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Is anyone loading +P loads in the 35 Rem. for a 336? What velocity are you getting with 200 gr. bullets? What powder works best? I have seen 2300 fps on a friends Chrony. He says he is using H-4895. The cases show no signs of pressure and primers are not flattened. How high is the max? Jim <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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That�s a warm load.
I assume a 20� barrel?
A factory 200 grain .356 runs 2,322 fps in my 20� Model 94BB Winchester barrel.
The 200 grain Sierra round nose ahead of 49.0 grains of Winchester 748 runs 2,487 fps in my .356. This is a case-full of powder.
I don�t know what a �Max Load .35 Remington +P� is but I do know that any 200 grain load chronographing over 2,400 fps is a warm load in my .356 Winchester. I am pretty comfortable with 200-grain hunting loads that run around 2,350 fps from my 20� .356.
I wouls guess your friend is loading above 50,000 CUP.
Slim
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I was thinking that load may be on the wrong side of warm, I don't know what a max is either, but that sounds HOT! I have no experience with the 35 Remington, but I know they are factory under loaded for weaker guns. Bolt actions and Marlin 336s will handle higher pressure. The question is: How much higher?
As I said, his cases showed absolutely no signs of high pressure. Hmmm...?
I hope some one can enlighten me.
Jim
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The only .35 Remington I have ever played with was a 14�TC barrel. I have not seriously looked at .35 Remington rifle data. I do know that Layne Simpson wrote a piece for Handloader No. 98, July-August 1982. In this article Simpson explored some +P .35 Remington loads. In a Remington Model 760 with 22� barrel he pushed various 200 grain bullets to 2,350fps and higher. Simpson did not use 4895 but he did use Hodgdon 335, a similar burn rate powder, and got his highest velocities for the 200-grain bullet with it.
There are some threads on the Marlin Owners Forum where the +P .35 Remington is discussed.
Slim
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You might want to check out the ones by Buffalo Bore Ammo. The owner is a good guy and might give you some good information while you are talking to him.
NRA LIFE MEMBER
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS
ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS!
"Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself."
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.35 Rem loads should send a 200 gr. bullet at about 2000-2100fps from a 20"bbl.
No pressure signs?
Q? Using new or already fired brass? Remember, brass fired but once already starts to harden. Expansion of web/rim may seem slight to none. Remember, straight walled cartridges notorious for hiding pressure signs till catastrophe is reached.
Hard to imagine a few more fps bein worth the risk
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This is a cartridge that I've always liked just how it is, shooting 200gr at 2000-2100fps. Never considered hot-rodding this one. As Mak said, it ain't worth it. If I wanted more, I'd use my 35 Colonel or 348. Just me---2MG
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.35 Rem loads should send a 200 gr. bullet at about 2000-2100fps from a 20"bbl.
No pressure signs?
Q? Using new or already fired brass? Remember, brass fired but once already starts to harden. Expansion of web/rim may seem slight to none. Remember, straight walled cartridges notorious for hiding pressure signs till catastrophe is reached.
Hard to imagine a few more fps bein worth the risk I believe the question was about 35 Remington +P loads. Did you mis-read? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Probably not dangerous in a Marlin 336 or a Winchester 70, but probably too dangerous in almost any Remington 8/81 or 14/141. Certainly too dangerous in any Standard semi-auto or pump.
Jeff
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The +P loads that have been listed on the Marlin owners site are around 2200 fps for a 200 grain bullet. That seems to be about the max.
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Alright, I'll hold you by the hand...
1) this is baseline bullet weight an velocity. It'll give u an idea of how far above factory loads you are venturin.
2)Its hard to imagine another few hundred fps turnin this cartridge into the latest short magnum.
3)You need to worry first about strength of your brass. Assumin your 336 is in exellent condition, it has a 100% safety margin at 40,000 psi, you can certainly cut into this margin, but its there to provide for catastrophic events-the higher you go-the less protection for you the shooter an any others around you.
4) The .35 Rem is one of those 100yrs. old cartridges that sticks around cuz it works as designed. The magic level for levergun rounds of medium bore is 1900-2100fps. More velocity does not translate into a deadlier cartridge.
Finally, keep in mind that after a point, more velocity is redundant at levergun ranges.
Good luck n good shootin
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I average 2250 fps with RL-7, 200GR corelokt, rem cases, CCI primer. I am above max but load is safe and accurate in my 336. If you lose your accuracy with the vel increase, it's not worth it!
cavey
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I average 2250 fps with RL-7, 200GR corelokt, rem cases, CCI primer. I am above max but load is safe and accurate in my 336. If you lose your accuracy with the vel increase, it's not worth it! Thank you Caveman You answered my question consisely and to the point. If you routinely get 2250 fps from your +P loads then the fellow that I saw at the range who is getting 2275 - 2300 fps in his Marlin 336 is not so far overloaded. I know nothing about his loads or accuracy only that he said he used H-4895 powder. Your information combined with his cases that I examined leads me to think that he was probably well under 50,00 psi. I was thinking that someone on this thread with a computer reloading program such as Quick Load may have an educated guess on max loads and pressures. The question is academic anyway, my 336 is in 30-30 cal. and I don't use +P in it. Thanks again for a good response. Jim <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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My Powley Computer says....
20" barrel,
40.0 gr of IMR 3031 gets an estimated 2,293 fps at an estimated 49,431 PSI (equates to CUP).
I think I would use Hodgdon Benchmark if I were looking at this. I have used Bench mark a bit in the .356.
Slim
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Worked up a couple ladder charts on quickload. 200gr bullet at 2300 fps looks feasible at 40K lbs-psi.
Cartridge : .35 Rem.
Bullet : .358, 200, Hornady SP 3515
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.525 inch or 64.14 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : Accurate No.2520
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.136% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-11.4 90 39.00 1993 1763 26555 5387 83.9 1.361
-10.2 91 39.50 2021 1814 27564 5486 84.7 1.340
-09.1 93 40.00 2050 1866 28616 5583 85.5 1.319
-08.0 94 40.50 2079 1919 29716 5679 86.3 1.298
-06.8 95 41.00 2108 1973 30866 5774 87.1 1.278
-05.7 96 41.50 2137 2028 32070 5867 87.8 1.258
-04.5 97 42.00 2166 2084 33329 5958 88.5 1.238
-03.4 98 42.50 2195 2141 34646 6048 89.3 1.218
-02.3 99 43.00 2225 2198 36026 6135 89.9 1.199
-01.1 101 43.50 2255 2257 37473 6220 90.6 1.180
+00.0 102 44.00 2284 2317 38988 6303 91.3 1.159
+01.1 103 44.50 2314 2378 40580 6384 91.9 1.138
+02.3 104 45.00 2344 2440 42232 6462 92.5 1.118
+03.4 105 45.50 2374 2503 44005 6537 93.1 1.098
+04.5 106 46.00 2404 2567 45851 6610 93.7 1.079
+05.7 108 46.50 2435 2632 47792 6680 94.2 1.059
Cartridge : .35 Rem.
Bullet : .358, 200, Hornady SP 3515
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.525 inch or 64.14 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.163% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-11.6 87 38.00 1991 1761 27677 5279 82.1 1.342
-10.5 88 38.50 2019 1811 28684 5381 83.0 1.321
-09.3 89 39.00 2047 1861 29733 5483 83.7 1.301
-08.1 90 39.50 2075 1913 30825 5584 84.5 1.281
-07.0 92 40.00 2104 1965 31955 5684 85.3 1.261
-05.8 93 40.50 2132 2019 33142 5782 86.1 1.242
-04.7 94 41.00 2161 2074 34373 5879 86.8 1.223
-03.5 95 41.50 2190 2129 35655 5974 87.5 1.204
-02.3 96 42.00 2218 2185 36993 6068 88.2 1.185
-01.2 97 42.50 2247 2243 38387 6161 88.9 1.166
+00.0 98 43.00 2276 2301 39841 6251 89.6 1.146
+01.2 100 43.50 2306 2361 41352 6339 90.3 1.127
+02.3 101 44.00 2335 2421 42941 6426 90.9 1.108
+03.5 102 44.50 2364 2482 44599 6510 91.5 1.089
+04.7 103 45.00 2394 2544 46330 6592 92.1 1.071
+05.8 104 45.50 2423 2608 48140 6671 92.7 1.053
The 220gr Speer looks to have potential above 2100 fps. With a BC over .3 it carries the freight quite well.
Cartridge : .35 Rem.
Bullet : .358, 220, Speer FP 2439
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.525 inch or 64.14 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : Accurate No.2520
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.25% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-12.5 89 35.00 1826 1629 24972 4822 83.5 1.471
-11.3 90 35.50 1855 1680 25995 4921 84.4 1.446
-10.0 91 36.00 1884 1733 27068 5019 85.2 1.422
-08.8 92 36.50 1913 1787 28190 5115 86.1 1.397
-07.5 94 37.00 1942 1842 29370 5209 86.9 1.374
-06.3 95 37.50 1971 1898 30606 5302 87.7 1.350
-05.0 96 38.00 2000 1955 31905 5394 88.5 1.327
-03.8 97 38.50 2030 2013 33268 5483 89.3 1.304
-02.5 99 39.00 2060 2072 34703 5570 90.0 1.282
-01.3 100 39.50 2089 2133 36212 5655 90.7 1.259
+00.0 101 40.00 2119 2194 37799 5737 91.4 1.237
+01.3 103 40.50 2149 2257 39470 5817 92.1 1.213
+02.5 104 41.00 2180 2321 41234 5894 92.8 1.190
+03.8 105 41.50 2210 2386 43094 5969 93.4 1.167
+05.0 106 42.00 2240 2452 45058 6040 94.0 1.145
+06.3 108 42.50 2271 2519 47134 6108 94.6 1.123
Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 4000 ft.
Air density : 0.068737 lb./ft�
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun / Ammunition : .35 Rem.
Bullet : .358, 220, Speer FP 2439
Bullet weight : 220 grains or 14.26 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 2149 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.311@V>0 fps;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
�Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds �
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2149 0.0000 2256 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 25 2092 0.0354 2138 -0.1 0.1 0.37 0.2 +0.7 +0.23 0.39
| 50 2036 0.0717 2025 +1.4 0.3 0.64 1.0 -7.5 -2.58 0.78
| 75 1981 0.1087 1916 +2.3 0.7 0.90 2.2 -8.3 -2.87 1.19
| 100 1926 0.1464 1812 +2.6 1.2 1.14 4.0 -7.3 -2.52 1.60
| 125 1872 0.1856 1712 +2.4 2.0 1.49 6.4 -5.4 -1.85 2.03
| 150 1820 0.2264 1618 +1.6 3.0 1.91 9.4 -2.9 -0.99 2.48
X 175 1769 0.2686 1528 0.0 4.3 2.34 13.1 0.0 0.00 2.94
| 200 1719 0.3122 1443 -2.3 5.8 2.77 17.5 +3.2 +1.08 3.41
| 225 1670 0.3570 1362 -5.3 7.6 3.21 22.7 +6.5 +2.25 3.90
| 250 1622 0.4030 1285 -9.1 9.5 3.63 28.6 +10.1 +3.47 4.41
| 275 1575 0.4501 1212 -13.7 11.7 4.05 35.4 +13.8 +4.76 4.92
| 300 1529 0.4983 1142 -19.1 14.0 4.45 42.9 +17.7 +6.08 5.45
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Montana, That is exactly the information that I was looking for. It doesn't sound like the guy at the range was overloaded as much as I had believed. The 35 is somewhat like the 257 Bob, underloaded for some reason but capable of some respectable preformance. Thanks for your efforts in finding that info. Jim P.S. This may cost me money, I'm getting interested in a 35 Remington for myself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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I had a Marlin 1895 in the late 1970s, shoulda kept it, but that's another story.
Anyway, the 45-70 was cool, and recoil was fairly fierce. Of late, I've been mulling a hunting rifle, and being a southpaw, leverguns, pumps, single shots, and semiautos all offer possible options.
I've been doing some comparative analysis of 45-70, .444 Marlin, 44Mag, and 35Rem. Properly loaded, the 35 Rem looks like it can deliver decent power and trajectory to 200-250 yards, with moderate recoil.
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Montana
That is some great info to have, could you possibly run that program with H-4895 for both the 200 and 220 gr. bullet.
I have chronoed one load that uses h4895 that average about 2290fps and one shot did go over 2300fps, I had no pressure signs and figure pressure should be right around 40000psi(cant remeber if it is psi or cup off the top of my head). I had better accuracy at around 2250fps so I backed it off.
I also have a load using the 220gr. speer and it runs about 2140fps, I really need to chrono some buffelo bore to see really how fast it moves those bullets from a 20" tube.
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I've been doing some comparative analysis of 45-70, .444 Marlin, 44Mag, and 35Rem. Properly loaded, the 35 Rem looks like it can deliver decent power and trajectory to 200-250 yards, with moderate recoil.
I have been thinking the same thing so now I'm out looking for a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington, too. I'll let you know what I find. Jim
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I've never been one for "hot rodding" a cartridge. In my book, if you want a 35 caliber leveraction that you can get 2400fps with a 200 grain bullet then buy yourself a Browning BLR in 358 Winchester.
Why risk safety when you could buy a new rifle?
My main stay deer rifle is a 7x57 Mauser. I am very happy with 2600 fps using 154gr Hornadys or 2350 fps with old 170gr Sierras. If I wanted more I could always go Magnum.
Just my 2 cents.
Dan
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