#2195909 - 05/10/08 08:50 PM
For those interested (22 hornet)
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Bill_I
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Southwestern NY
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yet still may not reload.
In the varmint rifle reloading forum I posted a terminal ballistics test with photos I conducted with the 22 Hornet & three bullets.
Regards,
Bill
_________________________
"I ain't as good as I once was but, I'm as good once as I ever was"
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#2221549 - 05/26/08 12:44 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: Bill_I]
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tuck2
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Registered: 12/05/04
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Since one can get a 221 Fireball rifle why would anyone get a Hornet ??
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#2221722 - 05/26/08 06:40 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: tuck2]
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Seafire
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1718
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
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Since one can get a 221 Fireball rifle why would anyone get a Hornet ??
For a reloader, I have the same question when one can get a 223... cheaper brass.. more commonly used...
both the hornet and the fireball have all the velocity you really need... so then, why not just load a 223 to those specs and be done with it...
a rifle in 223 will also sell a lot quicker or trade a lot quicker...
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#2221785 - 05/26/08 07:31 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: tuck2]
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Bill_I
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Southwestern NY
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Hi tuck,
For me and what I do as much as I like Fireballs both 22 & 17 cal, I don't gain anything over the 22 Hornet with them.
I mostly hunt woodchucks and with such sporter wt. rifles walk about position shooting along with using my shooting sticks. I don't gain any distance because even from sticks 150-200 yards is as far as I can shoot decent.
My 22 Hornets are under moa accuracy.......which is plenty. In fact the groups I see posted with 17 Fireballs are no better than my 22 Hornets.
The 22 hornet has a little less muzzle blast and uses less powder........very long barrel life.
I also call some fox with it.
So, there really is nothing for me to gain, in fact I loose a little for what I do.
There are lots of varmint calibers these days. Still, sometimes I think they had it right 60-70 years ago.........220 Swift, 22 Hornet, 22lr.......and a 12 gauge ;).......those old timers pretty much cover every possable varmint & predator situation one could possably need......and do it well.
_________________________
"I ain't as good as I once was but, I'm as good once as I ever was"
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#2222062 - 05/26/08 10:11 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: Bill_I]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 847
Loc: SW Montana
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Bill I: They did NOT have the 204 Ruger or the 17 Remington Fireball 60 to 70 years ago!
The 204 Ruger, especially, is a quantum leap forward in the Varminting World when looking for an all around Varminting cartridge!
They did have the 22 Hornet back then and for certain Varminting applications I use this caliber today but it can't do everything.
Dittoes for the 220 Swift! I use it on occasion but for all around Varminting it leaves a LOT to be desired!
I have dabbled with at least 8 Varmint Rifles in caliber 22 Hornet and to tell the truth I am about fed up with it - its temperamental and difficult at times to obtain GOOD accuracy with and its "niche" is limited!
I probably will never buy another.
The 220 Swift is a very intense cartridge and over the years I have obtained good to excellent accuracy with the many Swifts I have owned and own now (I currently own, load for and shoot 6 Varminters in this caliber).
If a good (VERY good) deal on a Swift Varminter came along I would be a player for it.
BUT if a good (VERY good) deal on a Varminter in 204 Ruger came along - DON'T get in my way!
This is THE caliber of the future as far as all around Varminting goes!
It does 99.9% of everything thing that needs to be done in the Varminting World AND does it exceedingly well!
Don't be tempted by those who espouse and profess "squib loading" ANY cartridge - this practice IS dangerous - and there are safer and more interesting ways to cover the spectrum of Varminting needs!
None of the MANY 22 Hornets I have owned, shot, tinkered with, borrowed or seen shot have been as accurate as my 4 (four) 204 Ruger Varminters and my 1 (one) 17 Remington Fireball ARE!
No, I heartily DISAGREE with your statement where you contend that the Rifles of 60 to 70 years ago are good enough ("had it right"), OR, where you post "those old timers pretty much cover every possable varmint & predator situation one could possably need......and do it well".
Those cartridges of 60 to 70 years ago can't hold a candle to the "newish" 204 Ruger - as just ONE example of a new and truly exceptional all around Varminting cartridge!
Examples please you may ask - okay I will provide!
Of late I have been shooting a lot of Ground Squirrels, Badgers and Rock Chucks while also calling and sight Hunting Coyote and Fox. Thrown in during the last few months have been spotlight, night Hunts for Coyote, Fox and Bobcat. The 220 Swift is simply way to much "gun" for Ground Squirrels and Fox! Recoil, barrel heat, throat erosion, overkill and ricochet danger are just a couple of reasons the Swift does not "shine" here. And a Swift touched off at night while Predator Hunting leaves the shooter recoiled out of scope sight picture AND the muzzle flash causes spots to appear in ones brain image!
The 22 Hornet does not have the oomph to catch up to and kill running Coyotes at 300 yards nor to instantly and reliably stop a running Badger before it gets to its den mouth! Ground Squirrel Hunting is for especially accurate cartridges and ones with FLAT trajectories - need I say more?
How about the aforementioned Rock Chucks out there at 350 yards on a windy day - the 22 Hornet is useless and the 220 Swift with its recoil is gonna knock your sight picture askew at the shot! This makes folow-up shots a little more difficult when needed! And one Rock Chuck I took out at 275 yards this past week had JUST its head peering at me from behind a lava rock! At my shot (with one of my 204's!), I SAW that I had hit the quarry and made the kill!
Couldn't have done that with a Swift!
Yet the 204 Ruger does do all of these type shooting tasks and does them exceptionally well.
I haven't even touched on the myriad of other attributes the 204 Ruger has - this posting was not intended for that - but I did feel it neccessary (as a long time user of both the 220 Swift and the 22 Hornet cartridges) to offer up another "set of observations".
Don't sell your Hornet and buy a 204 Ruger - just buy a 204 Ruger. And then you will see what the folks from 60 to 70 years ago COULD NOT DO!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2222128 - 05/26/08 11:03 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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tuck2
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Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 114
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I have had a Kimber Mdl 82 22 Hornet rifle for some years. I have never found an accurate reload for this rifle, best load about 1.5 inches at 100 Yds. I live and shoot in the wide open prairie dog country and I wont a rifle that shoots 0.75 inch or less five shot groups at 100 yards. A prairie dog pup weighs between 6 and 8 Oz and is about two inches accros the lung area. If I were shooting varmints in the ten pound class within 180 yards I could get by with a Hornet varmint rifle that shot 1.5 inch 100 yard groups. In the good old U.S.A. we have a lot of different shooting conditions. Over the years I have learned how to adjust the trigger pull, glass bed actions, free float barrels and have had gunsmith lapp bolt locking and recrown muzzles on some rifles. Years ago I learned to reload ammo because years ago hand loaded ammo was for more accurate than factory ammo. This year I ll be shooting the 17 rimfires, 17 Fireball, 204 Ruger, and 221 Fireball before the prairie dogs get spookey . No rifle or round is perfict, I keep looking all have some limits.
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#2222626 - 05/26/08 04:55 PM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: tuck2]
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Bill_I
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Southwestern NY
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Little over kill in reply there huh guys (chuckle).
He asked and I answered ....... was just my .2 cents as noted. Not looking to argue.
My Hornets shoot at / under .75" average multiple 5 shot groups / in good conditions.
One thing I can tell you in reply to your .204 comment. 220 Swift's and 22-250's sure hit Woodchucks a heck of a lot harder at all ranges than a .204 does .......yet the .204 is just as loud. Maybe the 220 Swifts & 22-250's are over kill on P-Dogs as compared to .204's but, .204's are under kill down range compared to the varminter & swift on Woodchucks......thats a fact. The recoil / sight of impact differance is small and has more to do with the guns wt. scopes power and shooters grip or lack of. In fact I didn't even notice a differance with a H.B. .204 on the range or in the field on Chucks. I am sure its there but its not a "wow factor" there... and more spliting hairs there......which is exactly what many varmint calibers do in reality......"split hairs".... None of them offer the sight of impact of a 22 Hornet or rim mag even in sporter.
My last statement was a reflection.....nothing more. It did not suggest I live & die it. But, for here it holds some truth.
For what its worth I think the .221 Fireball is a great caliber.........ditto for the .222
Wonder how the old timers ever managed? (grin)
There is always a reason just not always a need.......
Edited by Bill_I (05/27/08 04:32 AM)
_________________________
"I ain't as good as I once was but, I'm as good once as I ever was"
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#2222757 - 05/26/08 06:14 PM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: Bill_I]
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Gmoney
Campfire Guide
Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 3952
Loc: Houston/Mason TX
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Bill...
Take the post in question with a grain of salt...
If "making sure the target stays in the sight focus after recoil" is a requirement or a must in choosing a varmint cartridge then I guess we're all idiots.....grin...
I LOVE the .204 but the Swift is more better at killing, period...
_________________________
-Greg
Take a kid hunting, it's good for us all.
Personal field testing trumps everything no matter what Field and Stream says, what your degree of perceived manhood is, or what your buddies think.
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#2222765 - 05/26/08 06:21 PM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: Bill_I]
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flashhole
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Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 132
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When I bought my small case 22 I went with the Fireball. I knew I'd be handloading for it and the robustness of the case was what sold me on it. It's easy and economically friendly to load. Powder selection is great (1.3cc Lee Dipper Cup of RE#7 is my choice) and the 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are as accurate as they are deadly. I picked up the Remington 700 in Light Varmint Stainless Fluted (LVSF) and replaced the flimsy synthetic stock with a Boyds Thumbhole Laminate. The new stock turned this thing into a tack driver.
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#2226977 - 05/29/08 05:59 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: flashhole]
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Tod
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 5320
Loc: Helena MT
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Bill_I, I'm not sure what it is, but every time I take my K-hornet out shooting, I get the same comments from people like 'why not 223 or 204'?
If I wanted to shoot 204, I'd buy one. I have multiple 223s. But for moderate ranges, the hornet does the job very well with a low report and half the powder of a 223.
One might as well ask 'why 38 instead of 357 or why '7mm-08 when you can get 7mm RUM'?
The correct answer is 'because I like hornet'.
_________________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P. J. O'Rourke
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#2230363 - 05/31/08 01:06 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: Tod]
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tuck2
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Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 114
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We all have rifles and cartridges we like the best but I dont expect any one else to like what I like. Since 1949 when I got my first rifle there has ben a lot of new rifles and cartridges to try out. Most all of them will work for someone.
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#2230681 - 05/31/08 08:33 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: tuck2]
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RockyRaab
Campfire Guide
Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 4044
Loc: Ogden, Utah
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I love my Hornet. I also have and shoot a .17 Bee, a 218, a 219, a 221 and a couple of 223s. Truly enjoy them all - mostly because they are NOT 22-250s or Swifts. No kick, no bellow, just fun shooting and something falls over dead. Hard to beat that, really.
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#2230799 - 05/31/08 09:57 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: Bill_I]
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leomort
Campfire Regular
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 846
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA area
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Surprise that you can use ARs to hunt with in NY. Semiauto rifles & handguns illegal to hunt with in Pennsylvania. Plus most of those ARs are pretty hefty, especially considering their compactness.
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#2240214 - 06/05/08 10:59 AM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: RockyRaab]
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OUTCAST
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 2010
Loc: Hongry Gulch, WV
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I love my Hornet. I also have and shoot a .17 Bee, a 218, a 219, a 221 and a couple of 223s. Truly enjoy them all - mostly because they are NOT 22-250s or Swifts. No kick, no bellow, just fun shooting and something falls over dead. Hard to beat that, really.
A man after my own heart. If I want bellow and kick I jump from the .223 to a 6mmRem and a 25/06 get plenty of both and more range to boot.
O
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#2255443 - 06/13/08 10:12 PM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: OUTCAST]
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coyo
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 597
Loc: land of OZ
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Id get a hornet cause hornets are real cool and real deadly out to 200-250 yards,runs on about 10 grs of powder and is probably the most efficient center fire round out there.........
_________________________
Matthew 7 13-14,Wide is the road to destruction and many there shall be found upon that road,Narrow is the path to eternal life which will be found by very few...........where are ya headed there fella!
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#2256543 - 06/14/08 05:49 PM
Re: For those interested (22 hornet)
[Re: coyo]
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Tod
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Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 5320
Loc: Helena MT
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And that rimmed case is dandy for drop blocks.
With all the bullets I stockpiled, plus brass that lasts a long, long time if tended to properly, I can shoot my K-hornet for less than I can buy 17 HMR. I can still buy 40gn Sierras for about $13 per hundred, brass is about half the cost of 221 or 223, and it uses half the powder - well over 500 rounds from a single pound.
Per round, that makes it about
$0.03 for powder
$0.13 bullet
$0.22 per case
$0.02 per primer
However, I can get 20 loading per case. Let's be conservative and call it 10. That averages out to about $0.02 per case per shot.
That's about $0.20 per shot, close to 17HMR. With a much heavier bullet.
Can you load 221 or 223 for $0.20 per round?
_________________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P. J. O'Rourke
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Don't need it but IMO it would give me the 3 most accurate best built 22 Hornet repeater rifles ever made (Winchester M-70 pre, CZ 527 & Browning micro). They just happen to all have .223 / .2235 bores 
