Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 ... 11 12 >
Topic Options
#1448080 - 05/23/07 04:17 PM 458 Winchester Load Development Results
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 3448
Loc:
Here is what I came up with. I appreciate the advice posted here in March and would appreciate any comments or criticisms, especially from those who have shot game with any of these bullets.

CAUTION: These are my loads in my rifle using my chronograph. They may be dangerous in yours so work up slowly.

Elephant bullets: The 450 grain North Fork was highly recommended. I preferred the Barnes 450 grain monolithic. Both have flat meplats, like Elmer Kieth revolver bullets, which are said to penetrate better than a round nosed bullet. The Barnes meplat is 7mm in diameter and the North Fork 8mm, a small difference. But the North Fork is much harder to crimp because the crimping grooves are so small and close together. The North Fork may group a little tighter but not enough to bother with. Velocity was about the same.

450 grain vs. 500 grain Barnes solids: The nose is identical. Many people recommend the 450, which I decided to use because the recoil is noticeably less. Some say the 450 penetrates deeper because it yaws less at close range. However, with AA2230 I can get adequate velocity with either in my Model 70.

Powders: AA2230 was recommended for 500 grain bullets and H4895 for 450 grain bullets. I concluded that AA2230 is better for all bullets. It's denser and you can get more in the case. Also you need less because it is a little faster burning. For instance, even with the 350 grain Hornady bullet, 80 grains of H4895 got me 2370 fps vs. 77 grains of AA2230 yielding 2500. I will use no other powder unless someone thinks AA2230 is very temperature sensitive.

These loads seemed very good and non-maximum. All grouped 2" to 2.5" at 100 yards (and my bench technique is not so good with this rifle) except the Hornady seemed a little worse.

72-AA2230-500 Barnes solid 2220 fps for elephant

73-AA2230-450 Barnes solid 2320 fps for elephant

73-AA2230-450 Barnes TSX 2275 fps for non-dangerous stuff

77-AA2230-350 Hornady SP 2510 fps for non-dangerous stuff

All but the Hornady load comfortably exceed 5000 foot pounds. I don't know whether to take the 350 Hornady or the 450 TSX for my expanding bullet load. All four loads shoot to about the same aim point at 100 yards but I have not yet shot them at 200. The 350 grain bullet's higher velocity might let it drop less, but its awful ballistic coefficient might give the advantage to the pointed TSX.

Bench shooting technique: I always wear a heavy leather padded High-power coat made by Creedmore. In this case, I folded up a towel and placed it over my right shoulder inside the coat as well. I grasp the rifle firmly with both hands. This makes bench shooting tolerable. Recoil is less obnoxious than my 300 Weatherby Ultra-Lightweight, which has a nasty habit of cutting my finger with the trigger guard if I'm not careful.

Don't trust loading manuals: At least two prominent manuals list 78 grains of AA2230 as the maximum load for 500 grain bullets. So I loaded a few with 77 grains. The first one chronographed 2376 fps but, funny thing, the bolt handle was hard to lift! I shot no more of these. BTW: If I take the Hornady load on safari, I will probably cut it to 76 grains, just on general principles.

A sensitivity test: I ran this with H4895 and 450 grain Barnes solids. One shot was fired at each charge weight. I then smoothed the data with a second order polynomial to get a smooth average. Charges and velocities were:

72 2210
73 2220
74 2230
75 2250
76 2290

I suspect this indicates sharp pressure rises after 74 grains and I would use no heavier charge.







_________________________
"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take someone else's money." Thomas Sowell

Top
CI16728
#1448268 - 05/23/07 06:16 PM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: IndyCA35]
AussieGunWriter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 4921
I had my .458 out on Sunday chronographing a few loads.

350gn X over 78gn of H 4198 = 2582 fps and cases fell out of the chamber.

400gn X 74gn H 4198 = 2434 fps slightly compressed
76gn H 322 = 2380 fps

450gn TSX 72gn H 322 = 2381 fps mild and slightly compressed
68gn H 4198 = 2359 fps mild and most accurate load

I think the .458 is one of the most underrated big game cartridge we have, as it can be loaded down to .45/70 loads to handle deer and light game or loaded up to 2050 fps with 550 grain bullets and do it all. I also like the 300 grain X bullets loaded to 2650fps usig 75 grains of H 4198 and used this a lot for feral culling.

AGW
_________________________
What I offer, is yours to keep, yours to use, yours to ignore. The freedom to choose, is what matters to me most.

The only way to improve a .30/06, is to clean it once in a while.


Top
#1448431 - 05/23/07 07:46 PM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: AussieGunWriter]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 17271
IIRC the flat meplat helps hold direction better and better penetration follows as a result.
_________________________
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett

Top
#1448730 - 05/24/07 02:38 AM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: toltecgriz]
MoccasinJoe1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 266
Amen to that. You may wish to try 72.0 gr H4895/450 TSX very accurate in my Mauser action

Top
#1449046 - 05/24/07 08:00 AM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: MoccasinJoe1]
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 6954
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
Lots of folks get 2100 plus with the .458, but you cannot do that without "compaction" or 100% plus loading density, therein lies my complaint witht the .458 Win. If I were inclined to use it these days (have used it in the past) then I would punch it out to a Lott (easy to do) and shoot it at 2200 FPS.

The 458 has time and time again failed on its supporters, what does it take to convience the populace it is a poorly designed round that can and has, got hunters in trouble. When it works its very good, but when it fails its very very bad.

But in the end, it is up to each of us to make that decision, and then we must live with it.
_________________________
Ray Atkinson
www.atkinsonhunting.com
ray@atkinsonhunting.com
208-326-4120

Top
#1449283 - 05/24/07 09:59 AM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: atkinsonhunting]
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 3448
Loc:
I don't think compaction is any problem with the .458. The loads I listed are not compacted very much, including the one with the 500 grain bullet above 2200 fps.

I am familiar with the old stories about WW748 powder clumping together after laying around the tropics for years, but that's far different from AA2230 fired maybe two months after loading. I don't use WW748.

I used to use a really compacted H4831 load for 1000 yards at Camp Perry, Ohio, using a 30-06 with 190 grain MatchKings. It gets a lot hotter and more humid at Camp Perry in August than it does during the usual hunting months in southern Africa. I never had velocity changes due to any compaction, which I am certain would have showed up at 1000 yards.
_________________________
"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take someone else's money." Thomas Sowell

Top
#1449758 - 05/24/07 02:46 PM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: IndyCA35]
JPK Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 782
I'm guessing Ray's comments are based on experience predating some of the best powders for the 458wm. I have no compaction issues with my elephant loads at all, either with 500gr Woodleighs at 2135fps using AA2230 or 450gr North Forks at 2190 using H4895 and both loads offer plenty of penetration.

Indy, I used 500gr Woodleighs over AA2230 this past September and October on several elephants and noted no temperature issues. Temps were over 100* many days. But my load is lighter than yours I believe.

BTW, my objections with AA2230 and 450gr North Forks were somewhat inconsistent velocity and dirty barrels. Since my rifle shot the 450gr North Forks better with the H4895 at sufficient velocity to get the job done and some and left no residue in the barrels I went with it. My rifle is a double rifle so getting the barrels shooting together is the overriding goal once performance citeria are reached.

I believe the truncated cone shape of the North Forks is what provides their amazing performance. But, as I believe Peter has confirmed, I am sure the Barnes will do all that you need.

JPK


Edited by JPK (05/24/07 02:47 PM)

Top
#1452233 - 05/25/07 06:14 PM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: JPK]
MoccasinJoe1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 266
This very afternoon I shot one of my handloads of 72.0 gr H4895/450gr TSX into a dried an knotted ash stump. I was using it as my chopping block to split firewood. Then I split the stump with a sledge and wedges to look for the TSX. If I knew how to post pictures I would post one of it. Picture book expansion and though I didn't weigh it as my scale goes to just 350gr it looks to be perfect 450 grs weight. This is after 17" of boreing thru knotted dried ash. I can hardly wait to drive one into the vitals of a dugga boy \:\)

Top
#1453245 - 05/26/07 08:59 AM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: atkinsonhunting]
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 3448
Loc:
Ray,

Regarding compaction, I just loaded some 458 Winchester rounds with 73 grains of AA2230 and 450 grain Barnes TSXs, WW cases. COL was 3.34 inches, which is what is recommended.

With this load there is no compaction. Powder density is just about 100%. With this load I get almost 2300fps and comfortably over 5000 foot pounds of energy.

I therefore have to agree with some others: The .458 Magnum is indeed an underrated cartridge.
_________________________
"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take someone else's money." Thomas Sowell

Top
#1454486 - 05/27/07 12:43 AM Re: 458 Winchester Load Development Results [Re: IndyCA35]
458Win Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 2541
Loc: AK peninsula
A lot of folks are still hung up on a few bad reviews of older 458 Win ammo. If they would actually try loads with powders like AA2230 they would see that the 458 Win indeed does equal - and often best - the old nitro cartridges that they dearly love.
After fifty years, the 458 is better than ever and a true big bore classic.
_________________________
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

Top
Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 ... 11 12 >


Moderator:  RickBin, SYSOP 
Support Our Sponsors 1
Who's Online
709 registered (12savage, 12344mag, 10gaugemag, 1100mag, 95 invisible), 1456 Guests and 327 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Support Our Sponsors 2
Forum Stats
51381 Members
72 Forums
652590 Topics
9383659 Posts

Max Online: 4830 @ 12/01/14 06:45 PM
Support Our Sponsors 3










Copyright © 2000-2015 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.