#2218251 - 05/23/08 04:14 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: logcutter]
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sportsfan7292
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Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 200
Loc: Willamette Valley, OR
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specs on the gun?
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#2218346 - 05/23/08 05:07 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: sportsfan7292]
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olhippie
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Registered: 01/02/06
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Loc: Georgia
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...Looks like one of Brockman's concoctions. That is a really beastie bear! Congratulations..
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#2218509 - 05/23/08 07:16 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: logcutter]
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VAnimrod
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Registered: 04/21/04
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Yep..The 45-70 loaded to it's potential is a marginal Deer cartridge..
Whomever said that about any .45-70 load, is a phuckin' idiot......
_________________________
The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms ... the palladium of the liberties of a republic
3 J. Story, Commentaries §1890, p. 746 (1833)
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#2218601 - 05/23/08 08:12 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: VAnimrod]
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ULA24
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I'd rather have the 375 any day of the week over any 45-70 lever rig. A poor hit with the 375 is a poor hit. If you want to play lever toting cowboy, there are better venues than dangerous game hunting.
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#2219300 - 05/24/08 10:26 AM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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natman
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I'd rather have the 375 any day of the week over any 45-70 lever rig. A poor hit with the 375 is a poor hit. If you want to play lever toting cowboy, there are better venues than dangerous game hunting.
If you prefer the 375, that is certainly your prerogative.
However using a 45 caliber 420 flatnose at 1850 fps is hardly "playing cowboy".
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#2219546 - 05/24/08 02:45 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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logcutter
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Registered: 02/06/04
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I wonder why you even posted on this other than to bash the 45-70?Hey-times have changed since the old 45-70 Government and if you had a clue,you wouldn't knock it.
 "This grizzly was killed in Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Park in the Eagle Nest Mountain Range of Northern British Columbia. He squared over 8 feet and the skull measured 23 13/16'', which is very good size for an interior mountain grizzly bear. When I shot the bear, he had started a charge from about 70 yards away, and by the time I had a sight on him, he was 40 yards. The 540 Hammerhead hit him right between the front legs, and he did a complete front-wards flip after the bullet hit him. That bullet completely penetrated him lengthwise and exited. I made a follow up shot (which was unnecessary, just instinct) after he rolled which angled through the chest, took out a section of spine, and exited the top of his skull (if you look closely at the photo you can see the exit hole in his head). Very impressive bullet performance." - Tyler Serle, Albuquerque, British Columbia
Jayco
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#2219682 - 05/24/08 05:21 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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Oldelkhunter
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Registered: 09/28/04
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I'd rather have the 375 any day of the week over any 45-70 lever rig. A poor hit with the 375 is a poor hit. If you want to play lever toting cowboy, there are better venues than dangerous game hunting.
Why would someone even post crap like this when the man has visual and written proof of what he just did with the rifle ? Just Unbelievable.
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#2219746 - 05/24/08 06:12 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: logcutter]
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GuyM
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Registered: 07/29/07
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I think this kind of thing, big North American game at modest range, is where the big bore lever gun truly shines. It's not exactly a new idea either - simply part of the story, along with the good old .348 Win and the "wildcats" it spawned. The .45/70, properly loaded, is one heck of a short-mid range thumper. I'm very impressed with the results these bear hunters achieved.
logcutter - you've played with a lot of different bullets from the .45/70 and you know I've been doing the same lately. What do you think of some of the "premium" jacketed bullets for this sort of thing as opposed to the awesome hardcast bullets? I sure was impressed with the way the 350 grain Swift A-Frame behaved...

Regards, Guy
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#2219947 - 05/24/08 08:45 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: GuyM]
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ULA24
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Plenty of people feel the same way I do. Read the 45-70 slamming threads over in the African forum. I have a Marlin 45-70, but I wouldn't hunt brown bear with it, when there are clearly far better options available.
The guy finished off a wounded bear with a 45-70, so what.
On a once in a lifetime hunt, why handicap yourself with a mediocre tool?
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#2219991 - 05/24/08 09:28 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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GuyM
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"when there are clearly far better options available"
Wow - I dunno 'bout that. Even good ol' Colonel Cooper held the .45/70 Marlin in high esteem as a big bear rifle. I've only fished and backpacked in brownie & grizz country though, have never hunted them. I'd grab my Marlin in a heartbeat for the hunt though - if it was to be at modest ranges.
I just don't see this stone reliable, surprisingly accurate, fast-handling big bore lever gun as a "mediocre tool" nope - not at all. Like any relatively low-budget production rifle, it could use some smithing to get it in fine shape but the basic package is pretty impressive. And heck, I'm a bolt-action nut job!
Regards, Guy
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#2220003 - 05/24/08 09:40 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: GuyM]
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ULA24
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Hey, if you like it use it. I just was annoyed by the fact that the original post made it sound like the 45-70 cleaned up a mess that the 375 couldn't handle, at least that was my take. It's your hunt and it will be in your memory forever, so use what you really want to use. I just happen to think the 45-70 is a poor choice, but that is me.
As for Cooper, come on. I don't question his pistol credentials, but I can think of tons of people with far more hunting experience than him, including plenty of people who post here.
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#2220029 - 05/24/08 10:23 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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GuyM
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Well, I've sure got nothing against the .375 H&H mag! Hard to knock a cartridge with that track record. Loved the American Rifleman article on Finn Aagard and his .375 in Africa. I used to read all his articles. Huge respect for the man and his work, and the cartridge he used so well over the years.
Edited to add - it's all pretty academic for me anyway. I manage to fish Alaska every few years, but hunting brown bear there? Out of my pay grade! I'll have to settle for whacking game here in Washington with my .45/70 - and there's nothing here that's a real challenge for the lever beast.
Regards, Guy
Edited by GuyM (05/24/08 10:25 PM)
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#2220336 - 05/25/08 08:14 AM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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logcutter
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Registered: 02/06/04
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Loc: Central Idaho
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ULA24
I just posted the exact quote from the Bear Guide the way he told it and I made no comment on the mighty .375 at all.His words,not mine.We really don't have to go there,do we,as we all know that Brownies can soak up the lead sometimes,regardless of the caliber.Seems a year or so ago,the same thing happened with the Guide getting mauled by some "Bad Shooting" from a .375 H&H.I would love to own one,someday.My choice over the .338 Win Mag but I already have a .300 Win Mag that handles everything Idaho has with ease.
Guy
I used to love to test bullets out of the 45-70.Between myself and another feller,I think it covered about every bullet used in the old warhorse in ballistic jell and my favorite,right into solid rock and gravel..Shows what a bullet might do in the worse case scenario.It blew most if them to smithereens "except" the North Fork and Barnes 300 XFN and even the Nosler survived but all others were shrapnel.
The 350 A-Frame is a classic as is the 350 Woodleigh(depending on impact velocity) and the North Fork.On average,the good bullets penetrate around 18+ inches in wet newsprint and ofcourse the 300 Nosler exceeds that to an average around 26".
A bullet like this is hard to ignore.The 350 North Fork shot into a rock and gravel bank at 2100 fps+ out of my Guide Gun. 
In answer to your question,I don't know which is best..Penetration and expansion(jacketed) or complete penetration from any direction with a 45 cal hole and much larger wound channel(Heavy Cast). It's hard to argue against either.
Jayco
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#2220452 - 05/25/08 09:30 AM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: logcutter]
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ULA24
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Registered: 02/25/01
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Fair enough, I guess that I misunderstood and thought the 375 was getting a bashing.
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#2220732 - 05/25/08 12:41 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: ULA24]
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Klikitarik
Campfire Guide
Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 2789
Loc: Alaska
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My first bear was taken with a 375 H&H at 125 yards. My most recent with a 45-70 chambered Ruger #1 at 246 yards. The first took five shots, not all solid. That last one a single shot DRT. I could make "hay' out the two different scenarios I suppose. The bigger, and more important point, I think, is that bears can take a lot of punishment from some very adequate weapons and bullets. I think that is what is meant by the comment about the bear not being stopped by the 375. A few anecdotes prove little, but make supported suggestions. There is little doubt in my mind that a lever action 45-70 is better in a few ways than the typical 375 H&H (for bears). There is also little doubt in my mind that the 375 is better in more ways than is the 45-70. Overall the 375 has more plusses. That in no way diminishes the fact that the 45-70 is actually very well suited and one gives up little, if anything, to bring one on a very expensive bear hunt.
To use the "once in a lifetime" argument against the Marlin 45-70 does not overcome that fact that many people come on their big expensive hunts with all the "right" hardware, but lacking the even more important factor - well honed skills. No amount of good guiding and expensive hardware can ever make up for the lack of proper prior homework. It looks like the guy with the 45-70 had his ducks in a row....whether the fellow shooting the 375 did or not is hard to say.
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#2220806 - 05/25/08 01:55 PM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: Klikitarik]
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the_shootist
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Registered: 05/21/03
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As usual, Klik, right on the money with practical, personal experiences. Thanks.
_________________________
Brother Keith
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#2223637 - 05/27/08 10:21 AM
Re: Garrets 420 Hammerhead Stops Wounded Coastal Grizzly.
[Re: the_shootist]
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AkMtnHntr
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Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 4074
Loc: Alaska
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Glad to see those Garrett's are getting the job done on the big grizzlies/brown bear. I'm hoping to post a successful report here myself with the 420 gr Garrett Hammerheads in my 45-70 XLR. I'm leaving the 375 H&H at home on this one as I plan on shooting a bear under 100 yards and the 45-70 shines in that department.
_________________________
Let your gun accompany you on your walks, the heft will do you well and it will ward off evil doers. Thomas Jefferson
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