a Savage Model 2400 online. 12ga/.222 Remington, very good condition. This model was at the top of the list from the beginning, and this was the caliber/gauge combination that I wanted most of all. More excited about this purchase than any in several years, don't know why this combo bug bit so but it did...I DO have more questions--promise to try to quit asking for so much help after this--what about scope mounts for this gun?? I see that there is a 2-piece Weaver system, and also a Sako mount; would prefer the Sako, does anyone know which one it is? And finally, is there a quick detach type available? Again, I PROMISE to stop all the questions after these, and I sincerely appreciate ALL of you who have taken time to reply.

It's the SAKO system. I just bought a good set of rings for it off FleaBay for $75.00. Expect to pay about that to around $120.00 for the ring set. Get the right type, and they work well as a QD type mount. They'll also have some windage adjustment built in.

I love my 2400 in 12/308. You'll love this gun. I recently gave my Valmet 330 series 12/222 to a good friend. The barrels from my 300 series 12/12, that 12/222, and my Savage 2400 all interchanged, testimony to the great Valmet quality control back then.

You made a wise decision! Rates a Two Cool...

I'll try to find a link to what kind I prefer.

Hope this link works

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161965047847

Thanks for the link, luv2safari, and all the advice you've given. Had a pleasant development this morning; the seller has had a number of 2400's over the years, and offered a set of original mounts at a price too good to refuse. So hopefully in a few days, I'll finally have one of these in my hands ready to scope and shoot! Again, thanks to everyone who replied to this post, you have all been a tremendous help.

Your going to love it for predator hunting, I'm down in AZ now and have been carrying the BRNO for preds. and have killed a couple with it. One thing nice you can usè a lot lighter load in the shotgun barrel as you don't have to try and stretçh it, the rifle barrel will handle the longer shots. I killed one at 39 long paces and another at 52 with 1 1/4 ounces of Nickle plated BB's.

Original post by jwf:

For over 50 years, I have used the Savage model 24 guns and found them to be excellent utility hunting guns for experienced hunters. They are not much to look at, but they work fine and they are accurate. I gave one to all my nephews when they started hunting.

I have owned a Ithica/Tikka "Turkey gun" that I bought new about 1976 or 77 when they first came out. It is chambered in standard 2 3/4 inch 12 gage over a .222 Remington. I've used it so long my eyes have changed and I had to scope it which I greatly regret having to do. It has been used for varmint hunting coyotes, for turkey hunting, and just about everything else on occasion. It is a nicely made and reasonably good looking combo gun. Mine has a really nice grade of wood on the stock and many of them do.

I've read the comments here about speed of follow up shots and safety issues with combo guns, and I do not understand any of them. The hammer and manual selector system are about as safe as you can get. The speed of barrel selection is almost instant and it is all a good hunter will ever need. But if you are accustomed to double triggers or recoil reset single triggers, it may be an inconvenience until you get the hang of using it.

Most of the prices for the Ithica/ Tikka gun I've seen lately run around the 1-K threshold you set for price. The Savage can be bought for less. The Bakal guns are plain, but work fine and can be bought new in your price range. I have several friends that use them and have no complaints with them.

Combination guns are most useful for a real hunter who knows how to hunt. They are not of much use to those who lack basic hunting skills. My younger hunting buddies (the sons of my old buddies) make fun of mine. They use whatever happens to be the latest new gear, usually some expensive, black stocked auto loader, and it seems like they get a new one every year or so.

But for those who know and have been around for awhile, combo guns are a top choice for field use unless you are hunting quail or some other specific game where a combo gun would be inappropriate. It does not matter what trigger or reset system used because those are just a matter or personal preference. Get yourself a combination gun of almost any flavor and give it a fair chance in the field and it will likely become one of your favorites. They are dependable and accurate and that is all a hunter requires.

Let us know what you decide to get and how you like it. Best wishes on how it works out for you.

Good 1st post.

We need more fanatics here.

Love your signature line about hunt with class and classics. AMEN!!!

Indeed we do

Well, received the 2400 last week and still can't believe the condition of this gun given its age. A one-inch area of slight discoloration on the rib at mid-barrel, a couple of safe marks only visible if the gun is held just right under good light, and VERY little evidence of firing. The only combos I had ever held before this one (combos of any kind are rare in my part of the country, don't even see them at gun shows) were the Savage 24's--the difference in quality is so much that I won't make a comparison--if you have held both, you know. I made a promise that I wouldn't ask more questions, so I won't; however, if anyone has any tips on sighting in/barrel adjustment, I'm all ears. Have a 1.5-5 Leupold on the gun in Super Low Leupold rings ready for sighting. Been holding and rubbing on this gun for a week now, can't wait to shoot it...budding fanatic, maybe???

They're great shooters, very accurate.

To regulate the rifle and shotgun to shoot the same place, adjust the sights to shoot to the shotgun barrel POI. Then, use the rifle barrel adjustments to shoot the same place.

There is a bit of windage adjustment in the folding rear sight. There are two very small screws that work as the sight pivots. You can loosen one side and screw the other side more to move it. BE CAREFUL. The rear sight is fragile, and don't over tighten. The front sight is stationary, but it can be filed down to shoot higher, or you might need to fabricate one (they are very simple) that is higher to shoot lower.

THE Barrel regulating screws are windage at the muzzle, and elevation at the center wedge. Any small change moves POI a LOT!

Congratulations!!