Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Good hearing protection

Thanks Rocky. Now I just need to find a place locally that can make them for me.

-Dan

You're welcome, again. PLEASE keep all of us posted, as a service to all future "Huh-ers" among us.

fwiw,
Not a bad suggestion but they can lead to ear infections. Been there and experienced that. Twice. Have seen it far more...

Regards, Matt Garrett.

RockyRaab, I recall reading (somewhere) that it's still best to use a muff over plugs. The claim was a fair amount of energy can get to your inner ear through the skull and the soft flesh around the ear. Anything to this?

I'll also point out another way to limit hearing damage when hunting with firearms: use no more than enough gun. A .44-40 will kill a deer if the range is modest; you don't have to use a .300 Wea at such ranges.

Matt, the silicone used by EAR is non-porous, Ph neutral to skin, inherently anti-bacterial and is non-hygroscopic. They are many times less likely to induce ear infections than foam plugs. While I have heard of isolated cases of infections in people who use molded plugs, it is extremely rare, and may have been caused by other factors, such as water in the canal after bathing. Sticking a dirty finger in your ear to "scratch" it is THE number one cause of outer ear infections - and nobody ever remembers doing it. Not denying that infections can happen, just saying it's extremely unlikely that molded plugs cause them.

2525, the skull does indeed transmit sound, but it is very inefficient. Only a few percent of total sound gets to the inner ear via bone conduction, and even at that, the entire skull transmits it, not just the mastoid bone area. You truly hear through your nose, both through bone conduction and through your eustacian tubes directly to the middle ear. The only people who warn about mastoid conduction are muff manufacturers; might be a connection there? That said, I'll never say someone is using too much hearing protection. If you choose to wear muffs over molded plugs, I salute you. I do that myself when I shoot indoors.

BTW, the NRR values are not additive. That is, if you use a NRR 21 muff over NRR 23 plugs, you do not get 44 Db of protection. The actual NRR of such a combo would likely be about NRR 28. It is just about impossible to get an NRR over about 33, no matter what you wear, due to that bone conduction aspect discussed above. Sound gets to your ears from your entire skeleton, making complete sound protection impossible.

I use disposal plugs and cheap muffs but the dang muffs are uncomfortable against the rifle stock.
With all the post's I have probably missed this part. Can I get an In The Ear plug with same protection as now without spending over $100?

Thanks for the help. This is a good thread!!

Dave

You did miss it, Dave. You can get custom-molded in-ear plugs for $50 to $150, depending on material, seller and options. There's a phone number for E.A.R. Inc earlier in the thread to find your nearest dealer, and you can explore all the various materials and options at www.earinc.com

If some of it makes your head spin, please feel free to email or PM me at ANY time.

Raab,
I'll be sure to tell the Doctor he is mistaken the next time we shoot. He shoots, and has shot, Sporting Clays for years, as well as Skeet for the Navy and was the one to tell me when he saw me wearing them a few years back... Being a duffer I went with his suggestion because he was a Doctor, an active shooter, and I had had two recent ear infections...

I've been around the block when it comes to hearing protection due to extreme invasive tinnitus. Shooting related. Wore hearing aid like "maskers" that produced a white noise for 5 years with modest sucess. The Jastreboff protocol combined with meds allowed me to get a little sleep. Oddly enough mine came from hollow fill McMillan stock and not improper hearing protection. The vibrations would be transmitted from the barreled action to the stock and directly to my ear through the jaw bone. I could increase the ringing by dry firing that rifle. Kelly McMillan is aware of the problem and will provide a .250" piece of foam at the request of the customer. I never shoot one anymore without an Eagle Padded Cheekpiece. The heavier fill stocks have a fraction of the problem...fwiw & imo.

Regards, Matt.

Thanks Rocky. I just didn't know if a in the ear product would work as well as the double protection I am now using. ? .

I have experienced the vibrations, only mine go to the muff and then to my skull. One reason I want to ditch the muffs.

Dave

Oh Matt, yes, tinnitus is a real b1tch. I've had it for 50 years, and can vouch that neither shooting nor flying jets made it any better. Sigh. My wife is a teacher of the deaf, and even though she knows about tinnitus intellectually, she never seems to be able to grasp what it means physically 24 hours a day.

I'm not arguing with the doctor (is he an ear doctor or some other flavor?) because I'm not one. But I have served more than 15,000 earplug customers and believe I have something of a handle on molded plugs. Within that context, I still say that outer ear infections directly CAUSED by wearing molded plugs are rare indeed. The actual cause is almost always something else - like that pinkie in the ear thing.

Thanks for all the info. I'll be sure to pick up some custom plugs when I get back to the U.S. (and shooting) again. I always disliked wearing the muffs (over foam plugs) anyway.

Rocky,
He is a Navy ENT and a good one. I've gone through enough of these doctors searching for help that I can usually seperate the wheat from the chafe. Does not make him infallable, however, I stopped wearing the inserts and the ear infections went away. He also diagnosed a spasm in the tensor tympani muscle, in the inner ear, that was actuated through neck tension that lead to spikes in my tinnitus. Something no other specialist brought up... And I've been from The Southeast Tinnitus Clinic(now EVMS), Duke, to Dr. Shemesh at Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem just to name a few... The latter pioneered their treatment due to IDF Soldiers experience concussive hearing loss during duty. None have proven a silver bullet, however, taken together after ten years I'm now able to function relatively normally...

You know if there is anything I think we as a community can agree on it is the necessity of the best hearing protection available. I've run just about everything on the market and find them all to be a trade off. That said the expense and misery of severe intrusive tinnitus is a health threat that I think many shooters underestimate. They have no clue how bad it can get...fwiw & imho.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

http://www.earinc.com/p1-electronic-minicanalreg.php

This appears to be the "Mini-Canal" that Rocky was talking about.

I've been wearing Peltor 7's for several years and my hearing is still getting worse but I suspect it's tinnitis and that nothing can be done about it.

Rocky... Is this the unit you recommend for shooters?

Can you still get them and make a few bucks for yourself if we order through you or should we order online direct or ????

$bob$

Matt, it will come as no surprise to you that adult-onset tinnitus is a major reason for suicide. To the rest of you, yes, it IS that bad.

LD, I do recommend the Mini-Canal - or whatever other electronic plug your budget will support. They're all good to unbelievable. (The top-line Digital Two-Way has a setting that cancels wind/rain noise as well as blocking shots - but allows other sounds through. I call it the VooDoo plug, because I can't imagine how it does that. But it does!)

As always, buy the best you can possibly afford.

Have just started to use electronic plugs while hunting. But, have trouble in determining the direction sound is coming from. Any advice?

Battue

You are wearing two of them, right? If so, the key may be as simple as turning the volume down a bit. The most common tendency is to crank 'em up to "really hear what's going on" but that also distorts your brain's long-acquired sense of distance and direction. You should also balance them: rub your hands together near each ear and slightly adjust the volume until they both sound equally loud. (Hint: do that both with AND without the plugs so if you have a natural imbalance, you can duplicate that with the plugs in.)

Other than that, it's mostly a matter of giving your brain time to re-learn the significance of what it's receiving through this new input source. In short, just wear them a lot.

Thanks, that seems to be the case. Also different volume settings for each ear seems to help.

Battue

Great! PLEASE keep the board posted about your experience with them. We can ALL benefit from saving our ears.

Rocky,

Thanks for your advice on hearing protection. Didn't know if I could locate an E.A.R. dealer near my home on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula or not, but low and behold there was one just down the road about 4 miles. So I went over to his house tonight and obtained my first set of Insta-Mold ear plugs. Man did the room get quiet when he placed the mold material in both ears. All I could hear was that background ringing (tinnitus). I look forward to using these in the effort to protect what's left of my hearing. I already have the Peltor 7S muffs, which I'll use over the Insta-Mold plugs when shooting at the gun range. That way I can turn the Peltors up to hear conversation but when the rifles goes off, I'll have both units helping to protect my hearing.

Only problem is, now you've got me considering the electronic (digital) molded E.A.R. units. And they are expensive!

Yes they are. But as I always say, only you can put a value on your hearing. If the ability to hear is only worth a quarter to you, then use twenty-five-cent earplugs. But if it's priceless...

The look on people's faces when I fitted them with molded plugs always gave me a kick. Until that moment, you really never know how good an earplug can be, and it's absolutely startling.