#2229732 - 05/30/08 04:29 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: Jeff_O]
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Huntz
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Registered: 10/28/07
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Loc: N.E.Wisconsin
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By Sgt.Owens book on doping wind and reading mirage.Then shoot some Highpower to get your practicle knowledge.
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#2229762 - 05/30/08 04:49 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: Jeff_O]
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10at6
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Mirage indicates the general direction and speed of the wind and with a good spotting scope you can sometimes discern the approximate value of the wind. In long range (and sometimes at 200 yards) competition, mirage combined with feedback from the range flags,your call and location of your shot will yield a correction (or not) for your next shot. Mirage is highly variable depending on temperature, humidity, light, actual speed,the quality ofyour optics, and terrain. In my opinion it cannot be used in hunting situations to make proper shot placement with the exception perhaps of varmint shooting
Mirage from a piss poor scope is another topic in itself.
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#2230204 - 05/30/08 09:29 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: 10at6]
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kyreloader
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What power scope do you need to see mirage? How hot does it need to be?
Good topic, I too am interested in learning more about it.
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#2230245 - 05/30/08 09:56 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: kyreloader]
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Jeff_O
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My scope is a VXII 6x18; I can see it.
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More wag. Less bark.
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#2230487 - 05/31/08 06:06 AM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: Jeff_O]
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rost495
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Registered: 01/05/05
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Loc: La Grange, TX
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I've never used mirage to guess wind speed. I use it to confirm converging winds, changes, angle of winds etc... I use a meter to confirm wind speed, then focus the scope on different distances checking direction and apparent movement to factor what my speed meter has told me to start with.
I often come up with a parameter in my notes, and note what the mirage is like at the top and bottom end, such that when I finally start a shot, I know what to put on for correction so that the first shot is in the middle.
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2230734 - 05/31/08 09:06 AM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: Jeff_O]
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Klikitarik
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Registered: 08/12/03
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Since I no longer load "bullets" or "shells" into my rifles, but rather "cartridges," it is only fair that the term "scintillation" be used, rather than "mirage." And, actually, the full term is "terrestrial scintillation" if you want to be very specific, since there are many forms of scintillation.
Regardless what you call it though, both phenomena are real, and both involve air temperature differences which distort the way light behaves and make things appear different than they really are.
Some of the regulars here can clue you in to how to deal with it...
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#2231324 - 05/31/08 03:31 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: RickB]
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rost495
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Not a bad read except for not shooting in a boil. An old BR shooter taught me that, and I now will shoot as fast as I can in a boil, of course I'm not demanding a one hole group, but a boil is a no wind condition and get the shot centered and out of the barrel now before it shimmers and changes, also you have the best shot of having a minimal change if it changes up on you. Of course if you are shooting a boil in 25mph winds, its different and there I'd prefer to shoot in anything but a boil as a 1 oclock or 11 oclock value can kill the shot...
Other than that and not really explaining what to look for and how to determine what it means, it wasn't bad for simply trying to shoot a tight group on paper at short range. For long range it didn't say much.
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2231444 - 05/31/08 05:10 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: rost495]
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RickB
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Registered: 03/17/07
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Everyone gets different things out of something I guess. 
The procedure for reading the wind direction and speed and applying the proper corrections to the scope is the same no matter what range you are shooting at...and only practice, practice and more practice will make your "guesses" start to become more accurate, and the farther away your target is the more accurate those guesses need to be.
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#2232087 - 06/01/08 04:59 AM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: RickB]
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rost495
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I guess I was bad at trying to say this... what I meant was it was geared to shooting a group basically, not going in depth about what to look for for that all important first shot.
I am fairly sure what drew me to service rifle in the first place was that it was not nearly as much of a gear game as it was shooting, and that most true service rifle matches give you no sighters so you HAVE to understand whats going on for that very first shot, just like in hunting.
But you are so true, its experience that gets one there, only that at the onset its so intimidating that you simply think you'll never get there.
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2232161 - 06/01/08 06:24 AM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: rost495]
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RickB
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I'm not much of a "group" shooter either.
Accurate shooting, whether groups on paper or game in the field, is always going to be a guessing game to a certain degree...that's what makes it fun.
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#2232236 - 06/01/08 07:24 AM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: RickB]
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rost495
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I could almost care less in matches after the first shot, as long as its centered I'm totally happy for the day basically.
Its always guessing, its just that learning the conditions allows one to come up with outer parameters that is the judgement call for taking the shot or not.
I have to take the shot in a match, dno't have to in the field. Its satisfying to ignore others comments in a match, formulate your own idea on wind, and decide WHEN to start your string, and have the first one center up in the MOA x ring.
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2235312 - 06/02/08 06:41 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: rost495]
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Jeff_O
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Registered: 04/21/07
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Wanted to say, this thread is helping me already. I've been up shooting LR twice since I posted this. I'm now seeing the mirage a little better. I think. I'm visualizing it as a general "trend"; I seem to be able to see which way the wind is blowing the light.
I have also been able to time the shot, as Rost has mentioned, to where there's minimal movement.
Wierd stuff!!
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#2236960 - 06/03/08 04:20 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: Jeff_O]
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rost495
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Thats the huge plus of the scope.... you can see what its doing, IE is it changing, while you are shooting. I only shot irons in competition out to 1000. That meant what you saw in the spotter could and did change while you were aiming/shooting, I had my own methods to keep from being slapped while on iron sights... but my downfall was not being able to sense the wind letting up a bit, I had a knack about being able to feel/tell about pickups and had flags/trees/grass/dust to watch for direction issues(not speed issues) while aiming/shooting. So I simply chose to shoot in increasing conditions rather than waning conditions...
Once you realize its not the whole thing in mirage you are watching, but simply an indicator, one that can look different from day to day or minute to minute.... you move along much better. It still shows direction changes and speed changes, but the "thickness" of it can vary a LOT... don't let it overwhelm you.
You have to shoot, see a change, and either correct and shoot again or shoot and think.... it should end up 9 inches left... and if it DOESN"T, what happened. You learn 2 things this way. First you learn what you are missing, IE looked the same but the shot was out(assuming its not you) and almost better yet, learn what different mirage that means the same looks like, IE you think its gonna move you that 9 inches, and shoot(uncorrected) and its slap dab in the same place, not 9 inches out... You have to realize what you saw that you thought was different, but really was not.
Do you have any kind of survey instrument in the real estate business? If it has cross hairs and can be set up on a tripod, you can learn a LOT just setting it up and locking the cross hairs on a range pole or simply a small tree or sapling. Watch how it appears that the crosshairs move as the mirage changes, and when it goes back to the same they "move" back to being centered.
Mirage does a few things. First mirage itself displaces the actual target, so the "thickness" of the mirage gives an initial displacement, thin and not heavy, it wont' move it much, thick and deep it moves it a fair amount. I always factor in .5 to 1 moa extra if mirage is thick at 600 just due to the apparant movement... Second it indicates speeds, mostly you are seeing it speed up and slow down, not so much that X mirage = X mph. Third it indicates wind direction changing.... want to find the exact direction the wind is coming from or going too.... turn your spotting scope around a circle, IE 360 degrees, you find that the mirage can go from thick to thin or heavy to light(word definitions your choice) until you hit a boil(waves mostly going up and down and no left/right movement) and where that boil is on the clock thats were the wind is coming from or going to.
As you spin around and if you know the wind is a constant speed, you see how the cross depth of the waves changes, much like real water waves, and its indicating directional changes... those waves closer or further apart are indication of direction in my mind... Its how the wave "tops" lean over or how far they lean over that indicates speed.....and speed changes.
For game, I'm still much into the groove of picking a condition, setting up for it and firing, or waiting for it to come back, as said I'll note some parameters off my chart and for example if I note that 1mph change in speed is only 1 moa or so, I know I can see a 1mph change in speed and also know to wait or it or favor the shot an moa one side or the ohter, but if its more than that, wait or recorrect. Most don't realize at all how much work a long shot is. I still say becoming proficient at a 200% odds long shot takes more work than learning to hunt/get closer. But many will argue that to death. I've been down both rodes... I have my stubborn opinions.
Jeff
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2237262 - 06/03/08 07:00 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: rost495]
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Jeff_O
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 6746
Loc: Wetter'n Oregon
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Great post. Much appreciated. Pearls of wisdom, there.
My first reaction: sounds downright... psychedelic! If this was 20 years ago and I was still in college I'd "inhale" and go spend about 2 hours rotating that spotter around and soaking up the subtleties.
:-)
As it is, I'll have to go on a hike and get tired enough to make myself sit long enough to really try to see what you are talking about. Sounds very, very cool. What a neat thing to find out- that the air and light interact, and that a person can tell things from that!
Thank you, always appreciated from you and everyone else who takes the time to help us noobs!
-jeff
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More wag. Less bark.
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#2237355 - 06/03/08 07:34 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: Jeff_O]
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rost495
Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8968
Loc: La Grange, TX
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When I started out I was learning to read mirage from folks telling me what to do... it was ok, I'd won a few 600 yard stages. One thing that really helped was finally learning to shoot... if you are still flubbing shots, learning is much harder as it is not true meaning vs the result of the hit.
Once thats under your belt you have to realize the 3 major things it tells you. How bad does it offset the target, what direction and is it picking up or letting off.
Then you realize that unless you have a drastic change in conditions, IE bright hot sun to cool overcast, the initial look at how 'thick' it is sets my offset for me.
Then you have to pick up direction, and its indicators can be more than mirage only. But looking for the boil is a big plus/verification, I'll spin my rifle around real quick the direction I THINK its coming from and verify.
Then I'm watching things like grass, leaves, trees, and the mirage to check directional. As I said to me its much more about how thick it looks and is it thinning or getting thicker, that tells me direction is changing.
The whole time you have to watch how far it leans over or how fast the waves are running, actually both in a combo, to determine if its getting faster or slower.
Now to be really clear, its as simple as that, you can get lost in it easily, but if you'll set up your digital wind speed meter next to you, and just watch it through a spotting scope and watch your meter, it helps you learn what a 1mph or a 3 mph difference looks like, IE if you see it changing, but the meter says its the same, go back and look, is it light or temp changing the offset portion of it, or is it thicker or thinner as in a directional change. Then when you watch and see it running faster or slower, look up and verify its really changing speed.
One bottom line to this is at much over 10mph its about worthless for speed changes, IE it gets what we call flat lined, leaned over and running fast, and its worthless, actually I can use it most times to about 15mph. And amazingly enough, IMHO thats about all the wind I'd ever want to take a live animal shot at, at whats considered mid to long ranges. So it works out.
I've done some shots around 500ish give or take, that were over 15.... I did not like the results..... they were vital shots but I also was a bit more off than I'd like. As such my personal ideas limit longer shots to slower wind speeds. Now as I hunt more and shoot less, using magnums and good bullets instead of my 223s.... it gets easier and I can take more wind, but its a continuing education.
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2249462 - 06/10/08 07:26 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: rost495]
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boatanchor
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Registered: 11/11/06
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Just to add something to Jeff's good posts and something to consider,
A while back me and my nephew went to a 1000yd informal shoot. I was my nephews spotter so I had my spotter and his to look at while he was shooting, the sun was at a perfect angle so that I could view the bullet trajectory (vapor trail or whatever you want to call it). I had one spotter on the target and one spotter on the apex of the trajectory. the mirage on the apex has a lot more to do where the bullet is going to go than the spotter looking straight at the target.
B
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#2252299 - 06/12/08 08:55 AM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: boatanchor]
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CGPAUL
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Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 333
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I learned just as much from spotting as shooting. When on the line you may have five relays to contend with..I always made sure I watched what was going on, by watching the shooters in front of me. An excellent way to gain experience. Most shooters on this site can`t do that, unless they shoot with a partner, or are competive shooters. I always tried to shoot the condition, which ment I set up my shot first shot with a particular look of the marage. For me, it worked. Some shooters liked to adjust befor each shot. I get lost in keeping up with my windage dope. The best I ever shot at 6 was a clean with 18x`s. Conditions were very stable that day, eventho I did have wind on.
This is a complicated issue, IMHO, and in which experience definatly helps, but is not fool-proof.
A hunting situation calls for ethical thinking by each of us befor we break the trigger.
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#2253633 - 06/12/08 08:45 PM
Re: reading mirage
[Re: CGPAUL]
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seth
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Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 5
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If you want to read the mirage, you need to be reading it about 3/4 the way to your target. Focus your spotting scope in on your target, then back the focus ring 1/4 turn counter clockwise. This will allow you to read the mirage at the correct distance.
You have 4 Classifications of mirage as follows:
Boiling mirage ( heat waves moving straight up and down)
No Value wind- 0 mph
Slow Mirage ( heat waves moving 11 to 5, 1 to 7)
Quarter Value wind 1-3 mph
Medium mirage (heat waves moving 10 to 4, 2 to 8)
Half value wind 3-7 mph
Fast Mirage (heat waves moving 3 to 9, 9 to 3)
Full value wind 8-12 mph
the mirage can only be acurately read up to 12 mph because the heat waves are already moving horizontal. At that point other observation methods should be used.
1-3 mph- wind barely felt on the face, causes smoke to drift
3-5 mph- lightly felt on the face
5-7 mph- keeps leaves in trees in constant motion
8-12 mph- moves dust and loose paper
12-15 mph- causes small trees to sway
20-25 mph- Causes large trees to sway.
Hope that helps.
Edited by seth (06/12/08 08:47 PM)
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